Range limitations for units outside friendly territorry

[BareJag]

Range limitations for units outside friendly territorry.

This would be made this way;
Every unit have an own maximum amount of "supply" avalible, 40 for example. Every turn, they'll consume one general supplypoint. So after three turns, there's only 37 left, if the unit not move. An aditional point would be required each turn if the unit moves. no matter how much. When entering friendly or open border-territory, the supplyamount will be filled at once. The player doesen't need to fill it himself, as this is made automaticly. If the unit runs out of supply, it will get hurt, and loose health, every turn whitout supply. The amount would be maby -10%/turn. Here something have to be done preventing this effect to be neutralized if there's serveal units whit healing abillity. This would drasticly decrease the opperational area outside friendly territorry, and give much more realism to the game. A maximum supply of 40 would mean an practical movingrange of 10(turns) if the unit need to get back home the same way as it came. 20 supplypoints for moving, and 20 general supplypoints. The general supplypoints consumed every turn would prevent units to hold important enemy possitions for longer times than it in the reality would be possible whitout changing the troops, or filling the supply. If the units not regulary returns home for resupply, it will soon find itself in trouble. This solves the allready discussed problem of "supplylines and surrounding troops". But a stationary unit will still only consume half the amount of supply compared to units on the move, and therfore keep some more realism.



The maximum amount would generaly depend on the unit types and movement points.

High-supply units Recon units, late submarines, spies, merchants, missionaries and settlers would all have a large amount of supplypoints, allowing them to opperate in enemy land for long periods. These would allso have the possibillity to support other units on far away opperations.

As these have the avalibility to be promoted whit supply-promotions, these should have qite low maximum supply before they're promoted.

Example;
Caravels would have a maximum supply-point of 60 Whit an movement point of tree, it would be able to move a maximum of 15 turns (45 squares whitout promos) into neutral or unfriendly land, and then return to the same place again, or crossing a 90 square wide unfriendly or neutral area.

Example;
Explorers would be limited to 40 supply-points. Whit an movement point of two, it would be able to make an 30 square move and return, or a 60 square crossing.



Low-supply units Siegeunits, tanks, great people, workers and workboats would have low maximum supply, allowing them only to work close to the own lines, and when needed whit support from high-supply-units.

Example;
Catapults would be limited to 40 supply-points. Whit an movement point of one, it would be able to make an 10 square-assult on its own and return.

Example;
Tanks would be limited to 30 supply-points. Whit an movement point of two, it would be able to make an 15 square-assult on its own and return.



Normal-supply units Including most types of infantry, cavallery, helicopters, non-recon and non-nuclear ships, and all types of troopcarriers, both land and sea, would have an "normal" maximum supplypoint, allowing them to go deep into enemy territory, but not for long.

Example;
Axemen would have 60 supply-points. Whit an movement point of one, it would be able to make an 15 square-assult on its own and return.

Example;
Transports would have 16 supply-points. Whit an movement point of five, it would be able to make an 20 square- (four turn-) assult on its own and return, or a 40 sqaure (eight turn) crossing.



Airplanes do not need this system, as they're allready bound to friendly land.




High-supply-units (see above) would be allowed supply-promotions, giving them better supply level, and the avalibility to support others.

All these promotions would require any of these promotions;
Combat I
Woodsman I
Guerilla I

These promotions would be like this;

Supply I +10% maximum supply
Supply II +30% maximum supply
Supply III +60% maximum supply

This would require Supply I

Supply Aid +30% maximum supply in the same tile. At maximum +90%


This promotion should work the same way as the Aid Promotions in Total Realism.

Supply Aid should, if possible be configured, so that the Aid depends on the number of Non-Aid units nearby.

Supply would allways be calculated first when the turn ends, preventing unnesecary losses, as troops can't move simoltanesuysley in Civ4.

If the current supply is larger than the maximum, when an Aid-promoted unit leaves, the exeeding amount will be lost.

If the maximum supply rises, no supply will be added if not in friendly land. This happens when an unit is being promoted, or an Aid-promoted unit is joining.

Supply Aid should not work on other High-supply units. In that case, four wellpromoted units would gain +190% maximum supply, allowing them to go allmost everywhere.

Naval supply strengths may have to be made high enought to alow maps whit large seas, as Total Realism Earth map, to transport units owerseas.



This system would reqire some types of recognostisation units allways following armies in enemy Lands. This is the reality, like it have allways have been.

 

[bardolph]

I like it, though it may end up being a pain in the butt in the long run. Also, there should be ways to keep armies supplied in the field:

1) Woodsman promotions should allow units to resupply while in woods/jungle.
2) Guerrilla promotions should allow units to resupply while in hills.
3) Commando promotions should allow units to ignore supply rules while in enemy territory.
4) Medic promotions should increase maximum supply (and allow resupply of other units... see below).
5) Pillaging improvements (especially cottages) should resupply units.
6) Conquering a city should instantly resupply all units within one square of the conquered city.
7) "Out of supply" units should also lose the benefits of their promotions while out of supply (with the exception of the "resupplying promotions" above).

Another consideration is being able to have a supply line in hostile territory. Medic units should have a "resupply" function that distributes supply points to other units in the same space. When the medic is out of supply, they need to return to friendly territory to resupply.

Also, workers would need supply. However, they should also have the capability of resupplying military units if they have a surplus.

