Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[denyd]

TruePurple: I agree with you about not having any military above Monarch, however at Regent, the AI will be so busy building spearmen & new settlers, you are probably safe until at least 1000 BC. The point of #6 is realize just how many shields & gold are wasted on military that is built well before it's needed. A lot of beginners start every game by building a couple of defenders for their capital. That's 20-40 (SCI tribes) that would have been better spent on scouts, settlers or a granary. At levels below Monarch on a standard sized map you should be safe until at least 1000 BC and maybe all the way through the AA. I picked America so he's be able to build scouts which gives him a unit for exploration and contacts without building military.

If you are playing emperor (or lower on a smaller map) you'll need military earlier for defense & MP duty, but in 9 out of 10 games below emperor you should be safe. I've got a couple of HOF games on the charts below Monarch where the only military I have the entire game were Ancient Cavalry & Crusaders, which meant I needed to research to Mathematics and build the Statue of Zeus before I had any military at all.

 

[TruePurple]

Military also allows you to survive barb encounters (lost many a scout to barbs) take barb camps for the 25 gold. Reduce payments to other nations. And are absolutely required demigod and above. Granted hes not even close to that. But it sets a bad habit, also as a training game, he should learn skills that can be used for any nation, not just expansionists.

Two warriors off the bat will not kill a game, at demigod thats a typical start. But one warrior, one worker, one warrior, one settler... depending on things like forests to chop, available food to shield ratio, national traits etc..is a good start. Unless you go bonkers on military, its hard to waste gold by building military units, since in despotism the unit support per city is huge.

 

[denyd]

That's a reasonable compromise between too many and none. If scouts aren't available I also build at least 2 (3 on emperor+) warriors for scouting and I also try to get out an early pair of curraghs even on a panagaea world.

 

[TruePurple]

Unless seafaring, I typically don't bother with curraghs till latter, if ever (often just wait till map making) They are so slow(especially having to cling to and go around coastline), can't carry passagers, can't take on barbs, or defend towns.... And warriors etc can go onto hills/mountains, often much more likely to make contact with others then curraghs.

I don't quite understand your advice about not researching tech.

 

[Experiment 626]

1. Play at Regent - you'll be even with the AI.

Which level is that? In C3C, it's Chieftain, Warlord, Prince, Monarch, Emperor, Demigod, Deity, and Sid.

Use a continents, standard sized map with roaming barbarians

1. I was definitely thinking of Continents. If I went archie, I'd have to worry about galleys, and can they make it to another landmass or not.
2. A Standard size map sounds good to me, too.
3. Roaming Barbarians? I hate those jerks! But, if it isn't a challenge, then why play at all?

2. Play as America (Industrious & Expansionist) (this will increase your worker speed & allow you scouts)

You know, I've lived in the United States my entire life, but I don't think that I have ever played America in any of the Civ games that I played. I'll give it a try. Another thing to consider is that I won't have to worry about accidentally triggering a Golden Age, because I won't get my UU until quite late in the game.

3. Do not research any techs until 1000 BC - then go for the Replublic slingshot - (this will improve your trading skills)

1. Don't research until 1000 BC? You're joking, right?
2. I don't know what you mean by the Republic slingshot.
3. My trading skills can definitely use improvement.

4, Make your first 2 builds scouts. (Practice exploration, contacts and trading skills)

Will do, but won't my Capital city riot if I don't have at least one Military Police in the city?

5. Do not build any ancient age wonders. (You won't want to 'waste' that many shields at the higher levels)

I very rarely build AA wonders. The Great Wonders that I always try to get are Sun Tzu, Leo's Workshop, ToE, Coper's Obs, Newton's U., and Adam Smith. At Regent, I probably won't have a chance to get all of these.

6. Do not build any military unit until horsemen or swordsmen
(Among the early pitfalls is to overbuild defensive units)

With all of the roaming barbs around, shouldn't I have some offensive units to root out their home camp?

7. Always have at least 1 worker for each city and don't automate them. Connect your cities. In general irrigate brown, mine green and roads = commerce and commerce = gold and gold = research, so the more the better

I used to auto my workers, just to see what they would do. They ain't too bright, are they? I read somewhere on this forum not to improve a tile before there is a citizen to work it (i.e. if the city is 4 pop, then don't have more than 4 tiles mined or irrigated). All tiles should be roaded ASAP, though.

8. Concentrate on expansion, improving your lands and contacting everyone on your island. Also try (curragh/galley) to meet the other islands.

Sounds like a plan. Of course, the other islands would have to be fairly close for the galleys to make it though.

