RB20 - Miller Time

Iustus said:
...we could make a science city, with an academy and we could start merging in scientists. This is particularly effective under Representation. For now, probably should just keep it in the back of our mind.

Merging specialists is MUCH less attractive on huge maps. Golden Ages tend to be really good in the later stages of the game, while Lightbulbing can help get us through the difficult early stages of this variant.

There's no reason we can't have some good science cities, but spending, say, FOUR great scientists on an Academy and three settled specialists could have been four Lightbulbed techs moving us along to being able to expand to more cities more quickly, and to stay in the early tech trading loop.

If we were going to settle scientists, that would have needed to be the plan from the outset, and to have already settled our first couple. We've gone the other route and I think we should stick with that now. There are a lot of valid ways to play out a game, but repeatedly changing tracks is one of the least effective.


- Sirian
 
Good point about the merging specialists. Tech costs are increased on larger maps, IIRC, but the superspecialists don't scale up.

Anyway, I played our turns. By the end we picked up Currency, Feudalism, Horseback Riding and Code of Laws, and we still have our Great Scientist asleep in Washington. We're in the middle of the pack now, GDP wise.

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1025AD I gifted Drama to Alex to see if he'll then be willing to trade Currency or Code of Laws (can't remember which - probably because I had a golf tournament today and Miller Time kicked off around 10AM.)

Chicago is running a big food surplus so I switch from a farm to a lake for much needed commerce.

NY is at the happiness limit anyway so I switch from a flood plain farm to a plains farm for another hammer. I also hire priests in NY and Washington. We'll have about a 25% chance of getting a great Prophet for our next Great Person.

1040AD Alex still won't open up any other trade options, so it's blockbuster time:

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Mansa isn't too worried about Feudalism as a monopoly tech since he's willing to trade it the turn he got it. I start a revolt to serfdom - let's get started on the mills. This trade opens up Longbowmen, Horsearchers, Markets, Feudalism and an extra trade route. Things are looking up.

1055AD Napoleon cancels our Open Borders, I don't think he liked that trade with Mansa.

Code of Laws in 22 at 20% science with a 1 gold surplus.

We lost one of our Guerrilla 2 archers near Washington to an axeman. I sell Drama to Genghis for 180 gold and upgrade one of the archers in DC to a Longbowman.

Our first windmill is done in Atlanta - a very nice 2f 1h 3c tile. I look around for more hills on a river. There aren't any within our BFCs that aren't forested. Except for the Pigs in New York. I think hard about building a windmill there since we have a second source of pigs, but in the end I decide not to trade 2 food for 2 commerce. The option is still there though.

1060AD I start a horse archer in Boston so that we can have some mobility for defense. Our population has reached 2 million.

1085AD Code of Laws in 11 turns at 40% science and deficit spending.

1100AD Great Library is built far away.

How long have we had Calendar? I check the rules in the beginning of this thread and start a silk plantation. Five more commerce there friends.

I also ask Cyrus if he can spare 5 gpt since we have nothing to trade. Turns out he can, and we'll have enough to finish Code of Laws before Sirian takes over. I swear by the many arms of Vishnu that Cyrus is my favorite Hindu.

I also sell Drama to Frederick for 160 gold so that we can upgrade another archer.

1106AD Napoleon asks us to cancel our deals with Mansa. I tell him no, but Mansa is running pretty hot economically and will become a powerhouse. And he's not too popular. Yes might have been the right answer here.

Washington is getting swarmed and it got pretty well pillaged.
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Alexander declares on Peter.

I sell Drama to Toku for 350 gold.

1112AD Looks like Vladivostok isn't that far from our borders - 6 tiles separate it's land from Chicago's. Might be a good place for a road.

1118AD Our missionary and chariot play hide and seek with a warrior and swordsman.

1124AD :beer:

1130AD I start a couple of watermills in New York over existing farms. One of the farms can be replaced on a river bend, but overall the watermills will be better improvements for the long run.

1136AD to 1142AD Dealing with barbs, nothing noteworthy.

1148AD Code of Laws is complete. I start Guilds and drop to 30% science, ending deficit spending. Guilds in 56 turns. Not sure if that's the right tech to go for, though Civil Service is pretty useless since we can't use Bureaucracy and don't have Iron.

1154AD A bunch of archers and warrior have bypassed Seattle to reave about Atlanta. Our horse archer dies in his first engagement trying to take an archer off of our windmill. Our warrior cleans up after him, but our 'phants have been injured and drawn out of position from Seattle.

