Rallying call for all interested: Colonisation of the Moon mod!

[Belizan]

When did we nerf Glasshouses? If we leave them at only 1 food with an additional +1 at Water Reclamation I think we need to add another +1 for another tech. Only getting 2 food on a food tile isn't good enough.

It's the *MOON* Woodelf. Why would expect to get so much food? Put a tech in each era after era 1 that ups the glasshouse by +1.

The buildings arn't extra, they are just restricted to various traits. That's what Matt & my discussion about not displaying the "duplicates" was about. You do understand our tag naming convention, right?

The deal with JBG, files and Python is that I was going to add in/correct all the civics, which is largely and XML issue with some Python support. I had intended to do it while I had the mod locked, but Matt wanted to get it back in a hurry so he would be ready to merge with JBG. I thought he was planning on doing that (JBG) on saturday? What happened to JBG, anyway? I hope nothing serious :/.

 

[Belizan]

Hey I like the grid and the new splash screen! 8). We should move artillery pieces to a sensible technology, and add some more advanced kinds of artillery pieces.

 

[Belizan]

I don't know if I spaced it or someone changed it, but all the Promotion_TE types need to be set to <TechPrereq>TECH_NEVER</TechPrereq>. These promotions are not meant to be gained through experience.

 

[Belizan]

Ok, on the COMMERCIAL, MILITARY, and SCIENTIFIC buildings, unless we're feeling like changing it, the special versions should generate happiness. If you just want to make a building cheaper, we can do that through the regular trait options.

 

[woodelf]

It's the *MOON* Woodelf. Why would expect to get so much food? Put a tech in each era after era 1 that ups the glasshouse by +1.

So you have a city tile that produces 2 or 3 food. You make a glasshouse that gets 1 food. If you find zero resources you're left with stagnation or starvation in a pop 2 city. I know it's the moon, but if you can't have a greenhouse produce food, why build one? By having them produce 1 until Water Reclamation there's no sense building them at all, that's my point.

 

[woodelf]

I don't know if I spaced it or someone changed it, but all the Promotion_TE types need to be set to <TechPrereq>TECH_NEVER</TechPrereq>. These promotions are not meant to be gained through experience.

I don't who might have changed it since I'll have to look and see what they even are. I noticed new promotions, but they were all available right away and some seemed duplicate.

 

[woodelf]

The buildings arn't extra, they are just restricted to various traits. That's what Matt & my discussion about not displaying the "duplicates" was about. You do understand our tag naming convention, right?

So entire buildings are restricted to traits? Why do they need to show up twice? You can give bonus production of certain buildings based on Traits in XML.

I haven't looked at the tag naming so NO I don't understand it yet.

edit - So now we have Military, Scientific, Commerical, and Happiness versions of all buildings? I imagine this has to do with something Uber-python that JBG wanted, but right now I don't understand it and I'll wait until the end product to comment. I think this is to make each Leader more unique.

 

[Belizan]

I really like the mushroom farm. We should think about adding a few other buildings of this ilk for food based on techs and production. I also think it is critical that we get our specialists up and in the game. Any reason we pulled them out?

 

[Belizan]

I don't who might have changed it since I'll have to look and see what they even are. I noticed new promotions, but they were all available right away and some seemed duplicate.

All the TE promotions are tech edge promotions for the little demo Robby and I whipped up. They are not meant to be in the promotion tree.

So you have a city tile that produces 2 or 3 food. You make a glasshouse that gets 1 food. If you find zero resources you're left with stagnation or starvation in a pop 2 city. I know it's the moon, but if you can't have a greenhouse produce food, why build one? By having them produce 1 until Water Reclamation there's no sense building them at all, that's my point.

He3 produces three food. Initially, they arn't growing food locally anyway. They are getting shipments from Earth. When they get cut off, they are in a tough position. At least that was my view. Then they have to struggle to develop the techniques and technology to harness food.

Although really, these are all questions for JBG. I'm not the designer of this mod 8). Just the code monkey 8). I should stop poisoning people with my "vision" of a Moon mod. Heck, I haven't even read half of our techs yet :/.

So entire buildings are restricted to traits? Why do they need to show up twice? You can give bonus production of certain buildings based on Traits in XML.

I haven't looked at the tag naming so NO I don't understand it yet.

edit - So now we have Military, Scientific, Commerical, and Happiness versions of all buildings? I imagine this has to do with something Uber-python that JBG wanted, but right now I don't understand it and I'll wait until the end product to comment. I think this is to make each Leader more unique.

No, you can't (to my knowledge) set happiness production for certain buildings in a trait description via XML. You also can not make units (other then military ones) cost extra maintenance. So yes, this is "something Uber-Python that JBG wanted". I posted a long description of the system a few days ago :/. As with many of the things I coded to enable JBG's ideas, you can use it to do a lot more then he asked for. Understanding it is the first step to appreciating those possibilities.

Anyhow, it's all Bible stuff. Although the Leadership traits description didn't make it into v1.1 of the Bible. Check the Code Extensions thread for a description. I think it was on page 6 of this thread originally.

 

[woodelf]

Are specialists out? If they are I might have real early just to get the game going.

We should brainstorm more food generating buildings then. I have an icon for the mushroom farm I can add sometime.

 

[Belizan]

Are specialists out? If they are I might have real early just to get the game going.

We should brainstorm more food generating buildings then. I have an icon for the mushroom farm I can add sometime.