9. Don't build more than 2 barracks, libraries, harbors or markets (no temples, colisseums or city walls).

If my citizens are continuously unhappy, I still shouldn't build a temple for them?

10. Try to claim at least 1 luxury and either iron or horses (both would be best) by 1000 BC. In the XOTM games the pre-1000 BC segment is what is known as the Quick Start Challenge (QCS). Quite often in games below Emperor, those 80 turns, if played well, will put the player at the top of the heap and make the rest of the game a downhill run.

You can seriously be that far ahead to coast to victory by 1000 BC? Brother, do I have a lot to learn!

Thanks for the tips, denyd and TruePurple. If you're so inclined, keep 'em coming.

Oh, one more question: Suppose I have a ton of empty space to expand into. Should I keep expanding until the space is filled, or keep the number of cities under the Optimal City Number (which would be how many exactly)?


Again, much thanks and respect.

 

[EMan]

1. Prince, Level 3 is Regent.
2. I've Never played as America for several reasons.....the important thing is to get comfortable with a civ for some reason. One reason I don't do America is because the UU is something I'll never get to........Golden Age is VERY useful. The point here is that there is no ONE civ better than another EXCEPT in advanced situations. (viz. HOF Fast Finishes quite often require a specific civ......and Maya are good for high-scoring games on Huge Maps.) At lower levels, I'm very fond of the Egyptians for several reasons:
A. UU is War Chariot....Fast Moving, offensive unit.
B. Can go to Golden Age early, if necessary.
C. Workers work quicker than non-industrious civs' Workers.
D. Being Religious, you can change Governments with minimal Anarchy.
E. Being Religious, you can build Temples for half-price......this means that if you're going for a Domination win, you can Pop-rush a city's Temple with a population of 2 (and 10 shields in the Box)....thus expanding your city from 9 tiles to 21.

 

[gmaharriet]

Which level is that? In C3C, it's Chieftain, Warlord, Prince, Monarch, Emperor, Demigod, Deity, and Sid.

Nope, Chief, Warlord, Regent, Monarch and the rest are correct.

Will do, but won't my Capital city riot if I don't have at least one Military Police in the city?

Use the lux slider.

Of course, the other islands would have to be fairly close for the galleys to make it though.

Try suicide galleys. They have a 50% chance of not sinking and, if you make it, you can broker techs between the civs who don't know each other.

If my citizens are continuously unhappy, I still shouldn't build a temple for them?

Again, use the lux slider.

Suppose I have a ton of empty space to expand into. Should I keep expanding until the space is filled, or keep the number of cities under the Optimal City Number (which would be how many exactly)?

The OCN varies with map size and Commercial civs have a higher number. Keep expanding...otherwise you'll have to fight for the land later.

 

[Padma]

Which level is that? In C3C, it's Chieftain, Warlord, Prince, Monarch, Emperor, Demigod, Deity, and Sid.

Regent = Prince

1. I was definitely thinking of Continents. If I went archie, I'd have to worry about galleys, and can they make it to another landmass or not.
2. A Standard size map sounds good to me, too.
3. Roaming Barbarians? I hate those jerks! But, if it isn't a challenge, then why play at all?

You know, I've lived in the United States my entire life, but I don't think that I have ever played America in any of the Civ games that I played. I'll give it a try. Another thing to consider is that I won't have to worry about accidentally triggering a Golden Age, because I won't get my UU until quite late in the game.

Just be sure you don't build the corresponding Wonders, also.

1. Don't research until 1000 BC? You're joking, right?
2. I don't know what you mean by the Republic slingshot.
3. My trading skills can definitely use improvement.

Remember, these "rules" are for training purposes. Not researching until 1000BC will force you to hone your trading skills.

Will do, but won't my Capital city riot if I don't have at least one Military Police in the city?

Not necessarily. On Regent, you should be able to kick out Settlers before you get unhappy. Hook up a Lux or two, and you're home free!

I very rarely build AA wonders. The Great Wonders that I always try to get are Sun Tzu, Leo's Workshop, ToE, Coper's Obs, Newton's U., and Adam Smith. At Regent, I probably won't have a chance to get all of these.

I can often get all those on Regent, if I really want to.

With all of the roaming barbs around, shouldn't I have some offensive units to root out their home camp?

On Roaming, you shouldn't have much trouble with Barbs. You probably won't even *see* any until at least 2500BC.

I used to auto my workers, just to see what they would do. They ain't too bright, are they? I read somewhere on this forum not to improve a tile before there is a citizen to work it (i.e. if the city is 4 pop, then don't have more than 4 tiles mined or irrigated). All tiles should be roaded ASAP, though.

