PTW: The downfall of Civilization
- Thread starter Nicosar
- Start date
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
So was Civ2 for that matter. It crashed and burned on my computer when it first came out. It seems that it wouldn't work if you didn't have a SB sound card (don't laugh, it was that uncommon at the time). It took them a few weeks to patch that and send out a floppy (this was the normal way to do patches back then, you wrote them a letter (on paper) and they sent you a floppy disk).
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
I guess their "website" on the "internet" wasn't up and running at that time? CG
Ayatollah So
the spoof'll set you free
Despite some huge advantages of Civ3 -- national borders, units which don't just evaporate when their home city is taken, improved trade -- I find myself playing Civ2 again. Specifically, Curt Sibling's Dictator II scenario. The pace of Civ2 is just better. I'm not sure why. (I play on smallish maps in Civ3, so I'm not burned by the slowness of the program.)
Abolishing hitpoints-a-la-2 and firepower would have been OK if they'd preserved the relative strengths (in Civ2, you can multiply A*HP*FP and D*HP*FP and get a good approximation to effective strength). But no. In Civ3, I dread becoming able to build musketmen, because then I can no longer build pikemen, which are 3/4 as good and cost 1/2 the shields.
I could go on, but I'm supposed to work now...
Abolishing hitpoints-a-la-2 and firepower would have been OK if they'd preserved the relative strengths (in Civ2, you can multiply A*HP*FP and D*HP*FP and get a good approximation to effective strength). But no. In Civ3, I dread becoming able to build musketmen, because then I can no longer build pikemen, which are 3/4 as good and cost 1/2 the shields.
I could go on, but I'm supposed to work now...
-proletarian-
Chairman and CEO
Ahh, I see. Everyone that disagrees with you is a stupid child.
Gotcha.
-proletarian-
Chairman and CEO
Hey Einstein, you spelt "hypocrites" incorrectly.
"MY 2,5 Cents Worth" (Inflation)
by Paalikles
I think I love Civ as much as the next guy (unless he or she happens not to....)
Like many before me have pointed out - people (not all but at least some) were disappointed when civ3 shipped without MP.
One might wonder why this was disappointing to at least some people - some argued that MP was promised to be part of "vanilla" civ3 - some argued that it was not.
Secondly, one might wonder why such a game like civ3 has some difficulties running on a decent or better computer (there are posters to these fora with decent or better computers...)
I have suggested to myself that civ3 suffers from the same illness as Alpha Centauri did. I thought SMAC was "slow" - scrolling the map, etc. And I think Civ3 has similar difficulties.
Thirdly - one might begin to discuss the gameplay elements of civ3 as compared to those of civ2 and SMAC.
Hopefully, most people would agree that civ2 represented an improvement over civ1. Not all of these people would say the same of civ3.
Civ3 gameplay in general has kept the most important elements of civ. Some would say - refined them, some would say - destroyed them (caravans, bombardment, stacks, etc.)
Would anyone have enjoyed civ3 as merely a graphical update to civ2 - probably not. Then some changes had to come for it to be interesting at all.
@PTW:
I do not yet own the Xpansion. I only consider the posts I have read (and all the ones I have not
) I think about the following:
We live in the internet age (wonder...ehem) and have easy access to any updates and/or downloads of almost any program we want to have. Thus I think adding modifications to the civ-game was a little unnecessary ("best of the web"-part of the ptw-cd) Though it is nice to see that mod-makers' efforts are appreciated - these mods could have easily stayed as downloadable parts of foras like these (CFC).
Including new civs is an ok bit of ptw I think - though it is mainly in the graphics department of Firaxis there has been some work to do on that element I think.
The ptw part that might be worth my kroners(NOK - Norwegian currency) must then be the multiplayer part.
Unfortunately - civ3mp did not work properly in the xp
This was corrected (hopefully) in the patch 1.04 - thus making ptw an interesting choice when I consider what I will get for my christmas gift to myself
I suppose ptw in whole takes up more space on a hard drive than an ordinary patch (I consider an ordinary patch to be aprox. 10MB, unless there is MUCH work to do....)
Therefore I will consider PTW as a purchase - especially when the price goes down.
That was my 2,5cents
by Paalikles
I think I love Civ as much as the next guy (unless he or she happens not to....)
