Proxy wars

[Robbert]

First let me explain what a "proxy war" is, according to dictonary.com it is:

Main Entry: proxy
Pronunciation: 'präk-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural prox·ies
Etymology: Middle English procucie, contraction of procuracie, from Anglo-French, from Medieval Latin procuratia, alteration of Latin procuratio appointment of another as one's agent
1 : the act or practice of a person serving as an authorized agent or substitute for another —used esp. in the phrase by proxy
2 a : authority or power to act for another b : a statement or document giving such authorization; specifically : an oral consent or written document (as a power of attorney) given by a stockholder to a specified person or persons to vote corporate stock
3 a : a person authorized to act or make decisions for another <appointed a health-care proxy> b : something serving to replace or substitute for another thing

Now in civ terms: Say that there is a civ that is bothering you, for example they have oil, but they don't trade it with you, but with another country. In civ3 you would have to conquer them to get your hands on the oil. But lets say you don't want to do this for some reason (there half way around the world, or your busy somewhere else).

But what if you could get a friendly country to attack and conquer them, and then trade the oil with them? You would have an option in the diplomacy screen that is able to convince your ally to declare war on that country, but that won't make you declare war!

You would keep your hands nice an clean and still get the oil. Offcourse you would need to bribe your ally to do this, they won't go to war to get you oil or some other resource luxury. You would need to give them money/recources/terrirory/whatever to make them accept.

This would give alot of new fun strategies, keep your closest enemy busy by keeping them at war. And you should be able to give your ally weapons (units) and money "secretly" so they have a better chance.

Say you play as the Americans, and your closest rival Russia is catching up with you. The russians have begun a war to expand, and are fighting germany. The germans are losing, but you give them secretly 20 musketman, and a heap of gold. This will make the germans able to fend of the russians. The russians are now in a trench warfare, eating up there resources, units, and money.

Again you keep your hands clean, no messy war, no planning for invasions, no stockpiling units. You just give your ally what you can spare, and they do the dirty work for you.

Comments/suggestions?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

are there any examples of this ever happening?

 

[dh_epic]

Many examples.

More in the modern (post industrial) era.

http://www.adbusters.org/jams/history/flash.html

 

[majk-iii]

...say if the persians are mad at you, because your evil and have broken trades or burned cities in the past... u could secretly sponsor a local warlord to take power and act as a puppet to u, without any other civ's "knowing" why, the persians are now trading like crazy with you and even going to war to secure resources for you... all though both civ's get a lot of unrest (unless youre fascist or communist) ...and your proxy-king might get kicked out (like the shan) , or turn on you (like saddam or noriega)

 

[Robbert]

It would be a cool feature if you "sponsored" a local dictator to invade one of your enemy's and when thats over he could use the weapons you supplied him to invade other country's (which you don't want). A classic dictaror backstabbing that happens to much in the real world.

Maybe he could even turn against you and use the weapons you supplied him against you.

 

[Colonel]

What about a vietnam type scenerio, could that happen, like Germany funding one side of the war and America funding the other half,

So Persia vs China-----Germany funding Persia and America funding china

Or could there be double funding, So America gives Money to both sides to keep the war going

or Funding threw a third party, it would cost a little more but it would be America gives France money for china, france keeps X percent and this would make it harder for you to get caught

 

[rbis4rbb]

How could u defend against it

 

[dh_epic]

This is the essence of a cold war. For two nations to be at peace officially, but fighting each other for control of the world by proxy.

All intuitions about war and peace follow.

 

[Robbert]

Yes, just as it was between the USA and the USSR in the real world, the USA fought in vietnam to prevent it from becoming communists and the USSR provided the north vietnamese with weapons, funds, and training (correct me if im wrong about the training). And the USA funded the afghans in the USSR/afghan conflict.

This option could be easily implemented for the player, but im unsure if the AI could handle this feature. We all know that the AI in civ3 were relentless backstabbers, your best ally could turn on you in the blink of an eye without a real reason. We don't want in civ4 that your best ally is secretly funding enemy nations of you.

 

[t3h_m013]

and it was more complicated than just that. the chinese were involved to. I think most of the training came cfrom them having had already fought a geaurilla (never been able to spell that) war and russia and china werent official allies, just both pouring money into north vietnams army.

I would like it. the closest ive seen was a game where somone provided a weak neighbour with resources and money to fight a awr. but they still lost etc.