Well, if you have enough Workers, you can get ahewad on the tile improvements. And Roading tiles is only useful if it is otherwise improved, except for connecting cities, of course.

Sounds like a plan. Of course, the other islands would have to be fairly close for the galleys to make it though.

On Continents, there is often (usually) a path that galleys can use to get between them. Not always, admittedly....

If my citizens are continuously unhappy, I still shouldn't build a temple for them?

Learn to use the Lux slider. And hook up or trade for other Luxes.

You can seriously be that far ahead to coast to victory by 1000 BC? Brother, do I have a lot to learn!

Thanks for the tips, denyd and TruePurple. If you're so inclined, keep 'em coming.

Oh, one more question: Suppose I have a ton of empty space to expand into. Should I keep expanding until the space is filled, or keep the number of cities under the Optimal City Number (which would be how many exactly)?

You will only be at *half* the OCN when you are asked to build the FP. After you build that, your OCN goes up, too. You probably won't exceed your OCN too easily, at this stage. Keep pumping out cities! (And I don't recall the OCNs for the different map sizes... :/ )

 

[denyd]

The reason for building a curragh is contact the tribes on the other islands. Also to quickly find out the spape of the continent. A curragh always m0ves at 2 tiles per turn. In some terrains (jungle, hills, woods, marsh & mountains) a scout moves only 1 so a pair of curraghs are more likely to complete the continental outline before a scout can. In the early parts of the game knowing all of the AI on the continent can quite often lead to a significant tech lead. The other reasons for a curragh is to meet the other islands. If you are the only one who knows the other island you'll be able to broker techs back and forth to your advantage. The final reason for the early curraghs is to be able to upgrade them to galleys once map making is available, A well timed harbor build and a little gold will give you a way to quickly acquire any off shore islands before the AI can get there.

The reason for not researching is to practice trading. Let's say you're America. You start with pottery & masonry. To start with you found Washington and research the Wheel (a cheap tech) at minimum, probably 50 turns. Pottery isn't very valuable, but masonry is. Let's say your scout pops a hut and gets ceremonial burial. Then he meets England. Well you could trade with England right away, but you notice that she has Bronze Working already, so you can guess that either she got it from a hut or met a SCI tribe. I'll bet on the SCI tribe and keep scouting. Soon my scout meets Germany (he's SCI & MIL). Now I'll trade Masonry & Pottery to Germany for Warrior Code & Bronze Working. Then I'll trade Masonry to England for Alphabet. Now you have all the first level techs except the Wheel and you spent very little on research. A little while later your scout pops another hut for Mysticism. Now you can trade with England for her newly discovered Iron Working. A little while later you meet the Ottomans and he has Writing. You can trade Iron Working + Mysticism to him for Writing. By keeping those scouts moving contacting the other tribes and popping huts you'll quickly get the tech lead. A little while later your curragh meets Babylon on the other island. He's got Polytheism, but needs lots of techs. Again you could make the trade right away, but by waiting until his neighbors are met you might be able to gain some additional techs and all of their gold for a couple of techs the are well known on your island.

A note about curraghs, they will be safe until one of the AI gets Map Making. Then the barbarian galleys will show up.

As for expansion. Fill in all of the available land. Once you get the Forbidden Palace message, pick a powerful production city and start building it. That will allow you a whole bunch of new cities with our corruption.

One final tip (this is getting long). Once you reach writing, turn research back to full throttle and start researching Code of Laws. Once that is complete research Philosophy. With that complete select Republic. If you are the first to get Philosophy (and you probably are), you'll get Republic (the most expensive AA tech) as a bonus. Revolt to Republic right away. Three things about this. First by revolting when you're small your anarchy period is usually shorter. Second you'll now have an edge on all the AI as you won't have the despotism penalty anymore. Finally you'll have the most valuable AA trading commodity to leverage into three or four AA techs. Usually Currency, Construction, Monarchy & Literature. Republic is so valued it can even be used to get a Middle Age tech.

That's all for now. It's a lot to digest, but keep playing and asking questions, pretty soon Monarch will be easy and you'll be trying out Emperor games.

 

[Experiment 626]

Nope, Chief, Warlord, Regent, Monarch and the rest are correct.

That's what I get for copying the levels list out of the C3C manual. (Page 30) I should have known not to trust the manual when I noticed on that very list, they spelled 'Deity': 'Diety'. Thanks, gmaharriet.

Just be sure you don't build the corresponding Wonders, also.

If I play as America, which Wonders do I need to avoid?

 

[Experiment 626]

Sorry for the double post.

