Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Bartleby]

OK, here's the long story. I'm in Monarchy (no WW) playing AW and researching at 100% (no AI lux, no lux slider) and I haven't bothered to research Nationalism yet (dunno if they have Espionage). The Civilopedia entry for Initiate Propaganda said it causes cities to "revolt and maybe depose" or some such, so it made me curious.
On a related note, how come all of the AI can stay in Democracy for so long?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I think I'm not using the forum/thread search correctly because I don't see the "tech costs" keywords in the results it's bringing up. Anyway, I'm searching for the answer to this question:

Did the v.1.29 patch substantially change the fundamentals of tech values or costs as it relates to: a) the value the AI places on any given tech at various times, and b) the decreasing research cost of a particular tech relative to the increase in civs which have obtained the tech ?

A link to the appropriate thread would be sufficient if you don't care to repeat an explanation already given elsewhere. Thank you.

First off, check this thread which shows the research cost formula. I am not aware that 1.29 or any patch level really changed this formula much, if at all. The value, as you can tell from the formula, has a variety of factors from the cost, beakers per turn, number of civilizations in the game, etc. Your second question is correct - the number of civs that already know it make the cost go down, but I don't think 1.29 changed this at all.

What is the terrain pcx for the bonus grassland called?

I'm not quite sure, but when I checked I think it is tnt.pcx in your /Civilization III/Art/Terrain/ folder.

OK, here's the long story. I'm in Monarchy (no WW) playing AW and researching at 100% (no AI lux, no lux slider) and I haven't bothered to research Nationalism yet (dunno if they have Espionage). The Civilopedia entry for Initiate Propaganda said it causes cities to "revolt and maybe depose" or some such, so it made me curious.
On a related note, how come all of the AI can stay in Democracy for so long?

They aren't really that productive in Democracy - they probably have cities where half the citizens are entertainers, they're losing a lot of food per turn, they don't have much shields/commerce. Basically, they are in Democracy, but they can't do much.

 

[thetrooper]

I had an unexpected riot in my capitol.

The Civilopedia entry for Initiate Propaganda said it causes cities to "revolt and maybe depose" or some such, so it made me curious.

Strange - the capital can't flip. So why bother? Now, I'm curious too.

 

[Bartleby]

Now, I'm curious too.

Well, let's not overlook the other possibility...

...does it mean I got careless?

edit:
to add...about the other thing, the Democracy business; what I don't understand is how can they not have been overthown yet? they must surely be at max. WW.

 

[vmxa]

First threshold: 25% of your people become unhappy (Republic)
50% unhappy (democracy)
Second threshold: 50% unhappy (Republic)
100% unhappy (Democracy)
Third threshold: 100% unhappy (Republic)
Government overthrown (Democracy)
*Republic can never be overthrown


First threshold: 30 war weariness points (WW)
Second threshold: 60 WW
Third threshold: 90WW (Democracy)
120WW (Republic)

 

[LivingDog]

hi all,

I am as newbie as they get. I think it best for me to let you know what little I do know so when you reply - if you reply - you can not go over my head. My only excuse is that I have been playing for ~3 weeks.

I know how to:
1) create any type person or building within a city,
2) roads, mines, enforcements, irrigation, and
3) get goodies from small tribes.

E.g. my latest build is 11 Greek cities, separated by 4 squares (I made it a grid 4x3 - I know thats 12... I am still building), each tied by roads, each with Granaries and Barracks (I know that makes the soldiers veteran in the city they are created), plus other things like Cathedral, Courthouses, etc.

The reason I have so much without a conflict yet is that I picked a huge Pangea map with only 1 rival - Persia. So far I haven't run across them yet - just small tribes which, when they threaten my enforced soldiers (hoplites, cavalry, catapults, chariots, etc.) they get pummeled pretty fast.

Now my question: with all the mines I have built and reinforced in my area of influence, how come I am always running on 0 gold? I know soldiers require pay - but I stopped building them once I had each city reinforced with at least 1 of each...