Also, I notice that the barb axemen are smart enough to not attack combat 2 shock longbowmen in forested hills. Too bad about that. We'll have to wait to he hits open terrain, then attack him (NW of DC)

1160AD Sirian, pay close attention to the barb situation in Seattle right now. I'm sure you'll know what's best, but we got hit with two big waves recently.

I should have sent a worker or two up to San Fran - once we get a plantation on the dyes, we'll have enough commerce to generate some culture and we'll start expanding. Don't make the same mistake and forget it too!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Miller_AD-1160.Civ4SavedGame
 
1130AD I start a couple of watermills in New York over existing farms. One of the farms can be replaced on a river bend, but overall the watermills will be better improvements for the long run.
Tell me, what do we gain in the short run ?
 
We gain hammers in a city that's at its happiness limit. And isn't using either of its farmed flood plains right now. With the pigs and three flood plains, there's plenty of food, but with no mines, it's Miller Time.

Too bad Caste System is on the forbidden civic list - running a bunch of priests could certainly get us our shrine quicker.
 
Tatran said:
I prefer 1 food over 1 hammer.

*points to the game title*

But in this game, apparently, you mostly prefer mills. Right? ... Right? :D


I played. Should have a full report up this evening.


- Sirian
 
IT 1160AD: I change Seattle to Theater. NYC and DC are still missing granaries after 1000AD? Nobody found time to slip them in? I guess I'll be the one to bite the bullet and make it happen. I would have preferred to see Philly do a Forge before Library, since it never will have the food to feed specialists and is already maxed on commerce. However, I decide to let the Library finish anyway, since so much is already invested.

I change research to Polytheism and increase science rate to 40%, due in four at deficit research.

This leaves Atlanta as the only possibility for training more troops. It's already doing a Longbow, but I swap tiles to a higher shield config to get it done sooner. Mike said there was chaos in the area, but the real threat looks to be the swordsman coming toward New York, which has only a CG3 Archer anywhere in the vicinity. A Jumbo from DC can just barely make it over there before the sword attacks the city, so I send him. Not much to do about our wounded Jumbos between Atlanta and Seattle except hope for favorable dice (or that the axe nearby pillages the farm instead of attacking, but barbs on "gang rush" mode tend to do more attacking).


IBT: The axe does attack, and loses. In the west, an Axe attacks our Longbow on point and loses. The archer near our hurt Jumbos attacks also, and loses. So far so good!

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Our farm at Seattle was spared.


1166AD: We are rated third in the world in military power! :goodjob:

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This bodes well for our ability to avoid wars in the short term. Certainly Peter and Alex are busy. Liz and Cyrus like us. Toku could be tempted to commit sepuku, but we are strong on our western border and he could not be bringing anything (yet) that would scare us. So it's just the barbs for now.

Notice that "Chariot wins" alert? Oof. Badly hurt in that fight. Going to spend a bunch of turns parked, and praying.

Whoever got us that Medic (I forget) gets an extra case of beer delivered. :beer:

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I move the medic out to treat our banged-up "cavalry". Only needs more XP to get to Medic II. I'll see if I can find a likely opportunity for that during my round.

I'm not quite sure why our missionary was sent in to the tooth of this black fog. :smoke:

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Going through Liz's territory would be much safer. I would have taken the path shown by the green line in the minimap, rather than the yellow line that was taken. If the units survive long enough, I plan to make a course correction along the pink vector, both for safety and for speed (roads). Might as well get something out of our Open Borders deal, right?


1172AD: Rather than heading for Atlanta, as I expected, the enemy sword unit moves due west, to threaten our wounded Jumbos? Atlanta has only a CG3 Archer in there, with a Woodsman II Warrior outside the city (not sure what he is doing there, to be honest, but right now he's emergency cover if the sword moves toward the city!) I sit tight, moving nothing. Much healing needs to occur!

Next turn, the sword moves NW on to the flood plain? Seems the barbs are operating the same as we are, in SG fashion with plans changing from one round to the next! :lol: ;)
 
Anyway, the enemy infestation is fully removed from the area:

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There had been two more axe and a warrior SE of Seattle...
...but they wandered off to the south instead of attacking, so this is it.
Killed an axe and archer on defense the first turn.
Killed an axe and now a sword on offense in the second and third turns.

