Random AI thoughts from FireTuner Autoplays

[Arcaian]

I think you are severely underestimating the complexity of coding AI, if you're saying the AI team just doesn't care and asking if you can just "turn off" forward settling. There isn't a function that says if(care == False){ forwardSettle = True }.

 

[notque]

I've released the first version of the mod.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-intelligent-ai-behavior-improvements.695214/

 

[Cruor]

I think you are severely underestimating the complexity of coding AI, if you're saying the AI team just doesn't care and asking if you can just "turn off" forward settling. There isn't a function that says if(care == False){ forwardSettle = True }.

I understand it's hard and it's something I can't do. That said, someone clearly took the time to code forward settling, which is a dumb, annoying worthless tactic (maybe it can work for a human but not the AI) but they can't code the AI to leave a ranged unit to defend cities? Stay with the commander? Stay with a settler? avoid water when in combat? Come on. So if it has been programmed to forward settle, I assume it can be turned off, even if I do not understand how. There is some code that is telling the AI to do it, it is not random. As I have said, plenty of games have good AI. A big part of the problem is 1 unit per tile. Worst thing ever done to civ and they are too stubborn to admit it and change it. Sadly, there is no fixing that. Anyway, it is extremely clear some people who made the game love their job (unit art guy, music team) and some people are 9-5ing for a paycheck (most of the rest of the team) while others are activists, not gamers. If you can't see that, not sure what to say.

Again, as I said, notque is making changes NOT to challenge the super hardcore crowd, but just to make the AI somewhat decent. AI is far beyond me, but I have modded a lot of other games and have published mods, for Fallout 4, for example. It was EXTREMELY clear going into the files the team didn't give a crap, I can write you a pages long report on why but one example is the effect for an EMP grenade was in the game, but they didn't GIVE the emp effect to the EMP grenade. I was able to fix it with no prior knowledge. In Fallout NV, a lot of the robots had zero armor. 2 minute fix for me. That isn't a time crunch issue. Thats a no caring issue, no official patch ever fixed that.

Anyway, I don't want to take this thread off topic. Thanks to Notque for his efforts. I will post AI issues I see.

 

[notque]

I understand it's hard and it's something I can't do. That said, someone clearly took the time to code forward settling, which is a dumb, annoying worthless tactic (maybe it can work for a human but not the AI) but they can't code the AI to leave a ranged unit to defend cities? Stay with the commander? Stay with a settler? avoid water when in combat? Come on. So if it has been programmed to forward settle, I assume it can be turned off, even if I do not understand how. There is some code that is telling the AI to do it, it is not random. As I have said, plenty of games have good AI. A big part of the problem is 1 unit per tile. Worst thing ever done to civ and they are too stubborn to admit it and change it. Sadly, there is no fixing that. Anyway, it is extremely clear some people who made the game love their job (unit art guy, music team) and some people are 9-5ing for a paycheck (most of the rest of the team) while others are activists, not gamers. If you can't see that, not sure what to say.

Again, as I said, notque is making changes NOT to challenge the super hardcore crowd, but just to make the AI somewhat decent. AI is far beyond me, but I have modded a lot of other games and have published mods, for Fallout 4, for example. It was EXTREMELY clear going into the files the team didn't give a crap, I can write you a pages long report on why but one example is the effect for an EMP grenade was in the game, but they didn't GIVE the emp effect to the EMP grenade. I was able to fix it with no prior knowledge. In Fallout NV, a lot of the robots had zero armor. 2 minute fix for me. That isn't a time crunch issue. Thats a no caring issue, no official patch ever fixed that.

Anyway, I don't want to take this thread off topic. Thanks to Notque for his efforts. I will post AI issues I see.

Try my released AI mod. Let me know what you don't like. I mod for autoplays, not for human players. I mod to make the AI good at playing the game. I have not played a game with my mod, I have only watched autoplays. It's way better, dramatically better.

You will have to tell me what you see you don't like. But it needs to be using my mod, if you wish. Otherwise the base game issues are not my concern now.

 

[infiniterocks]

One thing I've noticed in combat is that Major Powers AI doesn't pillage to survive and stay in fights longer. Sometimes AI will even send units inside your territory and they'll sit doing nothing, letting you attack them and then they will flee when it's too late. If there's a way to get AI be pillaging at like 50% or lower health or just pillaging for needed resources: culture, science or gold. It would make them more of a threat. I feel like the city states/barbs fight better.