 

[Khan Quest]

In general I like the idea, but it could get tedious to track each unit in larger stacks. Could you suggest a way of handling stacks? Redistribution after fortifying one turn maybe?
If this is implimented, players will ask for a "re-supply unit". Can you suggest how this could be implimented

 

[bardolph]

In general I like the idea, but it could get tedious to track each unit in larger stacks. Could you suggest a way of handling stacks? Redistribution after fortifying one turn maybe?
If this is implimented, players will ask for a "re-supply unit". Can you suggest how this could be implimented

One possibility is for all units to have a "share supply" toggle. All units with "share supply" turned on will automatically redistribute their supply points to other units with "share supply - ON" in the same tile. Units with this toggle turned off would refuse to share and also refuse to accept sharing from other units.

As far as "re-supply" units, I'd assume that ALL units would be considered "re-supply" units, once supply sharing is implemented. Simply run a unit home to "load up," then supply sharing would automatically redistribute those supply points to the rest of the stack once the runner rejoins the stack.

Another suggestion is that the Medic promotion should automatically increase the supply capacity of a unit (by a lot... perhaps 50%-100% per Medic promotion). This way, multiple Medic-promoted units would have value for a large stack. The "primary" medic would stay with the stack to give them healing bonuses, while the other medics would make supply runs.

I would also make Scouts and Explorers immune to all supply requirements.

==============

Another possibility is a corollary to the supply rule, which is the "siege rule."

Any city that is not connected to their civ's trade network can only resupply a number of military units per turn equal to the city size, or no units if the city is also in starvation.

 

[BareJag]

1) Woodsman promotions should allow units to resupply while in woods/jungle.
2) Guerrilla promotions should allow units to resupply while in hills.
3) Commando promotions should allow units to ignore supply rules while in enemy territory.

When reaching Woodsman, Guerrilla and commando, the movement supply would be "unneeded", but the unit would still consume the basic supply.

4) Medic promotions should increase maximum supply (and allow resupply of other units... see below).

Medics are in the reality not used for this.

5) Pillaging improvements (especially cottages) should resupply units.
6) Conquering a city should instantly resupply all units within one square of the conquered city.
7) "Out of supply" units should also lose the benefits of their promotions while out of supply (with the exception of the "resupplying promotions" above).

Just what I was thinking of.

Also, workers would need supply. However, they should also have the capability of resupplying military units if they have a surplus.

This system would cover ALL units, exept for airplanes whitch are allready bound to friendly territorry.

One possibility is for all units to have a "share supply" toggle.

That's a good idea. An new unit will be added, a supply truck. This is simply a truck in the late game, and a horse whit a vaggon in the early game. These would cost one gold in supply as normal units. They're filler again in a friedly city. Two movement points. These would have large maximum supplylevels. These would when they arrive, give a fixed amount of supply to the troops. As these in the reality are nowdays organized in special formations, these would have them some deffending, but no attacking cappabilltiy, but not too high that they won't need escort. Then it would be a real challenge having campaigns far away enemy territorry.

 

[bardolph]

When reaching Woodsman, Guerrilla and commando, the movement supply would be "unneeded", but the unit would still consume the basic supply.

Of course, if you're working on a mod, what you do is up to you. The question is whether or not certain units can "live off the land," or if they must eventually resupply. With Woodsman and Guerrilla, perhaps the amount of discount can vary by level. For example:

level 1: no movement cost
level 2: no "basic supply" cost
level 3: can resupply in the given terrain (+1 supply per turn, or whatever).

I really think commando units should be able to ignore supply rules. This would allow spies to operate without having to make supply runs. Besides, Commando units in the field are rare enough that this would not be unbalancing.

Medics are in the reality not used for this.

Fair enough. I was thinking about gameplay more than historical accuracy. The Medic promotion currently suffers from the problem that only one medic is required per stack, and so it becomes a proportionally rare promotion in the field. Giving them increased supply gives the promotion a dual purpose, so that it can be used more often.

This system would cover ALL units, exept for airplanes whitch are allready bound to friendly territorry.

Requiring scouts, explorers, and spies to resupply would be extremely annoying, and would probably make these units not worth building at all.

An new unit will be added, a supply truck. This is simply a truck in the late game, and a horse whit a vaggon in the early game. These would cost one gold in supply as normal units. They're filler again in a friedly city. Two movement points. These would have large maximum supplylevels. These would when they arrive, give a fixed amount of supply to the troops. As these in the reality are nowdays organized in special formations, these would have them some deffending, but no attacking cappabilltiy, but not too high that they won't need escort. Then it would be a real challenge having campaigns far away enemy territorry.

This is a possibility, but I would prefer to work supply and resupply into existing units, instead of requiring players to spend hammers on units whose only capability is carrying supplies to the front. The more "transparent" the supply rules, the better. A player should only have to worry about supply when they are away from home for a long time, and being able to trace a line back home should be enough to "prove" that their army is in supply. This would be smoother and more fun than forcing the player to micromanage the building and movement of units such as supply wagons.

Another possibility is to give Workers a high supply cap, so they can double as "supply wagons" in a pinch.

What do you think of the "siege" mechanics I suggested earlier?

 

[Bennett]

Rathar than loose health, I would suggest that for low levels of supplies, the units get progressively more massive combat and movement penalites. Unless they are on a desert, or a glacier units will probably be able to survive, but they will run low on equipment. Perhaps the supplies come in the form of resources, for instance early units require food, whereas later ones require food, oil, and ammunition/spare parts which are produced in cities. Units could then gain a fraction of the resources that are produced on the terrain they occupy. This way you won't have a single pike formation starving in the middle of a large farming region. Although you would have a 100000 man army starving if they are hemmed into such a small space.