Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[EMan]

...If you want to play Civ 3 for high scores then it (or even CxC) is the way to go...

Agreed......until all your territory has been worked (viz. Deforested/Irrigated/Railroaded), then there are 2 "City Redeployment & Consolidation" strategies to improve your score:

1. Take advantage of Sea Tiles not counting towards the Domination Limit by putting cities on the Coast within reach of at least 2 Sea Tiles per city....Some "pros & cons" scoring analysis may be required if you have non-grassland land tiles within the new city's 21-square radius.

2. Abandon as many cities as you can in your territory whilst still controlling all the tiles from a neighboring Metropolis. For example, each city center tile is worth 1-1.5 points for Happy People (2 or 3 food), whereas an irrigated, railroaded grassland tile is worth 3 points (1 Happy Person + 1 Specialist). Note: A City Center on a Hill, using an Agricultural civ, like Maya, will not score more points, per se, if abandoned.

 

[btfx]

I am playing on Warlord, I think I will move up one level after this. I am also playing No Barbarians, so I will reinstate them too. Do they do any damage so long as there is no money in the treasury?

Edit: Another thing, can you unload units from armies? Can you upgrade units within them? Can Elite units within armies create an MGL?

 

[Aabraxan]

They can kill unescorted workers and settlers. I frequently put together a small pack of archers that spends the AA barb hunting. Every time you disperse a barb encampment, it's worth 25 gold.

Edit: . . . and the archers can get promoted.

 

[Norton II]

Edit: Another thing, can you unload units from armies? Can you upgrade units within them? Can Elite units within armies create an MGL?

No to all three.

 

[btfx]

Damn.
Damn.
Damn.
...another question, when you enter the industrial ages (before you make any industrial discoveries) your workers change appearance. Do they work faster too, like engineers in Civ2?

By the way, I'm lovin' thins barricade thing.

Edit: Where does the AI waste all their gold. For about 1/3 of the game they are poor, and will refuse offers like "everything in my possession" for 1 gpt. What's up with that? Also, why so clingy to their cities? I think we aren't understanding each other. When I ask America for Miami, that means "I must have saltpeter, give me Miami, or I will take it by force, and then some." They seem to think it means, "Give us your citizens, so I can make them slaves, and hurt your feelings". I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what are the proper times to try and trade cities and what kind of prices can I expect?

Edit: Has anyone ever received a positive response to "Grant us a loan of gold?" is it something like 35 gold in exchange for 2 gpt? By the way, I have succeeded in doing that to other nations previously, with big numbers too, I once funded China, 5500 for 297 gpt or something like that, they took over their entire continent with a series of loans like this. We both nearly doubled our money. When is it possible to do this? Again, I have tried to repeat this, but the AI has refused deals like 60 gold for 2 gpt. That's just ridiculous to any human...

 

[sercer88]

money over time increases value, so you want to be on the recieving end of gpt deals, as you will recieve more. ie: give an AI 90 gold, and recieve 5 gpt for 20 turns (an increase of 10 gold over 20 turns.)
but, you won't be able to get gpt if your rep has been trashed, or if the AI's treasury isn't increasing

In my experiences, the only time the AI will give you a city is if they are negotiating for peace (ie, losing the war badly and really really want peace.)

oh, and the AI never trade cities, it is only a one-sided deal in that aspect: ie, you can't expect the AI to give up even their smallest, most useless town, for your size 20 metropolis with all of the wonders of the world

 

[Norton II]

Damn.
Damn.
Damn.
...another question, when you enter the industrial ages (before you make any industrial discoveries) your workers change appearance. Do they work faster too, like engineers in Civ2?

No, but when you get replaceable parts (3 techs into the IA if you beeline for it), their speed doubles. You can also double their speed by switching to fascism, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Edit: Where does the AI waste all their gold. For about 1/3 of the game they are poor, and will refuse offers like "everything in my possession" for 1 gpt. What's up with that?

If they don't have any gpt to trade, they won't trade it. Their gold goes to the same places yours does: research, building maintenance, and unit support, but not lux--they use entertainers instead of the lux slider. Also, they don't build enough workers and build lots of unnecessary buildings, so maintenance costs and a lack of roads reduce their income as well.

Also, why so clingy to their cities? I think we aren't understanding each other. When I ask America for Miami, that means "I must have saltpeter, give me Miami, or I will take it by force, and then some." They seem to think it means, "Give us your citizens, so I can make them slaves, and hurt your feelings". I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what are the proper times to try and trade cities and what kind of prices can I expect?

You can't trade for cities in Conquests--you can only demand them or obtain them in exchange for peace. It's easiest to obtain small, undeveloped, and relatively corrupt cities that don't have resources nearby. They'd be very unlikely to give up a city with saltpeter in its radius.