Anyway, thx for any help you are willing to give me... oh and I checked the FAQ for "treasury" and "gold" and there was nothing on it.

 

[Ansar]

First of all: Welcome to CFC!

Now, Republic is usually a choice government, given it provides a +1 commerce on every tile that already produces one commerce. Also, are you sure you dont have too many units?, this includes workers too, just incase you dont know. Are all your tiles roaded? And attaching a save using the Manage Attachments feature at the bottom of the page will help.

Second, never play on huge with one opponent, its not that good of training.

Lastly, I noticed you said you spaced your cities 4 tiles apart, that is not good on any level, a CxxC or CxxxC pattern is good in moderation, but CxxxxC is not good, so better change that too.


Well, thats all I can think of for now, so good luck!

 

[The 777 Hoax]

Welcome to CFC!

Alright here we go.

First off, on city placement, the basic rule of thumb is to make your cities CxxC, where C = city and x = tile. Spacing them too far apart causes corruption, which takes away shields and commerce.

Second, to increase gold, you can change governments. For a lot of gold, switch to republic, but someone else can inform you about that because I'm very bad with republic. I usually use monarchy.

Also, you can use workers to work tiles which will make your make more food, shields, and commerce.

Roads = commerce
Mines = shields
Irrigation = food

Now, a lot of people think commerce is the same thing as gold. It isn't. When managing your cities, some commerce goes to happiness, some goes to science, some goes to your treasury (your actual gold).

Major x-post with Ansar

 

[vmxa]

Go to the F1 screen and you can see where the money is going and how much is coming in. I would expect that you have a problem with not making enough income and too much maint and support cost.

You did not say what the sliders are set to, so it could be running with all science and lux and no taxes. If it is being run that way and you are getting a decent interval of break throught, then you do not have a problem, as long as the pop is content.

With large distances on a large map, you can expect to have a fair amount of corruption as well. Once you see what is the expenses, you can maybe cut down on some. Best to just make more money by working rivers, bonus tiles and getting tose towns up to cities.

 

[yagtag7]

Why does the AI always have so little gold?

 

[vmxa]

Poor management, that is why you do not want to use govenors and automated workers. The AI will build all structures and too many troops and too few workers. It will place towns in poor location, especially whn a resources will show up there later.

 

[gmaharriet]

Welcome to CFC, LivingDog!!!

Now my question: with all the mines I have built and reinforced in my area of influence, how come I am always running on 0 gold?

You've already received some good advice. I'll try to add just a bit.

Do you know what creates gold (commerce)? and do you know how to go to the "City View" to see which tiles your citizens are working?

Most gold comes from roads (1 gold per turn) and/or rivers(1 gold per turn) if you have a citizen working on them. A citizen working on a tile with a road AND a river creates 2 gold per turn while you're in Despotism. Changing to Republic will increase that by 1 more gold. So try to build as many roads as possible and on river tiles is even better.

There are other ways to get gold...trading to other civs, putting a citizen to work on a hill or mountain with a gold resource (but you won't get food doing this), conquering AI cities, and other things. But in the early game working roads and rivers is the easiest way.

 

[LivingDog]

First of all: Welcome to CFC!

Now, Republic is usually a choice government, given it provides a +1 commerce on every tile that already produces one commerce. Also, are you sure you dont have too many units?, this includes workers too, just incase you dont know. Are all your tiles roaded? And attaching a save using the Manage Attachments feature at the bottom of the page will help.

Second, never play on huge with one opponent, its not that good of training.

Lastly, I noticed you said you spaced your cities 4 tiles apart, that is not good on any level, a CxxC or CxxxC pattern is good in moderation, but CxxxxC is not good, so better change that too.


Well, thats all I can think of for now, so good luck!

see... now you spoke above my head... all i understood was tile spacing: great CxxC from now on.

Republic? Am I playing that? I just achieved it in the game Despot->Monarchy->Republic.

