Questions about The BUG Mod

[EmperorFool]

. . . I need to then take the "/MODS/BUG Mod 3.5.1" folder and move it into my "install" folder, which for me is "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization iv beyond the sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods"

Yes, that sounds correct.

It does take a decent while to initialize.

Does it take longer than starting up Civ4 normally? That is essentially what loading a mod does. Can you please load one of the built-in mods like Next War and compare the times? You can create a shortcut that will launch the game and load a mod at the same time by adding

/mod="BUG Mod 3.5.1"​

to the shortcut's command line.

When I try to do a multiplayer game it just freezes me at initializing, I can't join at all. My friend says the game is waiting for me.

What exactly do you do to join a game? I assume you are not talking about initializing the mod since you've already loaded the mod, selected MULTIPLAYER, and selected the type of game you want, right? Do you then attempt to join a game and it hangs?

Note that both players must have the mod installed for this to work.

I have two BUG 3.5.1 folders when I run the installer. One that is the the "My Games\beyond the sword" and one that is "My Games\beyond the sword\MODS"

Is the one outside the Mods folder named "BUG Mod 3.5.1" or just "BUG Mod"? What does it contain.

If BUG cannot find the place where it's installed, it will look for a folder named "BUG Mod" in various places. Did you ever do the standard install? It would have put the "BUG Mod" folder in that location to store its INI files, but it wouldn't include the version number.

 

[Rakshasas]

Sorry I realize that I wasn't too clear about the whole initializing thing.

First off, yes I have already loaded BUG as a mod. I am not refering to the amount of time it takes for Civ 4 to load when a mod is also being loaded.

What I mean is that when I start a brand new game, be it with 18 civs, or much less when it is during the map gen stage I find this takes significantly longer than it used to. I tried with RingWorld, PerfectWorld, Earth3 and a few of the default map generators. It just seems to take longer than it used to. I think I'll compare the defaults some more, I could be mistaking default map gen scripts with downloaded ones. I did pick up quite a few.

Normally I wouldn't really care that it takes longer, even if it seems abnormally long, but I mention this because I have some kind of gut feeling that is telling me that there is some kind of misconfiguration which could be causing multiplayer to fail with BUG mod.

Kind of hoping someone would say, OH!!! I know exactly what you are doing wrong

---

Steps I take to join a multiplayer game.

1)Me and my friend start up Civ 4 BTS and have BUG 3.5.1 loaded as a mod
2)My friend hosts a direct IP game
3)I connect to the game
4)He sets it up, choosing maps, amount of AI... all that stuff
5)I click ready, he launches
6)Initiliazing... I let it run and it was well past 10 minutes before I went to the task manager to kill Civ4 BTS. During this time my friend has loaded the game and it says that I am connecting. My friend was kind enough to let the test go that long heh. He wants to use BUG in mp games as much as I do

-----

The folder "My Documents\My Games\beyond the sword\BUG Mod" contains:
5 help files (.chm)
CustomDomAdv <-- contains 5 .txt files
Adv Unit Naming.txt
GNU Public License.rtf

At one time I did have the standard install. I figured that since it was called standard that I might as well just do that. I didn't realize it would cause Multiplayer problems at the time.

I did however backup my CustomAssets before I did the standard install. So to uninstall, I deleted CustomAssets, put the old folder back and deleted the BUG Mod folder. I cleared up everything as best I could. I wont lie and say I could have missed something.

I then ran the install file and selected install as mod, and then tried what FAQ suggested, moving the BUG 3.5.1 folder to the install directory.

Also just to further clarify about Civ4 loading times, that really wasn't what I meant at all. I fully understand that causing more stuff to load increases loading times, I was just referring to the new game map gen loading times, as BUG is already loaded at this point and ready to go I didn't think that it should take longer.

Thank you for the response!

 

[EmperorFool]

@Rakshasas - Excellent information; thanks for the thorough treatment. If BUG is taking longer to generate maps or failing in multiplayer, I definitely want to figure out why as well and solve it.

First, map generation. I started several games each using vanilla (no custom anything), BlueMarble, and finally BUG + BlueMarble, all using the built-in Fractal map script. I used SINGLE PLAYER, CUSTOM GAME, and Large Fractal. I timed from hitting GO to the Dawn of Man screen appearing.

The results were essentially the same for all three, given that I was counting in my head. The first start for each took about 5-6 seconds, and each new game I started (without restarting civ) was created in 3 seconds. I exited civ between each block of tests, of course.

I'm ignoring the first test I ran (BUG) as a) it took much longer to start up Civ and 10 seconds to generate the first map. I assume that my system is caching a lot of the Civ4 code, and if I restarted and tested vanilla first, I'd get the same result. Successive BUG tests matched the other setups, and this is a good demonstration of why caching is so damn cool. The reason for the 5 vs. 3 second times is probably a matter of the video card caching the textures while Civ is running.