Well, I have sort of my own vision of what the start of the game should look like, but this is JBG's child, so, really, we should get some guidance from him. Speaking of which.. where is he? And... when he does show up, I want to talk to him about the Special Civics 8).

 

[woodelf]

Well, I have sort of my own vision of what the start of the game should look like, but this is JBG's child, so, really, we should get some guidance from him. Speaking of which.. where is he? And... when he does show up, I want to talk to him about the Special Civics 8).

I think you should put your own vision down here so we can all look at it even before JBG does. That way we'll all be informed.

 

[GeoModder]

Only glasshouses/agrodomes/algae farms/colony plots should produce food (especially on such a harsh world as the moon)!

Early foodtrade with Earth can then be simulated by providing a free specialist (let's say the "priest" ) +2 food or something on top of the priests current benefits. The player has then more or less the opportunity to dictate the amount of trade with Earth till Isolation. Perhaps issue an extra free "priest" specialist with every helium extractor that particular base works. That sounds to me as a way to let the player choose to whether have pure trade base(s) with Earth and/or other sorts of bases (exploration/industrial)

Later on, you can let another specialist provide +1 food (citizen for example) as to simulate "after hours" efforts to get additional food in homemade greenhouses.

 

[woodelf]

Only glasshouses/agrodomes/algae farms/colony plots should produce food (especially on such a harsh world as the moon)!

You can grow mushrooms in your closet so I don't thinkk the harsh Moon conditions should matter one way or the other on this one.

I'll leave the Specialists to JBG or someone else.

 

[woodelf]

I'm tweaking the Civ4BonusInfos XML to add some civilopedia entries and change the description from all caps to normal lettering. I also changed Palladium to Tungsten which we discussed about 2 weeks ago.

 

[Belizan]

I think you should put your own vision down here so we can all look at it even before JBG does. That way we'll all be informed.

No, you misunderstand me . I mean that I don't want to poison JBG's design with my own biases .

 

[woodelf]

Ouch. I tried to add a Wonder and just CTD'd when I finished researching it. Hmm...

 

[GeoModder]

You can grow mushrooms in your closet so I don't thinkk the harsh Moon conditions should matter one way or the other on this one.

I'll leave the Specialists to JBG or someone else.

I consider base facilities as being part of the colony plot of course.
But indeed, with facilities like Mushroom Farms specialists adding food (after Isolation) is way overpowered.

Still, I think it's a good touch for the pre-isolation era, and let the player really feel that "contact is gone". Better anyway then the gradual decrease of food output that He³ plots now give.

Some test errors/observations:
- Facilities show 2 times in tech splashes (and the F6 screen as well), mosttimes with different hammer requirements to build them. They don't show twice in the cityscreen tho.
- Whole bunch of promo's show, but when used to promote a unit they only are active for the turn they're put on that unit. Guess that's for the cleanup.
- Long Range Artillery: the concept is a bit shaky implemented. The "plane" of it doesn't follow the "canon". Having your long range art "scout" is even more . It's quite strong as well. 2 shots and the early enemy units are practically gone.
- The barb Pistolman shows a pink button when its "threat" is announced.
- He³ Exchange building doesn't obselete. It keeps on giving gold after Isolation.
- Is there supposed to be a "change" in how the cities look when the second era starts? (post-Isolation). One civ showed renaissance graphics, the rest still looked classic.

 

[woodelf]

Some test errors/observations:
- Facilities show 2 times in tech splashes (and the F6 screen as well), mosttimes with different hammer requirements to build them. They don't show twice in the cityscreen tho.
- Whole bunch of promo's show, but when used to promote a unit they only are active for the turn they're put on that unit. Guess that's for the cleanup.
- Long Range Artillery: the concept is a bit shaky implemented. The "plane" of it doesn't follow the "canon". Having your long range art "scout" is even more . It's quite strong as well. 2 shots and the early enemy units are practically gone.
- The barb Pistolman shows a pink button when its "threat" is announced.
- He³ Exchange building doesn't obselete. It keeps on giving gold after Isolation.
- Is there supposed to be a "change" in how the cities look when the second era starts? (post-Isolation). One civ showed renaissance graphics, the rest still looked classic.

The double showing facilities are part of something Belizan and matthewv are doing. I don't understand it yet either.
The new promos are also something new that I don't know anything about.
The artillery works live Civ3, but has some kinks.
Now idea why the pistolman has pink button now, but I noticed the same thing.
I haven't gotten to Isolation since we got this version, so that's good to know.
I have no idea if we're changing city graphics. Seems minor.

Lots to clean up by the looks. Thanks for the input.

 

[Belizan]

Well, this isn't even a release, just an internal pass around. Someone changed the TE promotions, they are not supposed to be accessible as regular promotions.

The artillery has not been changed from the values I gave it in the demo. The barrages range and damage will probably want to be tweaked, as well as the number of capacity promotions available and new, higher tech artillery introduced.

The duplicate facilities are part of the implementation of the Leadership traits for the three faction types--Scientific, Economic and Independent. Although the tech lists duplicate buildings, you'll find in the city screen you can only build one. Which one depends on which traits you have and goes to implementing the various building and unit exclusion and characteristics available to each.

I think it is far more realistic that food be growable in the colony base itself then on the surface of the moon, so your mileage may vary 8). Either way, JBG will probably want to address that when he resurfaces again.