Like many before me have pointed out - people (not all but at least some) were disappointed when civ3 shipped without MP.
One might wonder why this was disappointing to at least some people - some argued that MP was promised to be part of "vanilla" civ3 - some argued that it was not.
Secondly, one might wonder why such a game like civ3 has some difficulties running on a decent or better computer (there are posters to these fora with decent or better computers...)
I have suggested to myself that civ3 suffers from the same illness as Alpha Centauri did. I thought SMAC was "slow" - scrolling the map, etc. And I think Civ3 has similar difficulties.
Thirdly - one might begin to discuss the gameplay elements of civ3 as compared to those of civ2 and SMAC.
Hopefully, most people would agree that civ2 represented an improvement over civ1. Not all of these people would say the same of civ3.
Civ3 gameplay in general has kept the most important elements of civ. Some would say - refined them, some would say - destroyed them (caravans, bombardment, stacks, etc.)
Would anyone have enjoyed civ3 as merely a graphical update to civ2 - probably not. Then some changes had to come for it to be interesting at all.
@PTW:
I do not yet own the Xpansion. I only consider the posts I have read (and all the ones I have not
) I think about the following:We live in the internet age (wonder...ehem) and have easy access to any updates and/or downloads of almost any program we want to have. Thus I think adding modifications to the civ-game was a little unnecessary ("best of the web"-part of the ptw-cd) Though it is nice to see that mod-makers' efforts are appreciated - these mods could have easily stayed as downloadable parts of foras like these (CFC).
Including new civs is an ok bit of ptw I think - though it is mainly in the graphics department of Firaxis there has been some work to do on that element I think.
The ptw part that might be worth my kroners(NOK - Norwegian currency) must then be the multiplayer part.
Unfortunately - civ3mp did not work properly in the xp
This was corrected (hopefully) in the patch 1.04 - thus making ptw an interesting choice when I consider what I will get for my christmas gift to myself
I suppose ptw in whole takes up more space on a hard drive than an ordinary patch (I consider an ordinary patch to be aprox. 10MB, unless there is MUCH work to do....)
Therefore I will consider PTW as a purchase - especially when the price goes down.
That was my 2,5cents
Malachai
Chieftain
I feel exactly the same way as Nicosar with the only difference that I dont type that long posts 
Zcylen
Moonlight Rambler
I liked civ2, but after civ3 came out, playing back civ2 is unthinkable
Is better graphics the only thing you can think of to make civ 2 better? This has already been done, courtesy of many civ editors, but finally, and most prominently, by your most humble and gracious thread-starter, in what, I believe, is the richest and most highly optimized version of civ 2 possible, given the editing tools.
Here's a sample of the units, then, included here somwhere.
And my game has many rule changes and additions and reclusions left out from the default version, such as a few wonders and fundamentalism, to name but a couple, but if I could reprogram the game myself? Wehehell....heres just a FEW things i can think of while im here.....
(and ill leave AI fixes out, of which there would be an infinite amount, pretending that only humans would be playing the game)
1.___Destroy, with passion and fiery wrath, the unit limits and city limits, the scourges of civ 2, and make them ten times higher (not just for building cities, but I am fond of building army base cities, and not forts, abundantly, but most often i must sacrifice this for the fact that 255 cities, the limit, between 7 civs is only around 35 cities).
2.___Allow all 21 tribes to play at once.
3.___make borders negotiable: so that i could claim what my territory is by dragging a cursor on the map, inlcuding what defines private and international waters, and then put it up on the global bulletin, so to speak, or just with individual players, and have these borders clearly marked on the map somehow (civ 3 dotted lines can become obscured; a thick line made up of entire colored squares running down your side of the border, which would be transparent, tinting the terrain underneath, would be preferrable)
4.___make trading maps more dynamic; so that i could drag a cursor around a small part of my map and just trade or give you that little bit, with units and cities or just terrain
5.___Make rivers navigable up until it hits a cataract, which could be graphically shown along the river's course. I can do this already and i do on my custom maps, by following rivers to a certain point with diagonally-placed ocean squares (to allow land movement inbetween at frequent intervals) along the river's length, but this becomes slightly clumsy, even though it works quite well.
6.___Make 50 extra 'blank' units in the editor which can be customized to be actual units in the game, and not just 11.