Oh I also now how to stop a revolt - just turn all tthe unhappy citizens into entertainers... if theres like 5 entertainers then i'' make 1 or 2 scientists... who needs TAXES!!?!? LOL!

well, i liked the huge map (my latest attempt) b/c i am just trying to learn how to build effectively without outside interference... i played it again - now i hav 12 cities and the persian guy contacted me - his warriors ran into my hoplite.

OH! and I can place cities within the squares of the current grid.

thx for the help!

Welcome to CFC!

Alright here we go.

First off, on city placement, the basic rule of thumb is to make your cities CxxC, where C = city and x = tile. Spacing them too far apart causes corruption, which takes away shields and commerce.

Second, to increase gold, you can change governments. For a lot of gold, switch to republic, but someone else can inform you about that because I'm very bad with republic. I usually use monarchy.

Also, you can use workers to work tiles which will make your make more food, shields, and commerce.

Roads = commerce
Mines = shields
Irrigation = food

Now, a lot of people think commerce is the same thing as gold. It isn't. When managing your cities, some commerce goes to happiness, some goes to science, some goes to your treasury (your actual gold).

Major x-post with Ansar

CxxC - got that. Will make my grid this way now:

CxxxxC
x......x
x......x
x......x
x......x
CxxxxC

to

CxxxxC
x......x
xxxCxx
x......x
x......x
CxxxxC

It doesn't work... I wanted a symmetric grid... - ok ok - i admit it - im ANAL!

anyway i got the idea now.

But your idea:

Roads = commerce
Mines = shields
Irrigation = food

Roads: if i just have a bunch of useless roads, my commerce goes up??
Mines: mines are shields!? OHHhhh... i c... i thot that the citizens make them somehow - like when i zoom in on a city i see unhappy ppl - and they have a shield attached to their icon - i guess that means they are working the mine a bit... makes sense. no?

Irrigation = food. yep, that one i got.

I need gold.

BTW, why is it that "dangerously low" (meaning 0 gold) allows me to continue to play? ... unless it's b/c i m playing the newbie level and it's very "forgiving"??

thx for the help!

Go to the F1 screen and you can see where the money is going and how much is coming in. I would expect that you have a problem with not making enough income and too much maint and support cost.

You did not say what the sliders are set to, so it could be running with all science and lux and no taxes. If it is being run that way and you are getting a decent interval of break throught, then you do not have a problem, as long as the pop is content.

With large distances on a large map, you can expect to have a fair amount of corruption as well. Once you see what is the expenses, you can maybe cut down on some. Best to just make more money by working rivers, bonus tiles and getting tose towns up to cities.

F1??? cool ... i will try the other keys - thx!

Soldiers are set to? I have them sit in important places "Fortified." - that wat u mean?

CORRUPTION?!?! oh wow... yeah - i HAVE to check the expenses screen - THX!

1) working rivers?? i can do that???
2) bonus tiles? ohhhh... u mean the tiles with things on them - like cows, goats, stacks of hay, metals, etc... yeah - i go there set up a mine but have NO idea if they r helping at all... thx dude!
3) towns to cities? ...isn't that what i am doing? i mean i have them build - asap - barracks, granaries, etc. The little villages with like wine or spice i cant build up - so you must mean what i am doing...

thx a mill!

 

[LivingDog]

Poor management, that is why you do not want to use govenors and automated workers. The AI will build all structures and too many troops and too few workers. It will place towns in poor location, especially whn a resources will show up there later.

oh hec! i noticed that from the start! i always control what my cities are building next - they'll run u into the ground instantly building soldier after soldier and then start building some monument that takes 1000 steps! then u gotta cut it off and loose all those shields... yeesh.

the most shield i ever lost (so far was 127(150? - i forget - didn't care actually) b/c i needed to build an aqueduct for the city. i noticed that as soon as the aqueduct shows up - i build it asap!

thx for the help!

 

[Ansar]

make sure to work tiles that are needed, not useless tiles...

like vmxa said, the F1 lets you view the domestic advisor, which lets you see how much of your income you are spending on taxes/science/entertainment. In this case, you might be spending 0% on tax60% on science/ and 40% on entertainment. Or something of the sort, but that is not good, you have to let some cash flow.

good luck on your game.