The Jumbo I moved to New York absorbed the incoming Sword, taking heavy wounds in the process.
That leaves only a pesterly Warrior to contend with.

The pressure's off! :cool:


1184AD: Discover Polytheism. Check F4. Cyrus needs Currency. Let's make a deal. :cooool:

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I could have gotten Monotheism for free in the deal, but skipped it for WFYABTA purposes.

Here we are at NYC:

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Our Woody-2 Warrior is coming up from Atlanta.
We can't stop them from Pillaging, I'm afraid. Our Jumbo is too hurt!


1190AD: Ha! The barbs went for the porkers! :smoke:

With one turn of healing under their belt, and now at Str 4/8, our Jumbo has a high 90%ish chance.

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Hands off my spare ribs, you theiving heathens!

A man's got to have something good to eat.
Followed, of course, by chasing it down with a cold one. :beer: :cool:

Don't touch my oinkers. That's all I've got to say on that score.


I had Boston training a missionary. In 1208, it completes.
Also, the city reached size 11 and swaps to break-even food and max shields.
Our writer-poet Francis Scott Key, from Boston, starts compiling the story of how our flag still stood at Fort Porkchop. :mischief:

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Oh, and I develop an infatuation with White Dot(TM)!

Just seeing that one silk tile pulling in 5gpt, and knowing there are TWO MORE in reach...!

With the military situation in hand, a settler is started at Atlanta. :satan:
 
1226AD: Oof. Sorry, pal, not handing that one over to you.

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We did pop another Scientist. I thought about leaving them both asleep. However, it occurred to me to wonder what would lightbulb next, after Optics. It could not be Paper, so... it must be Astronomy! :eek: An early Astronomy would net us early access to Observatories, which grant 25% science boost and allow a third Scientist specialist. We would need two scientists to pop the tech, but I made the call. We don't need to spend eons debating what to do with the leaders, so as much as to avoid that fate as for the benefits, I committed us to this course.

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Our next Scientist, which may pop soon actually, can finish the research with another Lightbulb. We're now on course for Early Biology, which will feed yet more specialists going in to the industrial era, and we have tech-trading material probably for longer than we'll have access to traded tech, since as yet we have no true friends. :eek:

Mansa, by the way, got converted to Christianity, and the instance is in his largest city. We'd have needed to send two or three missionaries to have any hope of making that plan work. However, the missionary and chariot are still alive and heading that way, for whatever that may be worth.


1232AD: Alex has a proposal.

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If this move were allowed by our variant rules, I'd have taken the offer. Alex could become that true friend that we need. I had to turn him down, though. Still, good that he's roughing up Peter and not us. Poor Peter, who lacks army strength, while we are packing longbows and jumbos and not looking like anybody's female dog, if you know what I mean. :lol:


1238AD: That missionary I trained in Boston arrives in SanFran.

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The road is also almost finished. Note our Woody2 Warrior earning his pay with fogbusting duty.

Strauss will have a connected city with borders expanding and two workers in the area. Enough to connect a Dyes, for sure. Will need more beef in the area to protect outlying resources from pillage, though. Still, Sugar and Bananas not TOO far off in the future. I certainly got things moving in that direction.

Although our military situation is COMPLETELY secure at the moment, there is a mini-wave of incoming at Seattle:

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Gray Dot has caught my eye. It's on a hill, grabs most of the lake, the wheat, some farmlands. Good looking site, overall.


The Longbow I trained out of Atlanta this round is moved in to the forest in the SE corner of our border and promoted to Combat II. We are mostly dealing with barbarian foot units, but at some point they may come with Horse Archers or Longbows of their own. I thought it wouldn't hurt to head for a Combat III Longbow capable of responding to any threat. Leaving him parked in the forest on a semi-permanent basis will anchor that choke point. With +75% Str (forest and fortify) and a First Strike, that should chew up any incoming. If/when we grab Gray Dot, the cows and wheat would then become "back line" territory and be much more likely to be protected successfully -- but only if that Longbow stays put.

After learning Polytheism, I did go back to the Guilds research plan. Not a lot of power to put behind it, as yet, but the only other alternative is to research Monotheism, since just about everything else could be tech trade fodder.


1250AD: Mansa builds Angkor Wat. He looks to be the prime competition, at the moment, powered in part by trades with us.

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One last military shot, of clearing most of the incoming threat at Seattle.