6a._____Allow unit editing option to make certain ground units able to carry ground infantry units, and an option to check off that certain units are infantry or not, but also an option to be able to carry one piece of machinery (whereas the same 'transport truck' could carry three infantry units instead).
6b._____Allow unit editing options to make a unit 'stealth', such as a modern ranger division might be, or explorers and diplomats, which means they could not be seen on the map by an enemy and couldnt be bumped into either, and another option to 'see stealth units', to balance this advantage properly. If they couldnt be bumped into, this means an enemy would occupy the same square, which could be made out to work easily, and also be shown graphically quite clearly, and though you could not do the reverse, meaning a stealth unit purposely occupying the square of an enemy, if an enemy were to do it on his turn because he couldnt see you then you should be allowed to 'ambush' that enemy unit on your turn, if the enemy was still in your square, with an attack bonus of 2X. The attacking stealth unit would remain invisible after the ambush, but if the enemy were to send a unit into that square the turn after you attack, even though he couldnt see your unit, then he would engage you instead of taking up the same square. 2 turns later youd be stealth again to the enemy.
6c._____Make unit editing option to make a unit privy only to a certain civ (yes, itd be a UU, let it be....)
6d._____Make a unit editing option to specify if a unit is a machine unit, which would then give that unit fuel, ammo, and wear-and-tear statistics, meaning that a system would need to be implememted to make extra bars next to their health bars to indicate such things, as well as the ability to build various types of ammunition in your cities, as well as having oil as a resource and then building fuel in your cities (which youd need a refinery for, a city improvement, and you could also build fuel trucks), but this would mean that oil couldnt be just a random commodity but allowed to be retrieved through the actual resource on tundras and deserts (and once you get minitiaurization you should be allowed to take an engineer on a boat and take him to a certain ocean square and have him 'check for undersea oil, an action which would take two turns, after which, if you surveyed many squares, you would start to delineate pools of oil (taking up many adjacent squares) small and big. it should also have this option for land, despite the existing 'oil springs' already visible, to find underground pools.) Wear and tear would be noticed by a slight loss of health, progressively, and machines could not be fixed on their own after reaching red, to signify that field repairs would require new parts)
6e._____A units editing option to make a unit able to bombard...except my version of bombarding would require ammo, such as said above, which would need to be replenished, and it would be far more dynamic. A catapult, for instance, could choose to heave either stones or combustibles, example: wooden barrels of oil (which was done in the old days by more violent generals, after which archers could shoot firebrands into the place smeared and set it on fire), and it could choose to attack whatever it wanted, since it doesnt take stealth technology to aim [ ], meaning that you wouldnt need diplos to smash city walls, but artillery instead. diplos wouldnt anyway be able to destroy any improvement at all, until you learn explosives, lest that improvement be made of wood, and a person should be able to choose of what material he would want his city constructions to be made out of, given whats available and what would be cheaper or expensise or strategically sound. for example: library made of terra cotta bricks: 70 shields, library made of wood: 80 shields (but burnable), library made of stone: 90 shields but stronger)
( i could think of many more editing options which would also affect the game physics, but ill leave that and just mention just a few more things in other areas)
7.___Allow minefields to be built, which would not harm your own troops upon going over them, but which would affect a city square if that mined square was being cultivated, so if the enemy city tried to cultivate that square hed lose a third of his food box (to signify that many people were killed but not quite one pop. point's worth) and if he didnt have one third to give then hed have to lose a pop point indeed. That enemy would have maybe a 1 in 4 chance of losing people if he worked that square. settlers could not disarm them, only engineers could unharmed. And if you built a minefield in your own city radius, that would make one citizen unhappy plus the inability to cultivate that square.
8.___Allow units to go into 'hiding'. meaning that practically any unit could do so as a stealth unit would naturally be, an act which takes two turns to do, one more than fortifying, which would allow them to remain stealth and ambush. as soon as you move on them or activate them, though, they become visible. Machine units would take 3 turns to hide. stealth units could also hide, at which point their ambush becomes 3X their normal attack. hiding could only be done in forest, swamps, jungle, hills and mountains.
