Province Border Definition (Run-off)

[Shaitan]

I am not making Bohemia the capital province, FortyJ. It has been the capital province since the game started.

 

[donsig]

With the vote so close (14-11) I wonder if it is wise to call this one even though it has reached quorum and 48 hours have passed. Perhaps we should give it till Monday and see if any more votes are cast.

 

[Shaitan]

Unfortunately, that would be illegal as the poll officially closed already.

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by Shaitan
I am not making Bohemia the capital province, FortyJ. It has been the capital province since the game started.

Someone more clever than I could probably argue that Bohemia was, in fact, all of our lands and that by acceptance of this poll, it no longer exists. The fact that the borders for Bohemia were never established throws the whole issue into doubt.

Nonetheless, I know that Fionn does not wish to govern over just Bavaria. Personally, I wonder who would... His talents and experience are more suited to a larger province. I think you should offer him his choice of provinces, lest you risk estranging him.

I would think that with your dedication to progress and desire to have skilled people throughout our government, you would want to have someone as valuable as Fionn in a position where he can do the most good.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
With the vote so close (14-11) I wonder if it is wise to call this one even though it has reached quorum and 48 hours have passed. Perhaps we should give it till Monday and see if any more votes are cast.

Maybe I am a little confused here, but isn't it ridiculous to close a poll before the time limit has expired because enough people voted to reach quorum? What about people who do not access the forum everyday? Are we trying to remove all influence from these citizens? A poll must be open for 48 hours, regardless of when it reaches quorum. It is different with cabinet votes, because we know how many people have votes, and at a certain point it becomes final.

Note: I realize this one has closed already because of the time limit.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Shaitan is correct. Bohemia has in fact been defined. Prior to the passage of this poll, it did include all cities in our nation.

The people have chosen to define the provinces further, and that is within their right, however it is clear that Bohemia was the first province and is now defined by our first city.

Fionn is a good governor, and it may well be a waste of his talents to manage only one city, however, there are other ways to addess that. Let us not trash our laws for one persons needs.

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Excellent point, AJ. I hadn't considered the problem of Leader advancement making a whole. That could be cleared though by having those positions defined as not being governors. These deputies would not be part of the Senate as they are not actually governors. The Leader positions would be defined to manage the respective cities in the event the Deputy position was vacant so the deputies rising to Leader would not leave a vacuum in city management.

Tie the responsibility of governing the capitol province to the position (ie. the standing VP or standing Domestic Deputy). If and when that individual is promoted to a leadership position, then the new deputy or VP would inherit the responsibilty. If there is concern about the legislature, let's make Bohemia a district (ie. no senatorial vote) and therefore not part of the legislature.

 

[Shaitan]

@eyrei - It didn't close before the time limit expired because there's no time limit on it. The poll conditions as stated in the first post were 48 hours and quorum so the results of the poll were 14-11 at closing.

@FortyJ - Yeah! That's what I was trying to say.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
Shaitan is correct. Bohemia has in fact been defined. Prior to the passage of this poll, it did include all cities in our nation.

I have great respect for our Chief Justice but I do not agree that Bohemia contained all of our cities. That issue is certainly open to interpretation. Had I remained on the bench and this issue had to be reviewed I would have ruled that only Bavaria was legally in Bohemia.

This poll is now 14-13. Without getting into whether these last two votes count or not I think we have seen enough to know that our provincial borders selection process has serious flaws. Here we have a poll that has been declared legal and binding yet is very controversial. On top of this, some of us now realize that we won't even get to elect governors for these provinces. Seems like we did not learn our lesson from the first demo game. The key to avoiding this whole mess was to define our provinces in advance which we failed to do.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by donsig


I have great respect for our Chief Justice but I do not agree that Bohemia contained all of our cities. That issue is certainly open to interpretation. Had I remained on the bench and this issue had to be reviewed I would have ruled that only Bavaria was legally in Bohemia.

This poll is now 14-13. Without getting into whether these last two votes count or not I think we have seen enough to know that our provincial borders selection process has serious flaws. Here we have a poll that has been declared legal and binding yet is very controversial. On top of this, some of us now realize that we won't even get to elect governors for these provinces. Seems like we did not learn our lesson from the first demo game. The key to avoiding this whole mess was to define our provinces in advance which we failed to do.

Two quick points:

I defined Bohemia by what I saw submitted as instructions by the governors, and it included all cities. I know that is imperfect but...

To your last point. The provincial design system in this game has been an abomination pure and simple, and those imperfections far outweigh the problems we face on implimentation.

 

[Almightyjosh]

I still think the essential point has been missed. Why do we want a one city province? Why was it proposed? Because we didn't want one province to be dominant and reap all the rewards of low corruption like Istar and Asphinxia (restrains self from breaking into 'Asphinxia, How I Love Thee'). However, it would seem that by using the 'wedge' theory we can have not totally uneven provinces and still have the capital as part of a larger province.

In a well meaning move to make sure no province is disadvantages, we have created a USELESS 'province' that no one will EVER want to Govern!! I've said it before, I'll say it again. The problem is not uneven provinces, or the capital being in one province, it is having only one province anywhere near the capital! Neither A nor B had this problem, and it seems the result of ludecracy to select an option that so stupidly renders an entire province worthless and undermines the whole 'equal province' thing we were shooting for in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!
(deeeeep breath)

 

[disorganizer]

It was a mistake to define a province from the start. We did definitely NOT hav a province and thus no senate... But as we urgently wanted a senate, a virtual province bohemia was generated, which never really existed because it in reality was the whole nation.

 

[Chieftess]

Even though B is better, I abstain, since I like neither of them.

 

[Eklektikos]

Chieftess: The question was "Which do you prefer?", not "which do you like?". Should've voted for B

 

[Chieftess]

Well, I prefer none of them.