Randland 1.0 -Wheel of Time Map (75x50)

[Sammael]

I downloaded your scenario and messed around with it a bit, although I haven't played a game yet. First off, I do like it. I'd been thinking of doing something like that but didn't have access to good enough maps.

I do have a few suggestions. First off, why is Mansa Musa (Far Madding) at war with everyone? Also, there are a couple of cities that were undefended when I looked in worldbuilder, either because they started that way or because the ai moved it's defenders. One was in Andor, I forget which city. I also don't think every city should be Hindu. Maybe you can use different religions to create the anatgonisms between various countries (Tear & Illian, Tarabon & Arad Doman, etc.)

For the most part though, great job! I'm going to have a lot of fun playing it.

THanks. It's so good to get some feedback.

War with Far Madding is a throwback to when it was a minor civ (ie. effectively barbarian); I've changed this in the latest version on my computer. I don't know know what the deal is with units, but I'll have a look. Good point about religion - I had intended to do more with that but didn't really get there. I'm pretty sure I can edit diplomatic positions at the start just in the worldbuilder.

I don't suppose you know your way around the xml files, do you?

 

[bobtheflob]

No, sorry, I'm not much of a modder. All I can offer is play testing.

 

[Mackster]

could you change the religon system (as religon is not a part of the wheel of time world) to represent something else, maybe to represent diplmacy and influence, with Aes sedai, Dark Friend, Seanchan, and neutral 'religons'?

 

[bobtheflob]

This was made using world builder it looks like. Changing religions like that requires a mod, which I'm sure will come at some time. For now it's restricted to the rules and units that are already in the game.

 

[Mackster]

i do have some grasp of xml (thanks to the tutorials on this website), its just python which i can't do. If any help is needed, just ask.

Its probably a good idea though if we can work through some decent ideas for a mod/scenario, like what role aes sedai are going to play, and what to do about the seanchan, aiel and darkfriends. The barbarians could be renamed as something like Dragonspawn or bandits.

 

[Sammael]

This was made using world builder it looks like. Changing religions like that requires a mod, which I'm sure will come at some time. For now it's restricted to the rules and units that are already in the game.

I've used the WorldBuilder for some of this, but found Notepad much more useful for editing civ infos and placing cities.

I had a go at building a MOD around this, so I could change the religions, and the cost of settlers and techs (at the moment, expansion is too easy, as is scientific advancement), but while Civ loaded the mod, it didn't seem to register the changes I had made. Obviously either I needed to change more in the xml files, or I somehow didn't make the WorldBuilder file use the modded xmls.


mackster: I would love some help with the xml, first of all for the issues I've mentioned above, but also for changing unit specs and wonders, etc.

As to the specifics of the scenario, I'm quite keen to first of all build this up into a decent pre-Dragon scenario, maybe with Shadowspawn, False Dragons, Seanchan, and Aiel as barbarians, then go on to a Rand-coming-out-of-the-Waste scenario.

 

[Mackster]

I'd like to help, however i can.
I was thinking through possible wonders for the Wheel of Time and came up with the following:

Tower of Ghenjei
Whitebridge
White Tower
Black Tower
The Stone of Tear
Rhuidean
Foregate (in Cairhien)
The Guardian (in Far Madding)
Museum of Tanchico
Illuminator Chapter House
Terhana Library (in Arad Doman)
Royal Library of Cairhien
Fortress of Light
The Farm (in Ebou Dar)
Choedan Kal (two giant sa'angreal, one male, one female)
Mayene, Illian and Tear could have some sort of wonder to represent trade with Shara
Great Square of Tammuz (in Illian)(where the Hunt for the Horn is called)
Shining Walls of Tar Valon

I had a go at creating the Stone of Tear, which i did in XML, the problem is that i am useless at art so i can't do any of the buttons, etc.

 

[Sammael]

I'd like to help, however i can.
I had a go at creating the Stone of Tear, which i did in XML, the problem is that i am useless at art so i can't do any of the buttons, etc.

Awesome! Don't worry about art for the moment - just let the Stone of Tear have the images for the Chitchen Itza or whatever. At the moment I've just thrown in a lot of wonders to try stand for the White Tower and so forth (as a result, Tar Valon is, I think, producing far too many Great People...)
'Trade with Seafolk' could be a national wonder available with X number of harbors.

