[GS] Punch List for Civ VI

[Revanchist]

More city center buildings - make the city layouts less ugly. Add city districts that give you housing space and a minor adjacency bonus to replace neighborhoods (Must be built next to another city district or the city center). Cities don't really look like cities. They look like someone stuck a few skyscrapers down and surrounded it with colorful buildings and called it a day.

 

[civfan_999]

I disagree to this one. I mean planes are quite strong, yes. But no damage when attacking cities is the same for any other ranged unit - except for planes getting hit and damaged by anti air stuff like mobile sams. And as you said death robots are super annoying when they get the anti air promotion. The real problems here is the AI beeing bad at war most of the time. Try to fight a human in any mp on an equal tech level, it will be way harder I promise.

The AI building anti air would certainly help. But what about if you are ahead of them on tech? And often times they don't build much/any anti air and fighter jets anyway. So you can take down walls and all the HP of a city while being completely out of their range and taking no losses. I think it makes sense for garisons to come with anti-air so that planes take damage attacking cities.

Current steel tech: "Unlocks Urban Defenses, giving all of your cities an automatic 200 fortification Strength and the ability to bombard."
Why not have another tech an ear past that where you get better urban defences and all cities become equip with anti air?

 

[The Civs 6]

I really like what you said about there being too much science and culture in the game. What is really striking about playing earlier Civs is how everything comes from a handful of sources - science comes from gold from tile yields or specialists, and is only amplified by libraries etc. Culture comes from a few buildings, religions, and wonders. Most other things come just from tile yields. Whereas in 6, it seems like there is production, food, etc. just flowing from nowhere. Like if I send an internal trade route that gives me a bunch of food and production, where is that food and production coming from?

 

[Buktu]

The AI building anti air would certainly help. But what about if you are ahead of them on tech? And often times they don't build much/any anti air and fighter jets anyway. So you can take down walls and all the HP of a city while being completely out of their range and taking no losses. I think it makes sense for garisons to come with anti-air so that planes take damage attacking cities.

Current steel tech: "Unlocks Urban Defenses, giving all of your cities an automatic 200 fortification Strength and the ability to bombard."
Why not have another tech an ear past that where you get better urban defences and all cities become equip with anti air?

If you are ahead on tech you stomp no matter what, especially if you are focussing your research on modern units. That is the reward for your high science. And even with an AA unit in a city you can use artillery and ballons/drones to take down walls without taking damage.
The idea with automatic AA stuff in cities is quite nice though it won't help the AI/human players at all if you are ahead in tech.

 

[Revanchist]

Another one of my problems relating to civs not keeping an identity (Outside of abilities and one building/district) is that they are not very specialized. Sure you may have a water mill for rivers and occasionally a dam, but a civilization found in the desert isn't going to vary too greatly from one in the tundra aside from the tile yields they get. It would be great to see more unique area specific buildings. For example, tundra cities may get an outpost or research station whereas desert cities get a well or water storage facility - I don't know. I just want something that makes my cities more appealing to look at and gives them a greater purpose and not just 'Tundra city 1' and 'Desert city 2'.

In regards to nerfing certain starting locations, I am more in favor of buffing weaker ones. Mountains are fine in my opinion, but some will say otherwise.

 

[civfan_999]

Mountains are fine in my opinion, but some will say otherwise.

Mountains can offer a fairly significant defense advantage. I have failed miserably to take cities in the mid-game when they are in position with a couple key mountain and lake tiles that limit your ability to advance on the city. Plus, now you can build ski resorts which are great to solve the amenity struggles.

 

[acluewithout]

Updated OP for July DLC.

 

[The Civs 6]

I want to bump this just to ask a simple question - how many "seasons" would you be willing to withstand before you got fed up and asked for 7? The more I think about it, the more I feel like the designers, probably for business reasons, are willing to stick with 6 and just charge people for the kind of content that they released with NFP. I'm not sure how I feel about that. For me 6 is really the first Civ game that has motivated me to go back and play older Civ games. I really can't remember, in my relationship with Civ, a time where I have felt that way.