 

[notque]

One thing I've noticed in combat is that Major Powers AI doesn't pillage to survive and stay in fights longer. Sometimes AI will even send units inside your territory and they'll sit doing nothing, letting you attack them and then they will flee when it's too late. If there's a way to get AI be pillaging at like 50% or lower health or just pillaging for needed resources: culture, science or gold. It would make them more of a threat. I feel like the city states/barbs fight better.

Cool, I'll look into that.

 

[Arcaian]

That said, someone clearly took the time to code forward settling, which is a dumb, annoying worthless tactic (maybe it can work for a human but not the AI) but they can't code the AI to leave a ranged unit to defend cities?

I'll respect your wishes to drop the topic after this - all I'll say here is that I highly doubt there was ever intentional coding of forward settling. It's far more likely that it's an emergent behaviour from the code that defines the weighting of settlement locations. They didn't take the time to code forward settling, they took the time to code AI prioritization of different factors, and accidentally forward settling has emerged from that.

 

[notque]

I'll respect your wishes to drop the topic after this - all I'll say here is that I highly doubt there was ever intentional coding of forward settling. It's far more likely that it's an emergent behaviour from the code that defines the weighting of settlement locations. They didn't take the time to code forward settling, they took the time to code AI prioritization of different factors, and accidentally forward settling has emerged from that.

I mean, it's a bug from what I've seen. There still is intentional forward settling, but the base experience is a bug if I'm correct.

Of course, it's fixed in my version.

 

[Xaviarlol]

Testing your mod, and very preliminary but...so far no stupid forward settling and I haven't seen any idle settlers. So far so good! Game feels 10x better. But will need to play a lot more to get a better signal.

 

[notque]

Testing your mod, and very preliminary but...so far no stupid forward settling and I haven't seen any idle settlers. So far so good! Game feels 10x better. But will need to play a lot more to get a better signal.

And I've already released a new version that's even better.

 

[Acken]

As I was looking into making a mod to give back the AI some free settlers/warriors at high difficulty this comes at the right time.

 

[notque]

As I was looking into making a mod to give back the AI some free settlers/warriors at high difficulty this comes at the right time.

That is very much unnecessary.. I think we're going to have to turn down the bonuses deity ai get.

I've already got another unreleased change that is killer in autoplays. And I have more work to do.

 

[Acken]

Do you know why the AI cannot start the settling operation before turn 10 ?

 

[Acken]

That is very much unnecessary.. I think we're going to have to turn down the bonuses deity ai get.

I've already got another unreleased change that is killer in autoplays. And I have more work to do.

Ok, have only watched your mod in autoplay. Will have to see in game how it goes.

 

[notque]

Do you know why the AI cannot start the settling operation before turn 10 ?

I haven't checked, but I wouldn't want it to start before turn 10 anyway.

The independent powers are so strong, I have to ramp up the AI's units and defenses to handle them. Settling comes after stabilization, unless they have enough room to sneak some in.

 

[Acken]

I haven't checked, but I wouldn't want it to start before turn 10 anyway.

The independent powers are so strong, I have to ramp up the AI's units and defenses to handle them. Settling comes after stabilization, unless they have enough room to sneak some in.

I was asking in the context of what I wanted to achieve. The AI gets the settlers and units but before turn 10 it doesn't use them and then at turn 10 all AI start the operation according to the logs

 

[notque]

Ok, have only watched your mod in autoplay. Will have to see in game how it goes.

Yeah, I don't play the game.

But people seem to use and love the work, so I just assume my normal process is reasonable. The AI is crazy good ending the antiquity at the moment. I've been streaming auto plays on twitch.

I play civ 5.

 

[notque]

I was asking in the context of what I wanted to achieve. The AI gets the settlers and units but before turn 10 it doesn't use them and then at turn 10 all AI start the operation according to the logs

There is nothing specific I can think of that would cause that. But I also believe I've seen a settler as early as turn 12, which doesn't make sense with that.

I'm sorry though, I've worked all day. I'm not going to track it down now, but perhaps tomorrow if I find time.

 

[notque]

Ok, have only watched your mod in autoplay. Will have to see in game how it goes.

Oh i should mention, there is a new version out. I'm not sure if you've updated.

I have one more unreleased set of changes, I will probably do more, and then release a new version tomorrow.

 

[Xaviarlol]

Just to follow up on my feedback, I just had a war and lost and I think I need to lower difficulty (which is a great sign!)

The AIs played WAY better with the mod. I didn't see stupid settler behaviour. I will start a new game and see how I go.