Q: The best promotion? A: Commando

The Snug

The Civ Heretic
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1. Which promotions do you love, and with which units?
2. Which do you hate?
3. What is the overall best/worst promotion?

I'll answer number three. I think the best non GG promotion is one that I just discovered. It appears rather stupid on the surface, but really, it unlocks some remarkable possibilities.

Here's the situation, I have discovered flight, but I don't have oil (again). The AI is behind in techs and is therefore utilizing mass cavalry charges. My counter is to build paratroopers, and as Japan I get c1, cg1 and fs1 for free. My military city starts with 17xp. So I start experimenting with different paratrooper types. I've got medics, cg/fs city defenders, guerillas, rangers, c4 pinch, c4 formation, etc...

I build 80 of these buggers while planning a massive first-strike assault on a constantly unneighborly neighbor that will capture every city (including one with oil) within paradrop range +1. I have to capture all of these cities so that when I capture the particular city with the oil, I'll have complete control of the culture between that city and my borders. Otherwise, I'll simply have an culturally-isolated city with oil that can't establish a supply line to my cities (and building an airport in the newly captured city would take too long). I'm monitoring my other neighbor's progress in researching flight. I know that I have to get oil the moment he discovers flight because I believe he will immediately upgrade his massive fleet of airships and DOW me.

So, while I'm prepping my paratrooper assault, I accidently give one of my c4 guys the commando promotion (I have never used this promotion) and swear. I wonder, what the hell am I going to do with a guy who can go three spaces on roads? Then I notice that my neighbor has just built railroads and so I start wondering if the commando promotion works for railroads too.

It does!!!

I only have time to build about a half-dozen of these guys, but their capability is amazing. When I launch my attack, this small squad of paratrooper commandos drives 10 squares within enemy territory and is able to attack (something a paradrop can't do). The potential tactical uses should be readily apparent to any civver. They can now do anything that a paratrooper can do (cut roads and resources, camp on hills and forests, etc...), except that they can go twice as far and can immediately attack (no 1 turn wait). That's power. An organized first strike with an army of commando's would entirely cripple an enemy civ. You could capture all of his workers, cut all his resources, kill all his mines, and even capture his poorly defended backline cities before he could even respond, and there would be no way for an opponent to defend against this because your opponent cannot mass a defence in any single city, but would have to spread out his defence force evenly, thereby weakening his ability to defend. The attacker can simply choose which city he wants to capture. Perhaps the defender's only viable option would be to mass produce machine guns that might stop a gunpowder commando, and then spread them around liberally.



Unfortunately, you cannot paradrop and then go an additional 10 squares, but you can paradrop and go an additional 5 squares on rails and 2 on roads. Hence, it's redundant to give paratroopers the commando promotion, unless of course, you are paradropping across water and want them to go additional squares. Hence, it's better to give infantry and marines the commando promotion. Especially marines because they nullify the potential machine-gun defense strategy.

The main problem, then, becomes the cultural defense bonus of victim cities, hence commando's would need spies to lead the charge a turn ahead of the scheduled invasion.

But, all things considered, a commando raid is unstoppable.

That makes it the most powerful promotion.
 
You missed one of the best facts:
The AI has no way of dealing with a force nearly that mobile, it has enough problems with woody/Guerrilla III. Even with just roads, Commando speeds up your armies so much that once the enemy has built lots of roads your foot units are faster than mounted units, and ignore terrain.

Along with it goes March (which I would rate as equal to, if not better than, commando). The two biggest pains of combat in Civ IV are sitting around healing before marching to the next target, and collateral damage sustained during that march (primarily aircraft). With March, both of these problems are significantly reduced.

In many other threads I have argued for mobile, fast moving armies, and these two promotions create the force that can wipe out an enemy before they have a chance to respond. That is what makes Navy SEALs a great UU, if you get a chance to use it.
 
Commando is great (especially on tanks - you really need oil). The problem is getting large enough numbers in order to actually have any measurable and sustainable effect.

Bombers/Fighters (again, oil) are helpful as well since you can often set a carrier fleet or long-range bombers to support the command units.