 

[btfx]

money over time increases value, so you want to be on the recieving end of gpt deals, as you will recieve more. ie: give an AI 90 gold, and recieve 5 gpt for 20 turns (an increase of 10 gold over 20 turns.)
but, you won't be able to get gpt if your rep has been trashed, or if the AI's treasury isn't increasing

Yeah, it has worked for me before, but the AI almost never has gpt. And I don't think it understands that having a 5000 gold stash, means you can afford some gpt.

In my experiences, the only time the AI will give you a city is if they are negotiating for peace (ie, losing the war badly and really really want peace.)

I guess nobody I've been at war with has ever wanted peace that bad.

oh, and the AI never trade cities, it is only a one-sided deal in that aspect...

Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply two-sided trade. I get why that would be pointless.

No, but when you get replaceable parts (3 techs into the IA if you beeline for it), their speed doubles. You can also double their speed by switching to fascism, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Ahh! Thanks! That's very good to know!

If they don't have any gpt to trade, they won't trade it. Their gold goes to the same places yours does: research, building maintenance, and unit support, but not lux--they use entertainers instead of the lux slider. Also, they don't build enough workers and build lots of unnecessary buildings, so maintenance costs and a lack of roads reduce their income as well.

That would explain why in the early game they rarely if ever consider even 1 gpt payments.

You can't trade for cities in Conquests--you can only demand them or obtain them in exchange for peace. It's easiest to obtain small, undeveloped, and relatively corrupt cities that don't have resources nearby. They'd be very unlikely to give up a city with saltpeter in its radius.

Hmm, yes, I suppose I was expecting them to be more realistic..... Recall Germany between WWI and WWII? They got land. Land has always been traded like that...

Oh! New question! Does punishment work? I read a few War academy articles on punishment, so let's say I went to Portugal and pounded out their capitol's population with artillery, and left craters where their strategic resources used to be. Does the AI understand the significance of my actions? Will it be more likely to give me wine for free/cheap in the future?

Also: Cartage is a tiny 5 city country, with two of the cities being disconnected from the rest. Now, I asked the Iroquois, Aztecs, and Americans for what money they had in their treasury, and they gave in. Carthage on the other hand seems to be resistant to threats. This could be because they are on a different continent, well-separated from my own, but I don't know... Anyone know why they seem to act so counter-intuitively. Also, when I am weak, the AIs often ask me for tribute, do they do the same for each other.

 

[Norton II]

Hmm, yes, I suppose I was expecting them to be more realistic..... Recall Germany between WWI and WWII? They got land. Land has always been traded like that...

Well, we didn't exactly trade with Germany for land after those wars; we--or rather, our allies--took it. In exchange, Germany was allowed to continue to exist. That's pretty much the way it works in Civ3, at least with cities.

Oh! New question! Does punishment work? I read a few War academy articles on punishment, so let's say I went to Portugal and pounded out their capitol's population with artillery, and left craters where their strategic resources used to be. Does the AI understand the significance of my actions? Will it be more likely to give me wine for free/cheap in the future?

Hard to say for sure. It won't have any direct effect, but if it makes them weaker compared to you, they might more readily cave in to demands. You won't get anything cheaper, though--the AI's price for luxes depends on how many happy faces you get for them; IOW, on how many cities and markets you have.

 

[btfx]

Well, we didn't exactly trade with Germany for land after those wars; we--or rather, our allies--took it. In exchange, Germany was allowed to continue to exist. That's pretty much the way it works in Civ3, at least with cities.

Err... I was talking about the appeasement phase before WWII, when there was that whole mess with Germany/Poland/Czechoslovakia, Germany was being very aggressive and the "League of Nations" was the equivalent of the UN at the time. Unfortunately the League did not set concrete disciplinary rules, so Germany was unpunished. Then to add to the mess, Germany made threats against pretty much everyone around it, and to cool them down, the League basically cut a chunk off of Czechoslovakia and gave it to Germany. That kept them happy.... for a while..... I was hoping the Americans would do the same, give me one of their cities (they didn't know there was saltpeter there yet) to keep me happy, and themselves out of conflict.

I really wish there was a "Agree to these terms or declare WAR!" option, so that the AI would understand the consequences....

Hard to say for sure. It won't have any direct effect, but if it makes them weaker compared to you, they might more readily cave in to demands. You won't get anything cheaper, though--the AI's price for luxes depends on how many happy faces you get for them; IOW, on how many cities and markets you have.

I suppose I'll just take the city.... and get my wine that way....

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

The AI always knows where all resources are located even if they don't have the tech for it.

 

[Tone]

I really wish there was a "Agree to these terms or declare WAR!" option, so that the AI would understand the consequences....

There is. Well at least there almost is. It's more like "Agree to these terms or I'll declare war!"