 

[LivingDog]

Welcome to CFC, LivingDog!!!

You've already received some good advice. I'll try to add just a bit.

Do you know what creates gold (commerce)? and do you know how to go to the "City View" to see which tiles your citizens are working?

Most gold comes from roads (1 gold per turn) and/or rivers(1 gold per turn) if you have a citizen working on them. A citizen working on a tile with a road AND a river creates 2 gold per turn while you're in Despotism. Changing to Republic will increase that by 1 more gold. So try to build as many roads as possible and on river tiles is even better.

There are other ways to get gold...trading to other civs, putting a citizen to work on a hill or mountain with a gold resource (but you won't get food doing this), conquering AI cities, and other things. But in the early game working roads and rivers is the easiest way.

creates gold: no.(ah!)
City View: F1?
Roads: u mean like all possible roads everywhere even though my civilization doesnt need them? (i mena i dont think they need them - but if it pays off in the game call me CHA-CHING!

BTW, ur comments on gold was EXACTLY what i needed to hear! thx gma!

i cant send u a pm... gma = "grandma?"

THX A WHOLE BUNCH WITH SUGAR ON TOP!

 

[The 777 Hoax]

CxxC - got that. Will make my grid this way now:

CxxxxC
x......x
x......x
x......x
x......x
CxxxxC

to

CxxxxC
x......x
xxxCxx
x......x
x......x
CxxxxC

It doesn't work... I wanted a symmetric grid... - ok ok - i admit it - im ANAL!

anyway i got the idea now.

Well, the thing about CxxC spacing is that you don't have to follow it. Sometimes you can make an exception and make CxxxC if you are trying to get a resource or river or something next to your city. Also, it's kind of hard to make a definite grid for city spacing. I suppose you could make it symmetrical:
CxxCxxC
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx
CxxCxxC

But your idea:

Roads = commerce
Mines = shields
Irrigation = food

Roads: if i just have a bunch of useless roads, my commerce goes up??
Mines: mines are shields!? OHHhhh... i c... i thot that the citizens make them somehow - like when i zoom in on a city i see unhappy ppl - and they have a shield attached to their icon - i guess that means they are working the mine a bit... makes sense. no?

Irrigation = food. yep, that one i got.

In order to get the commerce that come from roads, the tiles have to be worked by a citizen (the citizen has to be a laborer; for example, entertainers can't work tiles). In the city management screen, you can tell if a tile is being worked when you see the food, shield, and commerce icons on it.

And yes, all buildings and units cost a certain amount of shields. If you create a mine and a citizen (again, it has to be a laborer) is working the tile, that tile gets an extra shield.

BTW, why is it that "dangerously low" (meaning 0 gold) allows me to continue to play? ... unless it's b/c i m playing the newbie level and it's very "forgiving"??

That's because you're playing on the Chieftan level, which is the easiest. Yes it is forgiving because there is no penalty for having 0 gold. Once you go to Warlord and above though, you'll be forced to sell improvements or disband units.

thx for the help!

You're welcome.

EDIT - I think that's my longest post ever.

 

[gmaharriet]

creates gold: no.(ah!)
City View: F1?

No, not F1...that's the Domestic Advisor. I don't know if you're playing vanilla civ or C3C. You can double-click on the city center or (at least in C3C) right click on the city and select "zoom to Tokyo (or whatever the city name may be)". This will give you a view of the tiles workable by that city and show you which of those tiles your population (citizens) are working. You can change which tile is being worked by clicking on the tile (turns the citizen into an entertainer temporarily), then click on the tile you want him to work and he goes back to work there. That way you can move him to a tile producing more gold (or more food, or more shields).

Roads: u mean like all possible roads everywhere even though my civilization doesnt need them? (i mena i dont think they need them - but if it pays off in the game call me CHA-CHING!

No, just the tiles your citizens are actually working. The larger your population, the more tiles can be worked in each city. The more cities, the more tiles worked in your entire empire.