9.___Make cities take up more than one square and increase their city radius upon growth to a certain size, so that for instance, after reaching size 10, your city would take up two squares (the next one would also be at your choosing) and the radius would emcompass around 5 more squares to add to the 'fat X' on that side, making it an irregular fat X, and then three squares at 15 and 4 after 20 and 4 would be the limit, as well as a corresponding growth to your fat X, so that your city radius at 20 would be a really Phat-ass X. you couldnt make a straight line of four squares though, all size 20 cities would be a square of four tiles, though by placing each one as they came you could decide where that four-square would be relative to your original square. Attacking bombard units could choose to demolish your city walls, for instance, in one square, but then they would only demolish the walls for that particular section of the city and units attacking you from the other side would still have to face the walls there. conversely, walls would be two times more expensive at size 10, 3 times at size 15, and so on.
10.___allow pipelines to be built anywhere on earth, land or ocean, so that if you built a mine on top of a oil 'spring', normal oil square, or if you uncover an underground pool and build special oil wells to tap it, you can connect them to any city to be used as resource to build fuel, and to accumulate in a sort of resource cache that you should have somewhere, as well as be able to build oil platforms anywhere on earth (which should only be allowed to be built for your city and thus gain extra ocean shields if there is an undersea pool in your city radius) which could either transport the allmighty and invaluable oil back home, but in the case of water, you could also build tanker units to transport oil without a pipeline.
11.___make oil platforms a visible terrain improvement on the map that could be captured, and thus used to store a certain amount of units (5 units max, including helicopters) or to be worked for oil (but not both).
12.___make three different kinds of transports: amphibious army transport, cargo tanker, oil tanker
13.___make three different kinds of choppers: early one (vietnam style that could have average attack and also carry one infantry), transport one that could carry either 3 infantry or one machine (chinook), or a modern heavy attack chopper (apache).
14.___incorporate 'simul mode' style of play so that it would work online ( to accomodate for the lag with some plausible system of war)
thats all im willing to write for now, and i could go on to a thousand with the same reasonable and high quality additions to the game to improve vastly upon it, at which point, though, i think itd start to be so realistic that the pentagon would take notice in it as a useful simulator of actual world events, but if I were to go to even 30 of these, it would make for a game 10 times better than civ 3.
You reading this Firaxians? It puts you to shame, doesnt it, that some schmoe can come up by himself just in the 20 minutes that hes writing with far better ideas than any of you ever have in all your years....GO BACK TO GAME SCHOOL!!!
Here's a sample of the units, then, included here somwhere.
And my game has many rule changes and additions and reclusions left out from the default version, such as a few wonders and fundamentalism, to name but a couple, but if I could reprogram the game myself? Wehehell....heres just a FEW things i can think of while im here.....
(and ill leave AI fixes out, of which there would be an infinite amount, pretending that only humans would be playing the game)
1.___Destroy, with passion and fiery wrath, the unit limits and city limits, the scourges of civ 2, and make them ten times higher (not just for building cities, but I am fond of building army base cities, and not forts, abundantly, but most often i must sacrifice this for the fact that 255 cities, the limit, between 7 civs is only around 35 cities).
2.___Allow all 21 tribes to play at once.
3.___make borders negotiable: so that i could claim what my territory is by dragging a cursor on the map, inlcuding what defines private and international waters, and then put it up on the global bulletin, so to speak, or just with individual players, and have these borders clearly marked on the map somehow (civ 3 dotted lines can become obscured; a thick line made up of entire colored squares running down your side of the border, which would be transparent, tinting the terrain underneath, would be preferrable)
4.___make trading maps more dynamic; so that i could drag a cursor around a small part of my map and just trade or give you that little bit, with units and cities or just terrain
5.___Make rivers navigable up until it hits a cataract, which could be graphically shown along the river's course. I can do this already and i do on my custom maps, by following rivers to a certain point with diagonally-placed ocean squares (to allow land movement inbetween at frequent intervals) along the river's length, but this becomes slightly clumsy, even though it works quite well.
6.___Make 50 extra 'blank' units in the editor which can be customized to be actual units in the game, and not just 11.
6a._____Allow unit editing option to make certain ground units able to carry ground infantry units, and an option to check off that certain units are infantry or not, but also an option to be able to carry one piece of machinery (whereas the same 'transport truck' could carry three infantry units instead).
