AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, with arabia, you have a good chance to pop out a town or settler
Quartermaster
- Thread starter Elear
- Start date
You actually have the greatest probability to pop a settler from a hut *as expansionist* on Deity. It works out that way, since you can't pop a town on Deity. Can't do that on Sid though. Oystein has a table for this somewhere in the War Academy.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
yes - if you are expansionist, you have a good chance to pop a settler, because you CAN'T pop a barb 
and the AI will be ahead of you all the time
and the AI will be ahead of you all the time 
Like rolling a good start or trying for that CB sgl.
Exactly. Well, for most values of exactly. Within the subset of "good land starts", which are weeded out at turn 0, you quickly arrive at "good land starts with a goody hut yielding a settler". You could in theory go for "good land starts with a goody hut yielding a settler and two SGLs for CB/Mysticism", of course. At some point it starts to get pretty silly, of course--Mapfinder and the like can weed out step 1 of the process, but steps 2 and 3 are more of an issue, and require more of a time investment.
And, of course, even if you get all those things it's entirely possible to screw 'em up anyway.
And, of course, even if you get all those things it's entirely possible to screw 'em up anyway.
Yes, like poping the early settler and the two sgls only to find (insert name here of civ) is on a remote 10 tile island surrounded by ocean. 
One time on a small map on diety the chinese were on a 12 tiler with 2 volcanoes and jungle. They only had 3 cities and they still built about 6 wonders! Creeps.
One time on a small map on diety the chinese were on a 12 tiler with 2 volcanoes and jungle. They only had 3 cities and they still built about 6 wonders! Creeps.
I just completed a small, Warlord Histographic game for 5458 points, comfortably above the old #1 slot of 3609 points. My last game had more strategy and depth to it, since it was on Sid level, unlike this one. I have elected not to make an extensive write-up about it because I do not think there is much of interest to tell. I expanded my civilization, destroyed the weak Warlord AIs, and eventually won. Still, here are a few screenshots from the game.
My one and only scientific great leader; it only took about three dozen techs on 4 turns to get it. It was used to rush Bach's on the largest island.
After a long stretch of turns where I used CrpMapStat to attack unruly citizens, I managed to achieve 100% happy/specialist citizens.
I wonder how long it took him to complete THIS study?
It probably made this game run another hour or two, but I had to MAKE CERTAIN the Byzantines were well blockaded.
(100 modern armor - 96 in 32 armies + 65 battleships + my original warrior).
Victory.
Link to power graph: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/c/CyrilFeraan/99763/nmrlwbjeae.jpg
-Elear
My one and only scientific great leader; it only took about three dozen techs on 4 turns to get it. It was used to rush Bach's on the largest island.
After a long stretch of turns where I used CrpMapStat to attack unruly citizens, I managed to achieve 100% happy/specialist citizens.
I wonder how long it took him to complete THIS study?
It probably made this game run another hour or two, but I had to MAKE CERTAIN the Byzantines were well blockaded.
(100 modern armor - 96 in 32 armies + 65 battleships + my original warrior).
Victory.
Link to power graph: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/c/CyrilFeraan/99763/nmrlwbjeae.jpg
-Elear
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
That's true. Could you point me towards a resource that explains what is "good placement" in the milking phase? I've really never been sure and usually just try to maximixe happiness and subsequently population and not bother with specific territory tiles. 
Moreover, I'm afraid to try to expand my territory to include sea tiles because the last thing I want to do is pick up too many tiles in one form or another and run over the domination limit. One thing with this game is that I was able to stay at 65 percent and not trigger domination, whereas in previous games I went with 64 to be safe and overran it anyway.
edit: Also, it seems like cities try to grow too large in the last 100 turns, and I experienced MASS starvation on the level of about 5-6 cities per turn. Is there a way to steady population to avoid such fluctuations?
Moreover, I'm afraid to try to expand my territory to include sea tiles because the last thing I want to do is pick up too many tiles in one form or another and run over the domination limit. One thing with this game is that I was able to stay at 65 percent and not trigger domination, whereas in previous games I went with 64 to be safe and overran it anyway.edit: Also, it seems like cities try to grow too large in the last 100 turns, and I experienced MASS starvation on the level of about 5-6 cities per turn. Is there a way to steady population to avoid such fluctuations?