Other questions spring to mind:

The first is repeated from an earlier post.

1. Should I write EVERYTHING that happens in my game journal (i.e. AI movements, etc.)?
2. I was thinking of randomizing the AIs. How many AIs would be a decent challenge?
3. Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear. Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair. So Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he?
4. Would enabling only the 'Spaceship' Victory condition make sense or should I just enable them all and let the chips fall where they may?
5. How do you post a thumbnail of a screenshot that opens to fullsize in a new Window when clicked on?
6. Which city placement strategy should I use? CxxxxC, CxxxC, or CxxC?

Sorry about #3. I couldn't resist.

 

[Mathias]

If I play as America, which Wonders do I need to avoid?

If you don't build any ancient wonders, you won't be able to trigger your GA until the late industrial age. At that time, it will probably be very good to have. Cop's (exp) and Hoover (ind) will trigger your GA.

Of course, if you capture any wonders that the AI have built, then any wonder you build would trigger GA if you control wonders that match each of your traits.

Expansionist:
Colossus
Great Lighthouse
Copernicus'
Magellan's
SETI

Industrious
Pyramids
Hanging Gardens
Great Wall
Hoover Dam

 

[denyd]

1. Should I write EVERYTHING that happens in my game journal (i.e. AI movements, etc.)? What's most important isn't what you did, it's why you did it. Example: Scout N-N isn't very helpful where Scout N to Mountain says you climbed the mountain to get the best view possible of the local area. In most cases just stating what/why you decide to build, where/why you settled, etc

2. I was thinking of randomizing the AIs. How many AIs would be a decent challenge? For a standard game 4 or 5 should be fine. You might want to pick some of the more docile opponents for your first go at this (India & Korea instead of Aztecs & Zulu)

3. Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear. Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair. So Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he? Unless he lived in Maryland then he'd be a rug.

4. Would enabling only the 'Spaceship' Victory condition make sense or should I just enable them all and let the chips fall where they may? The only method that might win before you can launch is probably Diplomatic and you should be able to get that built before the AI on Regent.

5. How do you post a thumbnail of a screenshot that opens to fullsize in a new Window when clicked on? Not sure about this one, I normally attach a jpg file.

6. Which city placement strategy should I use? CxxxxC, CxxxC, or CxxC? For PTW & Vanilla distance from the capital was very important (look for posts on Ring City Placement [RCP]). In C3C however it's probably more important to pick a site with fresh water access, on a plains with grassland & hills available. In the early part of the game growth is the key to sucess so look for a location that promotes growth. Cows, wheat, flood plains & grassland are the best choices.

A couple more things to note. Early in the game don't waste worker turns. There's no reason to irrigate grassland. Anytime you move from 2 food or shields to 3 the despotism penalty takes it the gain away. Also roading 5 tiles for a size 3 city is overkill. What you might want to do is generate 2 or 3 starts that you like and post jpgs of them. Use a paint type product to mark where you'd found your capital and where you'd move your scout and worker to and you'll get opinions on why your ideas are good or bad.

One final comment, you might want to take a look at the last couple COTM pre-game threads. From just the opening screen shot you'll read about lots of reasons for making different moves.

 

[TruePurple]

Well finding other islands/continents is a reason to build curraghs, but considering the distance usually involved in finding one, you end up going through allot of curraghs. Scouting the edges of a continent usually isn't worth it unless your seafaring, your warriors would find other nations faster. (and have all the other stuff as well) So something that I build a little latter after I get established. I play Continent maps.

50% chance of surviving? I think not, curraghs in open ocean seem to have like a 80% chance of sinking (or worse) every turn I wonder if they are more likely to sink in the ocean then the sea.

Oh, a tip on nonautomated workers, for the most part, road any tile your worker is on before you move it off. It takes 1 turn to move a worker onto a tile and another to move it off but only 2-3 turns to road.

 

[Ansar]

Are there any threads for "warmongering guide for builders"? I need to read one.

 

[Smart]

Celtic Sword Rush

I've tried it on demigod continents, and it work very well . One wrong thing in the article is technology path - don't research BW >> IW, because those techs haven't trading value. Research directly to Monarchy and trade for IW ASAP.

 

[TruePurple]

Fortresses grant zone of control, do barricades as well?

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

The barricade is simply an upgrade to the fortress and can't exist without the fortress.

 

[TruePurple]

I know they are a "upgrade" that doesn't mean they don't replace the fortress on the map. I've had a bunch of enemy troops go right by my barricaded soldiers and no one took a hit.

 

[Mathias]

According to the civilopedia:
"The zone of control exerted by the fortress still applies to a barricades."