6b._____Allow unit editing options to make a unit 'stealth', such as a modern ranger division might be, or explorers and diplomats, which means they could not be seen on the map by an enemy and couldnt be bumped into either, and another option to 'see stealth units', to balance this advantage properly. If they couldnt be bumped into, this means an enemy would occupy the same square, which could be made out to work easily, and also be shown graphically quite clearly, and though you could not do the reverse, meaning a stealth unit purposely occupying the square of an enemy, if an enemy were to do it on his turn because he couldnt see you then you should be allowed to 'ambush' that enemy unit on your turn, if the enemy was still in your square, with an attack bonus of 2X. The attacking stealth unit would remain invisible after the ambush, but if the enemy were to send a unit into that square the turn after you attack, even though he couldnt see your unit, then he would engage you instead of taking up the same square. 2 turns later youd be stealth again to the enemy.
6c._____Make unit editing option to make a unit privy only to a certain civ (yes, itd be a UU, let it be....)
6d._____Make a unit editing option to specify if a unit is a machine unit, which would then give that unit fuel, ammo, and wear-and-tear statistics, meaning that a system would need to be implememted to make extra bars next to their health bars to indicate such things, as well as the ability to build various types of ammunition in your cities, as well as having oil as a resource and then building fuel in your cities (which youd need a refinery for, a city improvement, and you could also build fuel trucks), but this would mean that oil couldnt be just a random commodity but allowed to be retrieved through the actual resource on tundras and deserts (and once you get minitiaurization you should be allowed to take an engineer on a boat and take him to a certain ocean square and have him 'check for undersea oil, an action which would take two turns, after which, if you surveyed many squares, you would start to delineate pools of oil (taking up many adjacent squares) small and big. it should also have this option for land, despite the existing 'oil springs' already visible, to find underground pools.) Wear and tear would be noticed by a slight loss of health, progressively, and machines could not be fixed on their own after reaching red, to signify that field repairs would require new parts)
6e._____A units editing option to make a unit able to bombard...except my version of bombarding would require ammo, such as said above, which would need to be replenished, and it would be far more dynamic. A catapult, for instance, could choose to heave either stones or combustibles, example: wooden barrels of oil (which was done in the old days by more violent generals, after which archers could shoot firebrands into the place smeared and set it on fire), and it could choose to attack whatever it wanted, since it doesnt take stealth technology to aim [
], meaning that you wouldnt need diplos to smash city walls, but artillery instead. diplos wouldnt anyway be able to destroy any improvement at all, until you learn explosives, lest that improvement be made of wood, and a person should be able to choose of what material he would want his city constructions to be made out of, given whats available and what would be cheaper or expensise or strategically sound. for example: library made of terra cotta bricks: 70 shields, library made of wood: 80 shields (but burnable), library made of stone: 90 shields but stronger)( i could think of many more editing options which would also affect the game physics, but ill leave that and just mention just a few more things in other areas)
7.___Allow minefields to be built, which would not harm your own troops upon going over them, but which would affect a city square if that mined square was being cultivated, so if the enemy city tried to cultivate that square hed lose a third of his food box (to signify that many people were killed but not quite one pop. point's worth) and if he didnt have one third to give then hed have to lose a pop point indeed. That enemy would have maybe a 1 in 4 chance of losing people if he worked that square. settlers could not disarm them, only engineers could unharmed. And if you built a minefield in your own city radius, that would make one citizen unhappy plus the inability to cultivate that square.
8.___Allow units to go into 'hiding'. meaning that practically any unit could do so as a stealth unit would naturally be, an act which takes two turns to do, one more than fortifying, which would allow them to remain stealth and ambush. as soon as you move on them or activate them, though, they become visible. Machine units would take 3 turns to hide. stealth units could also hide, at which point their ambush becomes 3X their normal attack. hiding could only be done in forest, swamps, jungle, hills and mountains.