I'm thinking that next I'll try and revamp Almoth Plain. I'm not too happy with it at the moment as a minor (barbarian) civ. Might just give Katar to Arad Doman (it's technically independant, I think, but it's easier to join them), clear the other cities off the plain, and give Tarabon and the Domani each a settler or two. Falme I would make a normal civ, but unplayable like Far Madding. Then I could just leave a stack of barbs (Logain, maybe) on Almoth Plain and let Arad Doman and Tarabon expand in there in their own time. Any thoughts?

Also, techs need to take longer to research (maybe 2 or three times as long), and settlers need to cost at least three times as much. (Trying not to have undue expansion or advancement). Any chance you could work these out with the xml files? Or at least tell me which all files need to be changed (I changed the main units and tech files, but the changes didnt take).

Also, I'm trying to work out a list of UUs needed:

Aiel (2/3 movement, and powerful as well)
Trolloc (1/2 movement. maybe have 'Fade' as a promotion.)
Shienaran Swordsman (Samurai, but maybe replaces swordsman instead of mace)
Defender of the Stone (Swordsman (?) +25/50% city defense - maybe use praetorian)
Queen's Guard (improved Pikeman for Andor)
Aes Sedai (perhaps we could work them like Great People, but able to fight - maybe have a strength of 2, but get huge (ie. +400%) vs Shadowspawn)

 

[Sammael]

Also, Mackster - what do you think about just splitting the religion between those who are pro Aes Sedai and those who are against (ie. the Children of the Light). So the religious centers would be Tar Valon and Amadicia, and you could have this Whitecloak/Aes Sedai struggle for influence over other nations (most of whom would start with both "religions" in their lands).

 

[bobtheflob]

My thought on Aes Sedai was to make them like spies. Since they're not allowed to really attack anyone and they seem to do a lot of operating behind the scenes, it just seems like the best fit. Also, Saldea should probably have some sort of mounted UU (Bashere's Cavalry). Another option for Andor would be Two Rivers longbowmen.

 

[Sammael]

My thought on Aes Sedai was to make them like spies. Since they're not allowed to really attack anyone and they seem to do a lot of operating behind the scenes, it just seems like the best fit. Also, Saldea should probably have some sort of mounted UU (Bashere's Cavalry). Another option for Andor would be Two Rivers longbowmen.

I like the subtlety idea with Aes Sedai, but I'm for having them able to move around freely in opponents territory like Caravels, not necessarily being invisible like spies. The invisibility might give them too much power.

Bashere's Cavalry sounds good - what sort of bonus did you have in mind?

Hopefully there's a way to make Longbowmen from the Two Rivers just get created with a free promotion or something.

 

[Mackster]

With the Almoth plain, i think it would be better to keep them as a minor civ, to represent their lack of organised government, but make them militarily weak, so either Tarabon or Arad Doman could conquer them. Then have very poor diplomactic relations between the two, so the close borders will likely or not cause war (representing how both nations have fought over the almoth plain). Also, Logain was in Ghealdon, but you could make the barbarian stack as the Legion of Whitecloaks sent there to sow trouble.

For tech cost, i think you just need to edit the '<iCost>50</iCost>' line in CIV4TechInfos, but i'll check. It is time consuming though, so you might want to try one of the editors, like Vilu's Civ 4 Tech Cost Editor.

If you have aes sedai and children of light as religons, you should also have neutral, to represent those who do not wish to follow either.

With Aes sedai, i thought make them defensive only (if you can), give them some spy abilities, and the ability to spread 'aes sedai' as a religon. Also, i could try to make them produced by the white tower every few turns (if i can). Bonus's vs shadowspawn will only really matter if shadowspawn are in the scenario.

with unique units, illian could have the companion for illian and warders for tar valon. Saldea are famed for their light cavalry, as bobtheflob points out.

 

[Sammael]

Logain was in Ghealdan? Bugger. But yeah, Children would work out the same. The reason I'm swayed toward leaving the plain blank is that there aren't really meant to be towns of any size there. And it's kind of awkward having the Almoth Plain civ. But if everyone is for doing it that way, then it's ok with me.