I bought NFP, but basically, I don't want that purchase and what I presume to be the general willingness of people to pay for NFP, to distract from the principle behind this thread - one that I think ultimately is a call for a new base game where the designers think through the strengths and weaknesses of the past 2 games and synthesize it into something really great.

 

[acluewithout]

I want to bump this just to ask a simple question - how many "seasons" would you be willing to withstand before you got fed up and asked for 7?

I suggest you start a separate thread.

Short answer, for me, I’ll keep buying passes rather than move to a hypothetical Civ 7.

What I’d really like is perhaps a small third expansion after NFP just focusing on the end game, because I think that’s the area where the game really needs to be pulled together more. After that, I’d happily buy a second, third etc season pass.

 

[acluewithout]

Added some additional thoughts, mostly around Religion post June 2020 Update.

• [NEW] Religion and Loyalty. Could Religious Beliefs have a bit more interaction with Loyalty? The current +3/-3 Loyalty is fine, but there’s room for more. eg Religious Colonization - additionally grants Cities on Foreign Continents following this Religion +2 Loyalty. Scripture - additionally grants Cities following this Religion +2 Loyalty if they have a Tier 3 Religious Building.
  
  
• [NEW] Monks and Nihang. Monks and Nihang should work like Vampires, and have a base Melee strength based on your strongest Melee Unit. Monks need that so they stop being irrelevant late game; Nihang need that so they stop being OP.
  
  
• [NEW] Gurus and Conquistadors. Can these instead be unique units tied to specific Beliefs? That would mean three Religious Unique Units. Conquistadors would be tricky, because you wouldn’t want them turning up eg Classical Era. But if they still required Niter, and or also required a specific Civic or Building to build, it would be fine. You’d have to give Spain some other UU, eg Tercio.

• [NEW] Reformation Beliefs. Can we get back Reformation Beliefs from Civ 5? So, if you founded a Religion, there would be a fifth set of beliefs, but you could only get them after you’d unlocked a certain Civic. They could then do cool things like letting you use Spies to spread Religion, or give you other ways to manipulate Loyalty.

• [NEW] Rebalance and expand buildings. Get rid of flat yields generally, and make buildings more situational. eg Market gives Luxes +1 Gold, Library gives +1 Science to Plantations and Reefs, University and Archaeology Museum / Art Gallery gives +2 Science / Culture respectively but additional +2 in a Golden Age.

• [NEW] Buff Industrial Zone T1 and T2 Buildings. eg Workshop - additionally provides +1 Production to Camps and Pastures in this City; Factory - increase bonuses to +4 (+8 when powered).

• [NEW] Rework Natural Philosophy (and Aesthetics). eg +50% Campus Adjacencies in Cities with a Governor and +50% for Cities with a Library. (Equivalent changes for Theatre Square.)

• [NEW] Rework Rationalism (and Grand Opera). eg +1% Science per Campus Adjacency and +1% per Population if City has University and a Governor (Max 15%). (Equivalent changes for Theatres Square Buildings.)

• I also made a few other tweaks to my suggestions on Mines and Railways.

 

[Sostratus]

You’d have to give Spain some other UU, eg Tercio.

Tercio tactics - lets freaking goooooooooo
I can imagine so many interesting ways to get that done. a P&S with no melee vulnerability? A musketman with bonus vs mounted? So many choices!

 

[acluewithout]

Tercio tactics - lets freaking goooooooooo
I can imagine so many interesting ways to get that done. a P&S with no melee vulnerability? A musketman with bonus vs mounted? So many choices!

Terico would be very fun.

And the best bit is that if you Found a Religion and get the right Belief, you could play Spain with Conquistadors and Terico!

 

[hhhhhh]

• [NEW] Rebalance and expand buildings. Get rid of flat yields generally, and make buildings more situational. eg Market gives Luxes +1 Gold, Library gives +1 Science to Plantations and Reefs, University and Archaeology Museum / Art Gallery gives +2 Science / Culture respectively but additional +2 in a Golden Age.