9.___Make cities take up more than one square and increase their city radius upon growth to a certain size, so that for instance, after reaching size 10, your city would take up two squares (the next one would also be at your choosing) and the radius would emcompass around 5 more squares to add to the 'fat X' on that side, making it an irregular fat X, and then three squares at 15 and 4 after 20 and 4 would be the limit, as well as a corresponding growth to your fat X, so that your city radius at 20 would be a really Phat-ass X. you couldnt make a straight line of four squares though, all size 20 cities would be a square of four tiles, though by placing each one as they came you could decide where that four-square would be relative to your original square. Attacking bombard units could choose to demolish your city walls, for instance, in one square, but then they would only demolish the walls for that particular section of the city and units attacking you from the other side would still have to face the walls there. conversely, walls would be two times more expensive at size 10, 3 times at size 15, and so on.
10.___allow pipelines to be built anywhere on earth, land or ocean, so that if you built a mine on top of a oil 'spring', normal oil square, or if you uncover an underground pool and build special oil wells to tap it, you can connect them to any city to be used as resource to build fuel, and to accumulate in a sort of resource cache that you should have somewhere, as well as be able to build oil platforms anywhere on earth (which should only be allowed to be built for your city and thus gain extra ocean shields if there is an undersea pool in your city radius) which could either transport the allmighty and invaluable oil back home, but in the case of water, you could also build tanker units to transport oil without a pipeline.
11.___make oil platforms a visible terrain improvement on the map that could be captured, and thus used to store a certain amount of units (5 units max, including helicopters) or to be worked for oil (but not both).
12.___make three different kinds of transports: amphibious army transport, cargo tanker, oil tanker
13.___make three different kinds of choppers: early one (vietnam style that could have average attack and also carry one infantry), transport one that could carry either 3 infantry or one machine (chinook), or a modern heavy attack chopper (apache).
14.___incorporate 'simul mode' style of play so that it would work online ( to accomodate for the lag with some plausible system of war)
thats all im willing to write for now, and i could go on to a thousand with the same reasonable and high quality additions to the game to improve vastly upon it, at which point, though, i think itd start to be so realistic that the pentagon would take notice in it as a useful simulator of actual world events, but if I were to go to even 30 of these, it would make for a game 10 times better than civ 3.
You reading this Firaxians? It puts you to shame, doesnt it, that some schmoe can come up by himself just in the 20 minutes that hes writing with far better ideas than any of you ever have in all your years....GO BACK TO GAME SCHOOL!!!
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Well, Nicosar, where is your game that does this? I have dozens of ideas a day. Guess what? Ideas without implementation aren't games, they're just ideas. I venture to say everyone on these forums has ideas. BFD.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,455
It's a crying shame that someone like Nicosar isn't on the design team of CIV3.
There are too many suckers around, who accept trash computer games.
And are unable to accept the facts that today's software development is ruled by a 'get-the-game-out-the-door-quick' attitude.
If you accept crap, you'll get it.
I'm sure Firaxis was heart-broken that they had to push a bug-fest out of the door...
More like laughing with glee at all the fools who are rushing to kiss their boots and buy the game regardless.
Tsk!
There are too many suckers around, who accept trash computer games.
And are unable to accept the facts that today's software development is ruled by a 'get-the-game-out-the-door-quick' attitude.
If you accept crap, you'll get it.
I'm sure Firaxis was heart-broken that they had to push a bug-fest out of the door...
More like laughing with glee at all the fools who are rushing to kiss their boots and buy the game regardless.
Tsk!
could a moderator please tell me how to put an image up!!!
It seems its not as simple as as putting the location of the image up inbetween the , so im lost. or anyone else that knows how....
CCHIIIIIEEFFFFTESSSSS!!!! Come to my aid, oh divine queen of cyber-civ, please!
And warpstorm, i never claimed to have superior ideas or that i have such a version; my point being that they should INDEED simply have taken civ 2 and worked on it, and they couldve had their fancy graphics, which i would also want, cant say i wouldnt, but which dont add as much as the core changes to gameplay. civ 2 was a great base product, and i was arguing that civ 3 is not only different from the 'gold'mine that was civ 2 but also vastly inferior, and that such changes as described above would be among many welcomed changes and additions, but if you have such great ideas, and abundantly, and so often, please...humor me, id love to add to the above list.
It seems its not as simple as as putting the location of the image up inbetween the , so im lost. or anyone else that knows how....
CCHIIIIIEEFFFFTESSSSS!!!! Come to my aid, oh divine queen of cyber-civ, please!