Calis
on time
Yeah, that's the annoying part about the AGR trait, the one additional food in the city centre. If you don't have hills or plains around it's rather difficult to avoid growth. The only thing you could do is plant a forest, then you have only one food from that tile...
.I thought about pillaging a railroaded tile to balance things out in my game, but you'll still lose food via pollution. So, do you balance your city perfectly and hope it doesn't shrink, or hope the 1 extra food balances out the pollution and it stays the same size?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, if you wait until the food bin is about 2/3 full and pillage that rail, you'll be able to handle a bunch of pollution events. Then once you get to the public trans, you can reduce pollution a lot.
Well you can always just tighten your city spacing so you don't need hospitals. No need to worry about pollution then. What's the differential here really? I mean, I know it will differ per each map size, but how many points will you lose really? I think the HoF could use more completed histographic games, in most places at least, before we need to concern ourselves with absolutely optimum strategy. It's better to have something than nothing, right? I mean, some tiny and huge spots have gotten filled up to 10 spots so far, but most of the tables have 1 or 2 entries, if even that.
True in a sense (I'd love to see more completed games and thus more of a measure of what's actually good ). But really, I think it's fair to say that most of us are trying to develop optimum strategies so as to have the top scores, rather than say, the #6 slot -- not that anything should be wrong with such a slot. The principle reason a lower slot is not really seen as good anymore is that there is such sparse competition, relatively, with under 50 different players per year regularly submitting as of 2008. I should say this is at least true for histographic games, but probably the same idea could be extended to all tables; it is not extremely difficult to actually get into the HoF, rather the challenge lies in placing high. But then, under all that logic, we're back where we started. 
If that makes sense.
But as for your other point, I wondered that too. Why do we need to pursue hospitals and pollution and consequently mass transit systems and recycling centers...IF...we could just equal the number of happy citizens through a tighter spacing scheme? Though there may be a good answer for that specific question, I do there is plenty of legitimate debate left in the issue of city spacing and similar expansion and gameplan issues, since we can find no real consensus amongst milking runs other than a few vague trends (which are often thrown out anyway in favor of better placement to fresh water, resources, etc.).
-Elear
). But really, I think it's fair to say that most of us are trying to develop optimum strategies so as to have the top scores, rather than say, the #6 slot -- not that anything should be wrong with such a slot. The principle reason a lower slot is not really seen as good anymore is that there is such sparse competition, relatively, with under 50 different players per year regularly submitting as of 2008. I should say this is at least true for histographic games, but probably the same idea could be extended to all tables; it is not extremely difficult to actually get into the HoF, rather the challenge lies in placing high. But then, under all that logic, we're back where we started. If that makes sense. But as for your other point, I wondered that too. Why do we need to pursue hospitals and pollution and consequently mass transit systems and recycling centers...IF...we could just equal the number of happy citizens through a tighter spacing scheme? Though there may be a good answer for that specific question, I do there is plenty of legitimate debate left in the issue of city spacing and similar expansion and gameplan issues, since we can find no real consensus amongst milking runs other than a few vague trends (which are often thrown out anyway in favor of better placement to fresh water, resources, etc.).
-Elear
Getting a spot on a Sid HoF table doesn't seem like a given. In my opinion, we simply won't know what "high" means until we have a bunch of placements. Sure, there exists the top spot, but some of these come as really high and have games with *really* factors which favor the human player. So, sometimes the top spot (or top spots) end up more like outliers caused (partially) by luck than a superior show of strategy for that level and map type. As an example, the standard Warlord 20k table has Moonsinger's 1265 AD as the top spot. I have the next spot at 1470 AD, then comes 1510 AD, then comes 1565 AD. Quite a significant gap between the top spot and the rest here. Also, if we accept that winning doesn't come as too difficult below Sid, I find it interesting that standard histographic demigod didn't have a spot until this month. And Calis also won the gauntlet unopposed.
Also, some factors might make a game which seems weaker at the start end up stronger later. We can't judge a good food start all too quickly now as all that good now, can we? As another note, the top Deity histographic game got played on a 60% pangea map with 7 opponents. If conventional wisdom has things right here, this game should be beatable.
Also, some factors might make a game which seems weaker at the start end up stronger later. We can't judge a good food start all too quickly now as all that good now, can we? As another note, the top Deity histographic game got played on a 60% pangea map with 7 opponents. If conventional wisdom has things right here, this game should be beatable.
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