That is what I changed in the tech. Maybe the problem was that the WorldBuilder file wasn't using the mod properly? (although it did come up with the mod's name in the screen corner when I loaded Civ) I'll try and get the tech cost editor you're talking about.

I'm not sure a neutral religion would be necessary. After all, adopting the Aes Sedai religion doesn't denote Aes Sedai rule - it's basically just agreeing that Aes Sedai are the good guys, not a bunch of evil darkfriends. Then again, I guess if we could make it so the neutral religion civs don't generate large "heathen religion" deiplomacy penalties with the other two, it could be good. THoughts?

Defensive only - of course! Why didn't I think of that. the ability must exist, because Scouts have it. I intend at some point to get Trollocs and so forth into here, but we can wait on giving Aes Sedai bonuses against them until they exist anyway. I like Aes Sedai being produced every X turns by the White Tower, rather than being built like other units (hope you can get it to work ).

Saldaen light cavalry - I assume either a stronger horse archer or a Knight that's faster or doesn't require Iron or something. Warders I think should be assumed to be part of the Aes Sedai unit: units like Swordsman presumably represent, say, a hundred or so Swordsmen, would the Warder unit represent a small army of warders? What would Companions do, do you think?

It's awesome to have discussion going on this stuff!

 

[Mackster]

The neutral 'religon' could count for nations such as Tear, who don't like aes sedai, or whitecloaks. I'm not sure how to make a wonder produce units, it might involve python....i'll check up on it though. If you take the idea a swordsman unit is 100 men, would the aes sedai unit be around 10-20? it might be better to not worry about numbers for the moment though...I thought it would be cool to have warder units though as a unique unit for tar valon. Also, is it only going to be Tar Valon who can produce Aes Sedai, or should other nations be able to? The companions of Illian are pretty much illian's equivalent of the defenders of the stone.

I've pretty much finished the xml for the wonders i've done, all they need are art work, and decisions on what the wonder abilities are going to be.
So far there is: Tower of Ghenjei, Whitebridge, White Tower, Black Tower (not in the timeframe for this map, but i thought i would make it anyways), The Stone of Tear, Rhuidean (not on the map, but same case as the black tower), Foregate, The Guardian, Royal Museum of Tanchico, Illuminator Chapter House (National wonder), Terhana Library, Royal Library of Cairhien, Fortress of Light, The Farm, male and female Choedan Kal (two wonders), Trade with Shara (national wonder), Great Square of Tammuz, Shining Walls of Tar Valon, Trade with Atha'an Miere (national wonder).

I'm not sure what bonuses to give each wonder, although i figured i'd give wonders like the stone defensive bonuses. What would the Tower of Ghenjei grant?

 

[Sammael]

Aes Sedai seem to be headed to a more non-military role, so they seem to be more like Great People or spies. But in battle someone capable of wielding the one power could be as or more useful than a hundred soldiers. Also - do warders typically operate seperate from their Aes Sedai?

I would suggest having Aes Sedai as a UU for Tar Valon. Maybe offset the advantage by not letting Tar Valon declare war (if there is a way to do that). Other nations could concievably get Wilders, I suppose.

Good list of wonders. The Black Tower could be included as a wonder you can build later in the game (generates Ashaman, but has some negative diplomatic consequences perhaps). Various libraries could give academy-like science bonuses. The Foregate could reduce unhappiness possibly. Not sure about others. I guess largely we can look to the wonders in the normal game...

 

[racerx007]

there is no set, organized religion in Randland, or in any other part of the WOT world. there is just the belief in the Creator, aka "The Light" and the Dark One, aka "The Shadow"...All believe that the two exist, most follow the Light, except those who want the DO to break free and re-make the Wheel. As for the religions to be pro-Aes Sedai, and Pro-Children, that is more of a political alliance in Randland. Tear fears all things Aes Sedai and anything to do with the One Power. Far Madding just doesn't want any channeling in their city. Amadicia feel that channeling is restricted to the use of the Creator only, and that Aes Sedai are blasphemers. As for the other nations in Randland, they are mostly indifferent to the Aes Sedai and Children. Shara we know has a monarchy that incorporates Channelers, so they very much use them, except for male channelers who they use as breeding stock and are killed at the age of 21 or when they first start to channel. Seanchan as we all know chains female channelers with the a'dam, and male channelers are killed when found. Atha an'Miere train their female channelers to control the weather for sailing, and men are killed or voluntarily sail off into the unknown. the Aiel turn their female channelers into Wise Ones, and the men go off to fight the Shadow on their own. a nations stance towards channelers is, and always has been political, and stems from the Breaking.

