Psycho AI!

[Windwalker]

OK, I may be overdramatizing the title, but the following incident still struck me as pretty odd... It was my 2nd game on Warlord difficulty; I was playing as the Egyptians and I had the misfortune of starting out on a peninsula (which meant that I would have very few corruption-free core cities before the Forbidden Palace). Oh well. I develop somewhat slowly as there is mucho jungle around and my 6th-7th cities already have some fair corruption (being pretty far from the cap), and I meet my neighbors, the Romans to the north and the Americans to the east, at a time when they are stronger than me in every way. So they start demanding unfair trades, and I manage to bring most of them down to trades of World Map, with me offering a little gold. Buying a little peace, I think. However, as the game progresses, my civ starts to gain momentum, and I manage to get the lead in the Histographic scale right about when I research Monarchy way before everyone else. So I figure I can stop playing the whipping boy now. However, the Americans suddenly demanded an extremely unfair trade, which I refused. The next turn, Mr. Punk Lincoln, demanded TRIBUTE from me in the form of Monarchy. Hell no, I said, that's my one substantial advantage. The stupid Americans then declare war on me. OK fine, bring it on (and of course, here come swordsmen to my spearmen and archers. Gulp).

What really got me though, was that the next turn, the Romans demanded Monarchy in tribute from me. I told them to go to hell, and then THEY declared war on me. Then the Aztecs and Germans (who were pretty far away) both demanded Monarchy in tribute; again, when I refused, they all declared war on me! Again, I had an "average" military and I was the histographic leader, but 4 civs ended up wanting to make me their biatch, and then declaring war on me in one turn! What is up with that? Is this common? Did they take my initial weakness and use that as the basis of their future judgment of my civ?

BTW, I am happy to say that I managed to hold off those bloody American hordes and the Roman stragglers (rome wasn't doing so well this game), losing only two border cities. When I finally got swordsmen myself, I was REALLY mad and vengeful, as I was producing nothing but military units and the war was killing me. I figured I had nothing to lose, so I sent swordsmen armies to capture/raze some roman border cities (i got 3 total) and I fought a long protracted mountain war against the Americans that resulted in me taking New Orleans and me killing most of the improvements around Philadelphia and Houston (both were 6-12 cities). Rome came to ME for a peace treaty, and America let me have peace for a price of some gold. I am still at war with Germany and the Aztecs, who've been sending 1-2 units (usually archers) by boat every 10 turns or so. They want tribute and they ain't getting it! And I'm close to getting knights, so they all better watch it. Although I have no horses in my territory, I am going to steal it from another bloody American border city, which will restart the war, but oh well

This has been an odd, but really satisfying game in that Alamo sort of way... I really REALLY want to wipe the Romans and Americans off the face of the planet. If I happen to have access to saltpeter close to my territory...

- Windwalker

 

[rdomarat]

The AI is pretty agressive these days. If they think you're weaker than they are, they'll go to war or extort things from you without event thinking about it. I tend to give in to their demands early while I'm still expanding, but I put a little star beside the civs name in my Little Black Book (TM) for later.

BTW, its nice to see someone else with a post along the lines of "The AI kicked my ass. This game is going to be realy fun."

Reg

 

[Jimcat]

Opportunistic wars like the one you describe are actually pretty common. They tend to happen when civilizations have expanded to their furthest extent on a continent. At that point, you have a situation that I like to describe as "precarious equilibrium" (or, for those not addicted to ten-dollar words, a "powder keg").

The natural inclination of most AI civs is to expand. When the continent is full, the only way to expand is by war. But starting a war is risky. Everyone will be building up their military and looking for the right place and time to strike.

Sometimes, you can keep an entire continent in this state of armed peace for a long time. I am currently playing a game, as the Greeks, in which I shared a continent with the Romans, Aztecs, Babylonians, and Germans. Given that mix, I would have expected to see at least one war, but peace reigned over our continent until I discovered Navigation and made contact with the rest of the world.

Usually, though, some little incident will spark a war. Someone will demand tribute, or try to hike a settler across foriegn soil to that last piece of good land, or culturally hijack someone else's valuable resource. Someone might even start a war to trigger a Golden Age. Sometimes you will be the victim, sometimes the aggressor, sometimes on the sidelines. I've seen these wars start between two rival AI civs.

Once someone declares war, the balance is going to be disrupted one way or another. One or both of the warring civs is going to be weakened by the fight. If the aggressor completely overwhelms the defender, it will wind up much larger than it was. This will probably give it a huge lead over its neighbors, and no one wants to see that happen. So the other AI civs choose sides.

If there are no MPP's or alliances influencing matters, the first civ to join in will usually take the side of the aggressor. At that point everyone else's mind will be made up in the same direction. They can all see that it's an n-to-one battle, and they want to be on the winning side and claim some of the spoils. Presto, within a couple of turns you have an all-out continental war on your hands.

The best thing to do to avoid getting steamrollered in these situations (if you are attacked) is to have embassies in place, and quickly negotiate military alliances with your neighbors against the aggressor. Unless you've ticked them off in the past, the other civs will be just as happy to gang up on your enemy as on you, provided you make it worth their while.

If you'd prefer to avoid such a war in the first place, remember the old, but still true, maxims such as "the best defense is a good offense" and "let he who would have peace first prepare for war". Keep strong defenses in your cities, plus an "expeditionary force" of offensive units that can quickly counterattack. If you play your cards right, you may never have to use them. At the least, you can make sure that the war takes place when and where you choose.

