question about the science slider . . .

[Nicci]

as i am moving up to emperor (civ3), i wanna make the most of everything i have obviously.
here's the thing: during the start of the game it doesn't seem to matter if i put the science slider on 10% or 50%. in both cases it takes 40 turns, but when u put the slider on 50% u spent more money on science!
i don't get this. does anyone else?

 

[k-a-bob]

I usually put the slider up to 90-100% at the beginning, for that very reason.

 

[thetrooper]

One city, one citizen, no worked tiles: no effect.
Many cities, more citizens, more worked tiles: might have an effect.

 

[Turner]

It also has to do with the fact that as long as you have one beaker per turn for science, you can get a tech every 40 turns. So while 10%-50% seems to be the same, it's actually capped at 40 turns. If you were to change it into the editor and make the maximum 100 turns, you'd see a difference early on.

 

[Nicci]

It also has to do with the fact that as long as you have one beaker per turn for science, you can get a tech every 40 turns. So while 10%-50% seems to be the same, it's actually capped at 40 turns.

are u saying it does make a difference when u put it on 50% even if it says 40 turns in both cases?

 

[chunkymonkey]

For example: You are researching Alphabet - which for sake of argument requires 100 beakers to discover.

At 10% science, you produce 1 beaker.
At 50% science, you produce 2 beakers.

In both of these scenarios, you would not research Alphabet within the 40 turns. However, the game has a cap on maximum research times, therefore in both situations you would research Alphabet.

This means that you have wasted spending by researching at 50%.

But be careful. Your civilisation is always growing, and after 10 turns, your city might produce 4 beakers per turn, therefore the research time will noticeably decrease...

 

[Turner]

Yeah, what ChunkyMonkey said.

It does matter in the sense that you're wasting gold. But you won't see a difference in the number of turns because of the 40 turn cap. Which, by the way, is 50 turns in Conquests.

 

[vmxa]

This is where having lots of experience with the game comes in handy. You get a feel for how your empire will grow and can use the slider accordingly.

IOW in a 40 turn game, if you expect to get more beakers from having more citizens from more towns, you may want to go at 100% to get the extra beaker each turn.
It will take time to start getting more beakers per turn and see the 40 turn drop. If you lower the slider, you do not get the extra beaker and will end up having to make it up later.

Which is the way to go depends on your goal. If you are shooting for the free tech, it may be critical to not lose that beaker.

 

[Rik Meleet]

It is usually a good strategy to go 90% or 100% science in the beginning of the game. That puts many beakers in research so that when you have your 2nd city; you will immediately notice a drop in research.

2 things are important;
1 - if your cities get unhappy, up the lux slider ! That is way more efficient than changing laborers to entertainers.
2 - in the last 1 or 2 turns before a tech is researched you can usually lower the science rate (for instance from 90% to 60%) and still get the tech in the same time. That way you are reducing the over-produced amount of beakers and turn them into gold.

 

[Nicci]

so, say i need a 100 beakers (what are those?) for ironworking.
i put science on 90% and it still takes 40 turns. what good does that do? i'm still a bit confused here.
say i put science on 90% and waste gold because of that, will it pay of in having ironworking sooner?
i only have this problem early on in the game obviously. after a while it becomes clear how the slider works.

 

[Tomoyo]

Iron working is a second-tier tech, so it may be better to put it on 20%. Keeping it high will let it drop when your city grows/when you get another city. It depends on how high a priority Iron Working is.

 

[Willem]

so, say i need a 100 beakers (what are those?) for ironworking.
i put science on 90% and it still takes 40 turns. what good does that do? i'm still a bit confused here.
say i put science on 90% and waste gold because of that, will it pay of in having ironworking sooner?
i only have this problem early on in the game obviously. after a while it becomes clear how the slider works.

No, it would just be wasting money. You have to keep checking your research rates from time to time. If you can move the slider without seeing any improvement in your turns, then you'd be better off reducing it down to 10%, the lowest you can go, or even turning a citizen into a Scientist and turning it right off. You need to have at least some research happening or you won't get the tech at all, but if increasing the slider isn't helping, then you may as well turn it down as low as possible.

And beakers are what the techs cost. I believe it something like 2 gold for one beaker, though I'm not positive about that.

 

[vmxa]

1 gold = 1 beaker with no structures to improve it (LIb/Uni). How many beakers a tech cost is a function of many things, but the key is the level and the map size.

As a baseline IW on std map at Chief is 72 beakers with no contacts. Regent it is 144, Sid 360.

So regardless of how many it takes, you accumulate beakers each turn as long as you have research above zero or a scientist. So if you make 5 beakers this turn at 100% and have some in the box you get 5 beakers closer to the breakthrough. If you set it to 10% and get 4, you are missing out on one breaker.

The key is to note how many you get per setting of the slider. IOW if 10% to 90% all yield 4 beakers, it makes no sense to use 90%, but if 100 get 5, it could be useful to get that extra beaker.

One more per turn for 30 turns could spell being first, among other things. Once the breakthrough is going to be achieved, you will want to reduce the slider to save over runs, which are lost.

I once wrote an xls to track my beakers to know what my overrun would be and change the slider and maybe citzen to avoid waste. It turns out that other tools are vailable and much easier to use as they are passive, mine required me to input the projected beakers, tedious.

To sum it up, it can make a difference to use 100 vs 90 or some other setting from the very start, even when it is saying it is 50 turns at all levels.