And warpstorm, i never claimed to have superior ideas or that i have such a version; my point being that they should INDEED simply have taken civ 2 and worked on it, and they couldve had their fancy graphics, which i would also want, cant say i wouldnt, but which dont add as much as the core changes to gameplay. civ 2 was a great base product, and i was arguing that civ 3 is not only different from the 'gold'mine that was civ 2 but also vastly inferior, and that such changes as described above would be among many welcomed changes and additions, but if you have such great ideas, and abundantly, and so often, please...humor me, id love to add to the above list.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,455
Originally posted by -proletarian-
Hey Einstein, you spelt "hypocrites" incorrectly.
Bet you spent all day trying to find a spelling mistake!
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,455
Hey! Ayatollah!
Long time no see!
Thanks for the mention, dude...been thinking of getting back to CIV2 myself!
animepornstar
Deity
great posts nicosar. i want to join the civ3 bashing.
it has always bugged me why contact trading is in the game. i can't really see how it makes the game better in any way and it's neither realistic. can someone explain to me?
the starting positions. how comes that i always finds myself being in the corresponding to amazons, himalaya, sahara or greenland in the beginning of the game? in civ2 i got a decent place in 2 of 3 times.
i want to join the civ3 bashing. it has always bugged me why contact trading is in the game. i can't really see how it makes the game better in any way and it's neither realistic. can someone explain to me?
the starting positions. how comes that i always finds myself being in the corresponding to amazons, himalaya, sahara or greenland in the beginning of the game? in civ2 i got a decent place in 2 of 3 times.
Reboot
Privateer
Much as I think that Nico's ideas should be implemented (heck, in fact some of them were already suggested when Civ3 was still in early development!), many do have a micro-management bent to them. Bear in mind that Civ3 is a game that puts players at a higher level of management than the average strategy game, hence the problem with translating the micro-aspects into macro ones.
For example, (as mentioned by others before) the "Spearman beating the Tank" scenario may only be rationalised with the implementation of mines or some form of anti-tank missile that is included in Spearman-standard-issue.
Civ3 is generally a sad development of the Civ string of games.
Well I guess that's why I'm waiting for RoN.
For example, (as mentioned by others before) the "Spearman beating the Tank" scenario may only be rationalised with the implementation of mines or some form of anti-tank missile that is included in Spearman-standard-issue.
Civ3 is generally a sad development of the Civ string of games.
Well I guess that's why I'm waiting for RoN.-proletarian-
Chairman and CEO
Originally posted by CurtSibling
Bet you spent all day trying to find a spelling mistake!
No, actually It jumped out at me whilst reading that novel he posted earlier in this thread.
It just struck me as strange that someone who likes to flount his "intelligence" wouldn't even know how to spell such a pedestrian word.
actually, i do, you see, it was a typo. Usually, though, i dont go back and spell check....
i guess i should give you the same scoulding for "flount" (its flaunt, "genius")..... but anyway; "flount his "intelligence" "??
Listen pal, im just talking. Maybe it sounds ostentantiously pseudo-intellectual to you [spell-check that! ] or whatever, but anyway, we all CLEARLY see that this is not a case of my being snootishly verbose.
No, no, it is a common case of resentment.
Debate my ideas, "einstein", not my style.... this isnt a catwalk and im neither anemic, heroine-addicted, nor a woman....so go back to the poodle palace of fashion critics from whence thou came!
i guess i should give you the same scoulding for "flount" (its flaunt, "genius")..... but anyway; "flount his "intelligence" "??
Listen pal, im just talking. Maybe it sounds ostentantiously pseudo-intellectual to you [spell-check that!
] or whatever, but anyway, we all CLEARLY see that this is not a case of my being snootishly verbose.No, no, it is a common case of resentment.
Debate my ideas, "einstein", not my style.... this isnt a catwalk and im neither anemic, heroine-addicted, nor a woman....so go back to the poodle palace of fashion critics from whence thou came!
KaNick
Deity
This all started so nice but then turned into a cagematch for intellegent people that act like children.(I will mention no names) I think that Civ3 is a very good game, maybe not the best but i do not ask for perfection. I think that the main attraction to civ is it's simplicity, which is why it sold so well. I look forward to your perfect, bug free game nick, its sound greatI mean no offence to anyone, so please don't flame me. This thread is already spammy enough
Don't spell check this either, as I already know how poorly I spell.
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