All things considered a Commando raid is extremely difficult to achieve in the first place, and given the probable losses (unless you can give air support) not really sustainable. Your experience is skewed due to having the aggressive trait and having settled 3-5GGs (7 if you didn't build West Point there) in your military city (what civics where you in)? Yes, if you can build commandos out-of-the-box they are very powerful, but otherwise having enough combat to continually promote them while using them for raids makes the promotion itself less than ideal.
 
wait question, if you use commando and they attack or capture something do they lose a turn?
 
Commando is great (especially on tanks - you really need oil). The problem is getting large enough numbers in order to actually have any measurable and sustainable effect.

Bombers/Fighters (again, oil) are helpful as well since you can often set a carrier fleet or long-range bombers to support the command units.

All things considered a Commando raid is extremely difficult to achieve in the first place, and given the probable losses (unless you can give air support) not really sustainable. Your experience is skewed due to having the aggressive trait and having settled 3-5GGs (7 if you didn't build West Point there) in your military city (what civics where you in)? Yes, if you can build commandos out-of-the-box they are very powerful, but otherwise having enough combat to continually promote them while using them for raids makes the promotion itself less than ideal.

The commando promotion requires c4, so, if you're a person who follows the C promo line, it's something your best troops can work up to and achieve by the time the promo becomes available (one of the Military something techs). Also by then you've probably got a military city established with a high xp output.

As an aggresive civ I recieved c1 for free. I had a barracks, Westpoint/National Epic, Pentagon, and 4 gg's. No military civic (theocracy). Which meant they came out with c4 and commando.

If you eliminate the majority of an opposing civ in the initial first strike, then you wouldn't have much need for March. But yes, that's powerful too.
 
wait question, if you use commando and they attack or capture something do they lose a turn?

The attacking unit loses as many points attacking a tile as it would moving onto that tile. Thus a commando attacking a city will only use 1/3rd of a movement point (post-engineering). This applies to non-commando units as well (mounted units attacking flatland only use 1 of their movement points and thus can retreat back into the stack after capturing the city.
 
The worst point of commando is obviously that you need 4 promos to unlock it. Even more, 4 attack promos. And, to be franck, it's also quite rare to get a city with a bonus of 17 XP right of the bat.

Even with agressive/barracks/theo/vassalage/west point/pentagon, you still need 2 great instructors. And at this point, I'd rather use natiohood or build more units instead of the pentagon or west point. Don't even speak about if you're not agressive ;)

Still, nice promo, but not for a grand scale use imho.
 
The commando promotion requires c4, so, if you're a person who follows the C promo line, it's something your best troops can work up to and achieve by the time the promo becomes available (one of the Military something techs). Also by then you've probably got a military city established with a high xp output.

As an aggresive civ I recieved c1 for free. I had a barracks, Westpoint/National Epic, Pentagon, and 4 gg's. No military civic (theocracy). Which meant they came out with c4 and commando.

If you eliminate the majority of an opposing civ in the initial first strike, then you wouldn't have much need for March. But yes, that's powerful too.

And if you are non-aggressive you need 9! more XP to pull this off.

Side question: WestPoint/NationalEpic? One of the more unique combinations I've come across. I assume you did an early GP farm in this city then converted it into a production city? Or, did you mean Heroic Epic which adds 100% hammers to military builds?

I agree your best troops can work up to it (a few of them unless you really prolong early wars by only using the 5-6 troops to take each city. Plus, those early troops will reset to 10XP if you upgrade them.
 
Air cavalry is practically the same thing, without needing to use up all the promos.

City Raider and Barrage. Boring, but effective.
 
Commando is a very powerful promotion, but because it requires c4 I rarely end up getting it. I find that I prefer other combinations of promotions. For example, for my tanks I like to have city raider 3 and collateral damage 2. I'd prefer that over c4 and commando, and the city raider line is easier to build up, because the bigger % boost makes your tanks less likely to die while attacking.

March is also very good, and it is much easier to aim for. With the red cross, march is just 1 promotion - easy.
 