To do this, go to the negotiation screen with the target civ and click on existing deals (or something like that). There you will see any deals in progress, including your current peace treaty. As long as you've not already negotiated peace with that civ in the last 20 turns (it will have a number in brackets if you have), you can click on the peace treaty. Your advisor will look horrified and double check that you really want to renegotate peace as failure to come to an agreement will mean that you will be at war with that civ. You can then make your demands with an understanding that your 'requests' are supported by your military strength.

I very much doubt if they'll hand over that saltpeter town though. Would you?

 

[btfx]

There is. Well at least there almost is. It's more like "Agree to these terms or I'll declare war!"

To do this, go to the negotiation screen with the target civ and click on existing deals (or something like that). There you will see any deals in progress, including your current peace treaty. As long as you've not already negotiated peace with that civ in the last 20 turns (it will have a number in brackets if you have), you can click on the peace treaty. Your advisor will look horrified and double check that you really want to renegotate peace as failure to come to an agreement will mean that you will be at war with that civ. You can then make your demands with an understanding that your 'requests' are supported by your military strength.

I very much doubt if they'll hand over that saltpeter town though. Would you?

YES! Thanks you very much! This is perfect! And good to know that the AI knows resource locations, I guess if they get really protective over a crappy city I can assume there's something special there. And by the way, I would give up the saltpeter town to a dominant country, better than being destroyed....

 

[Sashie VII]

Q: Sid Always War Archipelago, Byzantines.

I got an SGL for Philosophy. I have 36 shields invested in GL prebuild. I exited the game at this point since I don't know what to do. Do I

i. Choose Map Making and rush the Great Lighthouse, relying on the AIs to not get lit till it's too late?
ii. Abandon my prebuild, rush Great Library (after choosing literature as free tech)?

Oh, and Mongols have started the lighthouse and they're half a world away.

 

[psweetman1590]

Well, can you reach other continents with out the GLighthouse? If you can, it wouldn't be as useful.

On the other hand, if this is always war, you won't be able to trade for techs, so the GLibrary is really really important. But if you can't meet other civs is quite useless, isn't it?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Personally I would rush the GLighthouse, because in my experience the AI are rather likely to just skip over literature. Not saying they will, just that there's a chance, and it sounds like that's the only way you could possibly get both.

 

[btfx]

I would say GLibrary, but that's just a hunch...

By the way, this is what my first question was about:

Is there really no way to deal with this crap? I could always say "withdraw from my territory or declare war, but I don't really mean that last part, A lot of my cities are usually defenseless at this point...

 

[darski]

I agree with psweetman, with AW, the Great Library has more likelihood of working for you.

You don't need to find others too quickly as you usually have your hands full with your own continent.

Now I say this as someone who truly believes that I have a divine right to the great lighthouse just because!

 

[Aabraxan]

btfx, I can't answer the "withdraw or declare" part, but I think that you have the governor on at Kyoto. You might want to consider turning the governor off.

 

[EMan]

Q: Sid Always War Archipelago, Byzantines.

I got an SGL for Philosophy. I have 36 shields invested in GL prebuild. I exited the game at this point since I don't know what to do. Do I

i. Choose Map Making and rush the Great Lighthouse, relying on the AIs to not get lit till it's too late?
ii. Abandon my prebuild, rush Great Library (after choosing literature as free tech)?

Oh, and Mongols have started the lighthouse and they're half a world away.

Interesting situation.
3 questions:

1. Map size?
2. Number of AI's?
3. Victory Condition goal?

My experience on Sid is pretty limited to.........well HOF attempts where AW is off + 1 GOTM (7th place). I think the Great Library is a must at Sid level and you have 3 ways to get it: SGL-it, build it or steal it. I've done the "steal" by sending out my pathetic rag-tag army to the city containing GLib under Peace, secured a beachhead, War ensues, capture the city with the GLib, hold on long enough to get all the free techs, gift the city to a peaceful AI which transported all my units back to my capital city.

Having said that, I'd SGL the GLib now.......would have thought it more valuable than the GLight at Sid level. I assume you can't save the 36 shields and rush the GLib in another city?

 

[btfx]

...I think that you have the governor on at Kyoto. You might want to consider turning the governor off.

Oh man, are they bad/stupid? That may be another mistake of mine....

...gift the city to a peaceful AI which transported all my units back to my capital city...

That teleports them back? I guess I wasted a few turns withdrawing manually. By the way, I recently took an enemy city, but underestimated the opponents counter attack. So I withdrew onto my ships and sold the city to Portugal for wine*20turns. Since Portugal was at peace with the two nations who were going to take the city back next turn, everyone stayed happy. Is this standard procedure if you are losing?

Also, how do you deal with corruption? with CxxC that was the main problem. I had 6/7 corruption in some places! DO you just build the courthouse first?