Deterrence and diplomacy are powerful tools in this game for those who know how to use them.

 

[KithKhan]

Ya, the problem with the AI is it judges you based on your total number of military units. Which means that it will make demands of you regardless of the quality of your army or most importantly your GNP. So if you want to avoid threats -> war then just keep a larger standing army... just conscript a bunch of riflemen as soon as you can or if it's a problem early in the game build lots of spearmen and catapults and to some extent horsemen early on, they upgrade anyway so it's not like you're wasting produciton. If you have maybe 2/3 as many units as they do, it seems like then they'll show you a little more respect.

 

[KithKhan]

I realize that on regeant level and up keeping a standing army 2/3 as big as those monstrosities is easier said than done. (sorry, no way around it though) Hehehehe.

 

[Beamup]

In my experience, the only stable peace is, just like IRL,

Peace through superior firepower!

Unless you're more powerful than the other civs, they are definitely quite agressive. Good AI, IMO - if you have something they want and they think they can take it, they will. Just like a human. Sometimes they misjudge, but so do humans.

 

[cosyCloud]

I found the best strategy is NOT to give them ANY technology. Rarely trade for. NEVER give it to them. Sooner or later they will be in awe.

Try and negotiate some other kind of deal.

Give them money if they want it. At least till you build up of your forces so you can kick their butts.


Of course this may only work on the "Easier" levels.

 

[praestare]

It seems to me that to be on a war with other civs has a great discount for your strenth in AI's judgements. It happens to me several times that when a war broke out between me and another AI, some AIs jumped in against me.

Also, AIs are just plain crazy. Even if you have a dominant military power, they may still come request tributes to begin a war, however, with a smaller probability. One time I have 50 something nukes, and 100 something modern armors, around 150 mech infantries. German still come to me to ask for a war, and German even don't know how to build modern armors.

BTW, another interesting finding is that German, Russians are pretty hostil to Chinese, but French is the nicest civ to chinese people. I always ended up an alliance with French throughout the game.

 

[Windwalker]

Originally posted by praestare
It seems to me that to be on a war with other civs has a great discount for your strenth in AI's judgements. It happens to me several times that when a war broke out between me and another AI, some AIs jumped in against me.

Yeah that makes sense, which makes the snowball gangbang pretty common, I suppose... Although I've noticed that civs like Greece and France tend not to join in on these warmongering trips...

Originally posted by praestare


BTW, another interesting finding is that German, Russians are pretty hostil to Chinese, but French is the nicest civ to chinese people. I always ended up an alliance with French throughout the game.

I think it has more to do with civ traits than anything else. Expansionist and Militaristic civs tend to be pretty hostile to me whenver I face them; and yes, I love the French, they're usually pretty dang nice to me (relatively), no matter what civ I play. Vive la France!

- Windwalker

 

[Zouave]

As far as I can discern, that crazy AI always gangs up on the human, and it is unable to differentiate between a regular warrior and an elite legionary.

I just keep a couple of cheap warriors in my core cities and the best offensive units on the borders. The AI appears to count the total units; thus, I am well protected - either the AI won't attack, or, if he does, he will misjudge my strength and run into tough units on those borders.

 

[hoyatables]

Okay, I started out with the Americans on Large Continents. Got VERY lucky discovering techs in the goodie huts, and had a distinct lead. I am on the west side of the "large" continent, with Japanese to the north, Chinese to the East, Aztecs east of both, and Iroquois south of the Chinese. Romans, Egyptians, French, and two or three others await on the "small" continent, and the Russians are alone on a small continent south of the Iroquois.

So anyway, I had an excellent start - secured my empire's borders, have iron and horses and saltpeter, and a four-seven tech lead on all the neighbors. Four of the six ancient wonders, all of the medieval wonders with more in easy sight. Warlord level - I wanted to give expansionists a fair shake and not give up. Soon after discovering the other continents via Navigaition, I switched to Democracy. While in Anarchy, I noticed the Chinese start to muster Swordsmen, Archers, and Spearmen on the border. Then I notice a lot more - and they enter my territory. I'm worried, because I only have a couple of Knights - I was caught up in my super cities and realized I just have a musketeer per city for defense. The Chinese don't attack, but move closer to me. I move the Knights to the front, for some protection - accidentally I place one in their territory. They contact me on their turn as "polite" - I agree to move my troops, and they declare war anyway!!!!!

The Aztecs soon place a demand and jump in as well. After a few early rounds where the Chinese threatened through sheer numbers, I came under Democratic control, rushed some help, beelined for cavalry, and I'm just now striking back. To turn back some of their forces, I asked the Japanese and Iroquois for help - they happily obliged for Chivalry and other obsolete techs.

Moral? When you get strong, someone's bound to attack - particularly when you control the continental iron supply. So be prepared. Alternatively, get help.

In the case when they ALL gang up on you - it's because you are a lot stronger. So you should be able to hold your cities and/or rush protection. If you lose a city or two, so be it - focus on the others and you should quickly be able to produce some troops to get it back. Computer may have numbers, but you have a better brain.

 

[Zouave]

"When you get strong, someone's bound to attack - particularly when you control the continental iron supply. . ."


And that is precisely why the startegic resource values that come with the game are nonsense.

They are way too low historically (especially for iron and coal), and the lack of them forces toomuch war: either you have to attack to get them, or will be atacked by those who want them. And then if one suddenly vanishes NOBODY gets iron! :crazyeyes

Increase the values in the Editor and solve your problem. Make them a little less rare.