I always go for a super military city, with the primary goal of getting commando out of the box.

frekk, I assume you mean gunships?
In that case, they cannot capture cities and are far less versatile than other units (though they are great to get to be blitz).
If you have a city popping level 4 or 5 units every turn, they don't need to be commando. If suddenly some enemy tanks show up you can start spamming ambush units, if they show up with a large stack of obsolete units, then you can get some blitz gunships, or anything like that.

not really on topic, but I was looking at CFCs Promotion page, and does the combat healing stack with woody and medic ones?
 
"As an aggresive civ I recieved c1 for free. I had a barracks, Westpoint/National Epic, Pentagon, and 4 gg's. No military civic (theocracy). Which meant they came out with c4 and commando."


If you added Theo + Vass, you could have gotten the "+25 vs mounted units" promotion. (I think you said in the OP that he was using mass calvary.)
Or the cover (archery) or pinch (guns) depending on who you were atacking
 
Gunships+Paratroops can capture cities 7 tiles away from the nearest city or cultured fort.

Gunpowder Commandos can capture cities 6-10 tiles away from the opponent's cultural border.

Unless you are dealing with a huge number of culturally developed inland cities, especially with 3.17, having march/amphibious units and a good sized navy makes taking cities extremely quick and gives you more bases for your air-force that can then target the inner cities while your SoD marches onward.

Where commando would really help (securing your own continent) is the timeframe when it is very difficult or impossible to get. If you are warring overseas it becomes less important.

Imperialistic helps get you more generals but then commando becomes a top-tier promotion only for 3 leaders (Boudica, Cyrus, and Ghengis - the Agg/Cha/Imp combinations).
 
Commando is a very powerful promotion, but because it requires c4 I rarely end up getting it. I find that I prefer other combinations of promotions. For example, for my tanks I like to have city raider 3 and collateral damage 2. I'd prefer that over c4 and commando, and the city raider line is easier to build up, because the bigger % boost makes your tanks less likely to die while attacking.

March is also very good, and it is much easier to aim for. With the red cross, march is just 1 promotion - easy.

3.17 standard: Armored units no longer affect collateral damage. Solver's patch is going to remove the barrage promotion from the unit as leaving it in is being considered a bug/oversight on Firaxis' part. They also cannot receive the march promotion. Whether Combat or CR is a better choice really depends on the relative tech advantage you have over your target. Bombers/Jet fighters have significant range and with commando your tanks (if you can get them in decent numbers) can take the cities they level and, hopefully, clear out enough culture to reinforce (in addition to the defensive airlift). Solo tank runs benefit from a combination of city raider and drill with some combat (or paratroopers) for stack defense.
 
I always go for a super military city, with the primary goal of getting commando out of the box.

frekk, I assume you mean gunships?
In that case, they cannot capture cities and are far less versatile than other units (though they are great to get to be blitz).
If you have a city popping level 4 or 5 units every turn, they don't need to be commando. If suddenly some enemy tanks show up you can start spamming ambush units, if they show up with a large stack of obsolete units, then you can get some blitz gunships, or anything like that.

not really on topic, but I was looking at CFCs Promotion page, and does the combat healing stack with woody and medic ones?

Yes, they do stack. Including the +15% that a GG unlocks. Medic1, Medic 3 and Ranger 3 stack for 40%. A hospital adds 10%. C4 in a neutral city with a hospital would push it to 60%. I think that's the most you can get.

As to +25% against cav, that'd be nice, but a paratrooper (24) doesn't really need it against a cav (15). I'd rather go with c5 to finish the deal and get that extra 10% healing in enemy lands.
 
Just ouf of curiosity, what national buildings did you have in your XP city?
 
Heroic Epic and Westpoint. I misspoke earlier. One time I misbuilt them too! lol
 
i always find it hard to get enough troops with that promotion tho. one lone general or an elite unit or two usually get it and get stranded deep in enemy territory before they can be backed up by others.
btw marines>paratroopers.
 
Not really, they are equals, the only difference being techs and situation. Their stats are pretty much identical, and are exactly equal in most situations.

The big differences are: marines are better on water maps, paras inland. As I rarely see the AI build many machine guns, that point is not a great advantage, though when defending they have the advantage vs. artillery.
 
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