If you perform tests yourself, I'd love to hear your findings. My tests were hardly scientific and not varied enough to draw a solid conclusion, but I think it's close enough until someone does better testing.

No unfortunately, I haven't tried multiplayer at all. I believe I can dig up my disc and install a second copy of Civ4 and test multiplayer locally, but I just moved and cannot promise to do that "real soon". Let me ask a few more questions instead:

• Did your friend move the BUG folder like you did?
• Can you play non-BUG direct IP games with your friend?
• Can you try a built-in map script with BUG multiplayer?
• Can you post the file Logs/PythonDbg.log and logs/PythonErr.log?

I want to eliminate as many variables as possible to help find the problem.

If anyone out there has played a multiplayer BUG game, can you please chime in with a "Yes, I've seen BUG work multiplayer"? Thanks!

Oh, last thing. The "BUG Mod" folder in the BTS My Games folder sounds like it was from the previous install. There should be a similar folder containing the same files inside the mods folder.

Mods/
  BUG Mod 3.5.1/
    BUG Mod 3.5.1.ini
    Assets/
    BUG Mod/
      help files, INI files, changelog, etc.

 

[cripp7]

One question, if BUG 3.5.1 is installed as a mod would there be a CustomAssets folder? seems somehow I have Bug installed as both a standard and mod. I only want the mod, the uninstaller only does the mod. Do I just rename the CustomAssets folder?

 

[EmperorFool]

One question, if BUG 3.5.1 is installed as a mod would there be a CustomAssets folder?

Civ4 creates an empty CustomAssets folder that matches the structure of the Assets folder (folders only, no files) when you start up the game. If you delete it, it will be recreated anew.

seems somehow I have Bug installed as both a standard and mod.

Right-click the CustomAssets folder and choose Properties. If it says "0 Files", then it's just the standard Civ4 empty folder I mentioned above. If it has files, then you either have BUG or something else entirely installed there.

I only want the mod, the uninstaller only does the mod. Do I just rename the CustomAssets folder?

There should be an installer for each way you installed BUG, but as BUG only installs files, you can safely manually delete it. If you haven't installed anything else to CustomAssets (or want whatever that is removed), rename/delete the folder.

 

[JujuLautre]

I forget, when you control the holy city, can you see every city on the map with that religion? If not, then this could be semi-spoiler. Otherwise, you'd have to know exactly how many cities there are everywhere (not possible if there are any vassals or civs you haven't contacted) and multiply it by the percentage in the F7 screen to get an estimate.

Speaking about spoilerish things in another thread, I remembered that I discovered recently the "Pericles has built Sparta in a far away land" feature.

However, at the beginning of the game, you have no way to trade for cities, so no way to know about other player's cities; am I wrong? Isn't that spoilerish information ?

 

[EmperorFool]

However, at the beginning of the game, you have no way to trade for cities, so no way to know about other player's cities; am I wrong? Isn't that spoilerish information ?

You should only see that message for civs you've met. At that point, why can't you ... oh, you can't get into the trade screen without being able to trade some other item. Do all of these count?

• OB [Writing]
• Techs [Alphabet]
• Resources [connected to trade network]
• Gold [Currency]
• Civics [they can switch to a civic you are running]

What else allows you to open the trade dialog and trade cities?

I hadn't thought of that; nice catch.

 

[Rakshasas]

• Did your friend move the BUG folder like you did?
• Can you play non-BUG direct IP games with your friend?
• Can you try a built-in map script with BUG multiplayer?
• Can you post the file Logs/PythonDbg.log and logs/PythonErr.log?

---------

Oh, last thing. The "BUG Mod" folder in the BTS My Games folder sounds like it was from the previous install. There should be a similar folder containing the same files inside the mods folder.

Mods/
  BUG Mod 3.5.1/
    BUG Mod 3.5.1.ini
    Assets/
    BUG Mod/
      help files, INI files, changelog, etc.

My friend did move the folder, we have played non BUG games before, about 3 to 4 times and once with a 3rd person included.

As far as I know we used a default map script, but honestly I didn't confirm that, I'll have to wait a day or two to try that out. Also I do not have those log files at all. My Games\beyond the sword\Mods\Logs correct?

Oh and that BUG Mod folder keeps appearing from the installer. I am selecting install as a mod, and that folder keeps reappearing. Do you think I need to do a manual install as mod, rather than using the executable?

Thanks again

 

[EmperorFool]

My friend did move the folder, we have played non BUG games before, about 3 to 4 times and once with a 3rd person included.

Okay, that's good to know. It sounds like it's BUG or something related.

My Games\beyond the sword\Mods\Logs correct?

My Games\Beyond the Sword\Logs -- no "Mods" in between. Each mod overwrites the others' logs when Civ starts up. Just make sure to grab and PM/post them immediately after you attempt it again.