so i think that your ideas for religion should be rethought. definately into something like "The Light" vs. "The Shadow" or for a better scenario, just create a dualistic religion like Manicheism, or Zoroastrainism because they are much closer to what religion is like in Randland

 

[Sureshot]

For religions I'd base it around views on the One Power, like, (brackets for likely civs with such religion) [square brackets for wonder or tech to Found)
Aes Sedai (Tar Valon, Borderlands, Andor) [wonder : White Tower]
Organized 'Wilders' (Aiel Wise Ones, Sea Folk Windfinders, Ebou Dar Kin) [tech : Channeling]
Chained (Seachan) [tech or wonder : A'dams]
Darkfriends/True Source (Blight) [tech or wonder : Hole in the Dark Ones Prison]
Anti-One Power (Far Madding, Amadicia, Tear) [multiple wonders : Stone of Tear, Citadel of Light, etc. in general any large fortress, and have it have a bonus against Spies (if Aes Sedai are to be spies) or just make it necessary for a Theocracy or similar civic which prevents religious spread of alien religions]
Dragonsworn [after discovery of the Dragon Reborn]
Ashaman [wonder : Black Tower]

 

[tombeef]

I think unique characters should be made representing the main characters, and these could be added to a future Wheel of Time mod. For instance:

Perrin: Strength, 10
Promotion: Scent, and obsession
Scent allows him to see where previous units have moved, obsession is a promotion that comes into place whenever you try to move Perrin. If you do, there is a 50% he will become obsessed with Faile and not do anything. He will sit and "plan" and complain about other women.

Also, civlopedia entries should frequently refer to; what dress each woman is wearing, and its colors and design, the strength of ones cup of tea, and the ritual of "boxing ones ears." These entries should all be at least a page long and should be chockful of unimportant, unecessary detail.

A Wheel of Time mod should also reflect the flow of the books. Books 1-3 were very fast paced and excellent, so the mod should be to. However, from that point on the series slowed down. To reflect that, you should make late military troops take like 200,000 to train, or about the number of useless pages in the last three books.

And lastly, Rand should be an all powerful character... who does nothing with his power, except surround himself with other soldiers.

In all seriousness, this map is great, the land in the Wheel of Time series has always been one of my favorites. And, as great as the first few books were (they were really good), the last 4 or 5 have really, well, sucked.

 

[Mackster]

I detect a lot of anger at the wheel of time books tombeef, and i do agree that they have gotten quite slow, but it didn't mean i did not enjoy them (much better than if Robert Jordan had rushed everything).

The idea of using religon to represent one power is good, but i don't know how well it would work with nations, as it is only a few who take any great stance on it. Unique characters will be something to add in a future scenario, especiallly if one is made when rand crosses with the Aiel.

The wonders i have been working on are all pretty much done, i don't know how balanced they are, etc. I don't know how to make a wonder produce units though (does anyone know?) so some will just have to have benefits for certain units (eg. white tower provides bonus for aes sedai)

What else needs to be added to the scenario? there are many good mods already floating about, like the Training Camp (easily adoptable to the scenario), are there any suggestions? (the wonders already include graphics posted by C. Roland in the graphics section)

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Hi folks,

I was so glad to see a WOT-MOD on the run that I started to dig into xml two days ago and mod around a bit. This file contains a few custom Leaderheads I made from what I found on the web and in this forum. I totally failed to make any flags show up in the game though. So if someone could have a look at the andorflag in the mod and tell me what I made wrong, I'd be very happy cause
I don't get a clue. I have plenty of buttonarts for units and civs here but until then I can't use this stuff. The map included is basically Randland with a few modifications. I added it for a quick view at the changes I made. Just install as usual and doubleclick on the wbs. It will start the map and the mod.
Hope too see a thread started on the mod section soon.

Have fun

p.s.: Hope nobody is offended for taking some files from this forum and not be mentioned. I modded all night long and am just too tired now for searching after the names.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/WOT-Pre-Alpha.zip