This will make Golden Age way too important. Making some of the yields tile dependent is not a bad idea.

• [NEW] Buff Industrial Zone T1 and T2 Buildings. eg Workshop - additionally provides +1 Production to Camps and Pastures in this City; Factory - increase bonuses to +4 (+8 when powered).

Clearly workshop and everything around IZ needs a buff. This may be a good one.

• [NEW] Rework Natural Philosophy (and Aesthetics). eg +50% Campus Adjacencies in Cities with a Governor and +50% for Cities with a Library. (Equivalent changes for Theatre Square.)
• [NEW] Rework Rationalism (and Grand Opera). eg +1% Science per Campus Adjacency and +1% per Population if City has University and a Governor (Max 15%). (Equivalent changes for Theatres Square Buildings.)

All the restrictions that ask for a governor... I get that you want to boost tall play but can we have 5 more governors if we go like this?

 

[acluewithout]

snip

Thanks for the comments. Some of my suggestions definitely need some play-testing.

University/ Art Museum etc. My goal was more to just one down the yields on these buildings. I don’t think that would make GAs OP, but would hopefully make the buildings more situational.

Natural Philosophy, Rationalism etc. I’d like to find some limit on how many Cities can benefit from these cards, not so much to buff Tall or make Wide less powerful, but more just to reduce overall Science and Campus spam. Governors seemed like the easiest limiting factor.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

I don't necessarily have a problem with partisans, I just don't see why they spawn in cities I settled...which combined with the foment unrest mission doesn't make much sense.

 

[acluewithout]

Added two suggestions based on discussions re August 2020 update:

• [NEW] Audience Chamber. Make the +3 Housing and +1 Amenities apply to the City that has the AC and any City with a Governor (ie so you’ve got a few more Governor titles to spread around given your Gov Plaza City automatically gets the bonus).

• [NEW] Envoys. Post June 2020 envoy changes were good but hit Mercantile and Faith CS a bit hard. Perhaps they could be buffed back to 2/2/4?

Also reworded OP intro a little.

 

[hhhhhh]

• [NEW] Ancestral Hall. Make the +3 Housing and +1 Amenities apply to the City that has the AC and any City with a Governor (ie so you’ve got a few more Governor titles to spread around given your Gov Plaza City automatically gets the bonus).

Do you mean Audience Chamber?

 

[acluewithout]

Do you mean Audience Chamber?

Bother. Yes, I did. Have fixed it.

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

game needs more money sinks , higher upkeep costs for more cities ( lets say after the 8th city for example )

railways need to be more relevant. getting more gold at the stage where you start building railroads is irrelevant , at that time your income is already absurdly high

lots of missing military units , each type (cav , AC , melee etc ) should have a unit at each era
t
he adjacency bonuses should only come into play after you build higher tier buildings. as an example for mountains library , for geotermals university , for jungles lab

dedications are too few. more options please

make city states a lot more powerful at the start of the game. they are overrun at the moment which makes them essentially free real estate and nothing else

aircraft carriers need a rework , and armadas should be build by different ship types.

roads should not eat up a charge of military engineers

more UI options , city state selector , civ selector , number of natural wonder selector

diminishing returns for district yields after a few 8 cities or so would encourage tall , improving specialist yields could make wide still viable

 

[acluewithout]

Added:

• [NEW] Amenities. August Amenities changes are good, but a bit off. Make “Content” 0-2 (not -1 to 2) and buff the bonuses from Ecstatic. Buff Arena, eg provides +1 Culture and +2 Gold if City is at full Loyalty. Monarchy additionally provides +1 Amenities to all Cities per Camp. Colonial Offices Policy Card additionally provides some Amenities bonus (maybe +1 Amenity with a Governor or a Harbour / Commercial Hub).

Not entirely sure that's the right way to tweak Amenities, but that's the best I could come up with.

I really need to get around to modding some of this stuff, particularly the things that a really just tweaking .sql tables...