Oh and that BUG Mod folder keeps appearing from the installer. I am selecting install as a mod, and that folder keeps reappearing. Do you think I need to do a manual install as mod, rather than using the executable?

It's possible the installer does it even for the Mod install. BUG will look in many places for that folder, so it shouldn't be a problem. If you can play a single-player BUG game with that install, it shouldn't be a problem for multiplayer. I'm really preplexed that it's just hanging. I would expect no interface, or a Python exception, or something happening . . . not nothing!

The logs will help me to see where things are going wrong, hopefully.

 

[JujuLautre]

I hadn't thought of that; nice catch.

Well, it's really not *that* important. Adding tons of if() just to catch that? Is it worthwhile ?

I mean, you could argue that this information should be available at any moment, since it is already available at "almost every" moment (well, not if you are at war with the civ; I don't know, do you have a test for that ? )

 

[EmperorFool]

I looked at the code for CvPlayer, and it's pretty informative. It has a handy function canTradeWith() that totally won't work for us, but I can adapt it to my needs by copying it. The problem is that the first test--isAtWar--allows trading for people at war. Bah!

My list was almost complete:

isTechTrading()
isGoldTrading()
isMapTrading()
canTradeNetworkWith()
isOpenBordersTrading()
isDefensivePactTrading()
isPermanentAllianceTrading()
isVassalStateTrading()

Oddly, I don't see Civics, DoW, Stop Trading, or Religion. Normally you have to offer something meaty for an AI to agree to any of those trades, but I have had Friendly AIs agree to gift me a civic/religion change before--even war once IIRC.

Edit

This is strange. I have found that even when you technically cannot trade with an AI (canTradeWith() returns False and there is no "Let's trade" button on the diplomacy window), you can still CTRL + click them in the scoreboard to bring up the trade window. Here you can see the cities for AIs even when you can't trade anything with them.

While it's not a major thing, BUG is about UG, and that means doing some due diligence to plug information leaks. So I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I'll wait to see what our official UG-enforcer Ruff_Hi says about this issue.

 

[Rakshasas]

Alright cool. It might be a little while before I can try it and send the logs, but I'll try to do it sometime this week.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[EmperorFool]

@Rakshasas - Glad to help. I really want BUG to work multiplayer, and since I haven't tested that myself (the horror!), I'm very happy that you're willing to trudge through it for me.

 

[JujuLautre]

ctrl-click to open the trade screen? Hey, I did not know that

If you can really see the cities there, then there should be no problem.

 

[EmperorFool]

Yes, that's a very handy shortcut. BUG has that and all the other shortcuts listed in the Sevopedia.

Warning: ALT + click will DoW immediately without requesting confirmation!

 

[ruff_hi]

ctrl-click to open the trade screen? Hey, I did not know that

Yes, that's a very handy shortcut. BUG has that and all the other shortcuts listed in the Sevopedia.

Actually, both ctrl- and alt- click are listed in the hover when you put your mouse over a leader in the score board. I use alt-click all the time - I don't want to talk to you ... I just want to kill you.

While it's not a major thing, BUG is about UG, and that means doing some due diligence to plug information leaks. So I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I'll wait to see what our official UG-enforcer Ruff_Hi says about this issue.

errr - what was the question again?

 

[EmperorFool]

errr - what was the question again?

Under some rare circumstances, the alert about a civ founding a city in a distant land may provide spoiler information. I think I check for them being a vassal or at war with you, but we were wondering if there were other cases.

 

[ruff_hi]

I was playing a game with the latest BUG the other day and these new 'city founded' alerts were totally new. The scary thing was that it game me an indication of how REX'ing the AI is at Monarch and actually kicked me into gear to get my own cities out. Sure, the info is there but for the 'average' player, this is a huge leg up. Is it anti-UG? In my opinion, NO.

Now, you say RARE ... how rare? [scrolls back up and actually reads the thread ...] ... hmmn - I check the trade screen pretty often and haven't noticed exactly when cities become available. I'll see if I can start a demo game to test this.

I would say that we should link it to something concrete ... such as open borders or tech trading (and yes, WAR would invalidate both of those so hide the city founding too). I'll run a test game and see when the option does actually pop up.

 

[ruff_hi]

I ran a test game and here is the situation ... you can see AI cities when you have a trade route and they have more than 1 city - I tested it by playing at deity level and saw the AI's second city at turn 7. I WB'd the trade route.

Thus, that should be the criteria for us displaying that alert.

 

[EmperorFool]

You can see AI cities when you have a trade route.

You mean when you are connected to their trade network? In my standard test game I have no connections with anyone, nor do my two cities have trade routes with each other (no roads yet), and I don't have Fishing/Sailing (no trade by river/coast), and I can see Barcelona in the trade window.

Hmm, I can see it on the map, too. Let me check some AIs whose cities I can't see on the map . . . Yup, I can see Hatshepsut's 2nd city in the trade screen but not on the map. Maybe I misunderstood your post.