BTW, ur comments on gold was EXACTLY what i needed to hear! thx gma!

i cant send u a pm... gma = "grandma?"

THX A WHOLE BUNCH WITH SUGAR ON TOP!

I think you can send me a PM with just gmaharriet. You can also click on my "username" and it will give you some choices, like "Send a message via email to gmaharriet" and "Send a private message to gmaharriet". I'd be happy to try to help.

BTW, yup, I'm a grandma with a 7 1/2 year old grandson. I'm not the oldest member here, but darned close to it.

 

[LivingDog]

Well, the thing about CxxC spacing is that you don't have to follow it. Sometimes you can make an exception and make CxxxC if you are trying to get a resource or river or something next to your city. Also, it's kind of hard to make a definite grid for city spacing. I suppose you could make it symmetrical:
CxxCxxC
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx
CxxCxxC



In order to get the commerce that come from roads, the tiles have to be worked by a citizen (the citizen has to be a laborer; for example, entertainers can't work tiles). In the city management screen, you can tell if a tile is being worked when you see the food, shield, and commerce icons on it.

And yes, all buildings and units cost a certain amount of shields. If you create a mine and a citizen (again, it has to be a laborer) is working the tile, that tile gets an extra shield.



That's because you're playing on the Chieftan level, which is the easiest. Yes it is forgiving because there is no penalty for having 0 gold. Once you go to Warlord and above though, you'll be forced to sell improvements or disband units.



You're welcome.

EDIT - I think that's my longest post ever.

To cody_the_genius:
grids - yeah, once i went back to the game i realized that i was being silly about the cities being on a symmetrical grid. Also, working only useful grids - yes, thats the key. And I can check which are more useful by right-clicking!

Tiles: OHHhhh... i c - i always thought that was just a random display. does a tile get worked if i have nothing on it? and if I do then i guess it returns more goods..? thx c_the_g!

Now I'll reply to all via cody_the_genius' reply ...

F1 and the sliders... the SLIDERS!!!

I was immediately able to turn a profit using the sliders. Also, now that I use F1 I am in control of "everything" that the game allows me to control. I knew about that screen (I would click one of the top left buttons) but had NO idea how incredibly useful it is! SO...

THX TO ALL!!! (in alphabetical order, with special 'hugs' to gmaharriet

Ansar_the_King, cody_the_genius, gmaharriet, and last but definitely not least, vxma! WooHooo! thx u guys ... ill b back when i have more newbie questions for ya'!

............. ............. ............. ............. ​

 

[Rurik]

First off, check this thread which shows the research cost formula. I am not aware that 1.29 or any patch level really changed this formula much, if at all. The value, as you can tell from the formula, has a variety of factors from the cost, beakers per turn, number of civilizations in the game, etc. Your second question is correct - the number of civs that already know it make the cost go down, but I don't think 1.29 changed this at all.



I'm not quite sure, but when I checked I think it is tnt.pcx in your /Civilization III/Art/Terrain/ folder.



They aren't really that productive in Democracy - they probably have cities where half the citizens are entertainers, they're losing a lot of food per turn, they don't have much shields/commerce. Basically, they are in Democracy, but they can't do much.

Ginger Ale, that link to the thread on tech research costs was perfect for me and just what I was looking for....just for which I was looking. (?)

BTW: I think I figured what I did wrong on my keyword search...I re-found the tech cost thread using the search function.

Thanks again.

Using a sheet of 8-1/2x11 sheet of graph paper (10 sq/in) isn't the easiest for sketching my game map because it's tough estimating where my starting location should be (the civ map fits a rectangular sheet in a skewed manner).

I only have MSPaint and don't see how to make a master of an accurate 100x100 tile civ diamond grid. Does anyone have a link or attachment available?

BTW: I checked the art files of the game and found only colored samples of the diamond grid for world generation...not workable for me.

I found a website that has a free PDF generator for graph paper with a 60* diamond trapezoid grid.

http://www.incompetech.com/beta/hexagonalGraphPaper/diamond.html