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Zero American losses were incurred in the making of this round's report. :cooool:

Oh, and I spent our money from the trade with Cyrus on upgrading the CG3 Archer in NYC to Longbow. Atlanta is still guarded by a mere Archer, though, so keep that in mind!

We had practically zero activity in the Chicago area. Not sure why, but the AIs may be settling nearby, reducing the fog. Plus it seems for sure there are no barb cities in that vicinity.

Our expedition encounters a Malinese war party:

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Mali is not currently at war. They are clearly going to sneat attack somebody, though. A barb city, if not an AI. I'm fairly sure they are not headed our way, but their intent is not clear. A French city sits behind them. If they were attacking France, why would they have moved PAST a French city? ... Anyway, that's not my problem any more, at least for a couple more centuries. :lol:
 
During my round, I built roads through the pass from Atlanta to Philly/DC:

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Now that we are in Serfdom, work is progressing at a nice clip!
I also built four mills at DC, and some more at NYC.
Seattle has one worker, and I moved some back toward Chicago, roading as they go.
I also essentially completed the road north to SF:

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It's not fully secure, but under no immediate threat.

DC and NY got their Granaries and started on Forges.
Unless some dire need emerges, I urge that path to continue.
Both cities have room to grow and should be run on high food.

Meanwhile, Atlanta and Boston are maxed out on city size and can handle military needs.
Atlanta is also a good spot for building more settlers as needed.
Although Atlanta could sure use a Forge.

Chicago is almost done with its Forge and has lots of good tiles.
It should be ready for action soon.

Philly is just limping along. I think it needs a Forge next.
Could be out of action for a while, building basics.
It carried a lot of military load for a long time and needs to catch up.
Boston will soon be able to carry a heavy military load anyway.

Seattle and SF need to focus on investments.
They plus Chicago should seriously consider Courthouses soon.
SF had needed culture, but I sent a Missionary to them for that.
Seattle got Taoism so will NEED a missionary arriving before it runs any specialists!


Our Demographics in 1250AD:

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How'd you like to be the poor civ with only 29 spt? :eek:

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We still have two warriors, but are both earning their keep with fogbusting:

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Eight Jumbos, seven Longbows, third in army strength, competing on tech.

Not too shabby. Good job, guys. :goodjob:
 
Our Power Graph flatlined during my round. Only the one Longbow trained. (Our line is blue):

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However, that should start climbing again once Mr. Key completes his Epic Work, The Star-Spangled Banner. :D


We've killed an awful lot of barbarians:

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At least now we have Granaries everywhere.


Here's what the cities are working on and where they stand:

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ZERO Courthouses or Markets built as yet.
Really need forges first, though, with our shield-poor early-game situation.


Finally, an updated DotMap(TM):

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White and Gray Dots have been added in.

If I were playing the next round, I'd use the settler from Atlanta to grab White.
* That region has seen very few barbs.
* Our military in that area is a bit stronger.
* The site is more at risk to be taken by an AI.

However, Gray is a valid alternative. The site itself is just as good, but...
...That is where barb infestation has been the heaviest, steadily for many moons now.
I'm not sure we have enough units to be certain to keep that whole flank secured.

We might consider trying to expand to White, Gray -and- Orange by my next round, though! :eek:
If we get Dyes and Bananas online, our core cities will grow larger.
Courthouses should be coming soon. Markets could be built. Merchants hired.

At least it is food for thought.

I'm sure Strauss will choose wisely. Especially if we make a new rule, "Miller Time really IS about beer, when Strauss is Up." :lol:


Anyway... You know what time it is. :cooool:

:beer:


- Sirian
 
Excellent work. About the missionary and chariot, I didn't want to send them east from Atlanta since there were about six inbound barbs. So I sent them through the hills NE of NY (where the sword came from eventually), then got trapped on the wrong side of a mountain ridge that hadn't been revealed. I was trying to make for a safe passage through England, but things went awry. Nice to know they're still alive.

I just looked at the map and want to second that we really need to get San Francisco developed. With the dyes and a couple of windmills on the river, it will have very nice commerce and with 3 flood plains, bananas and sugar there's plenty of food, even with all of that useless jungle.

And one more suggestion for the dotmap - along the lake 2N of the Copper which is NE of NY.
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There's sugar to get the growth started, fresh water, and lots of windmills. All four grassland hills will be self supporting and the sugar can carry a desert hill and the plains hill/copper. There's also three lake tiles and the other two desert hills can use the surplus from the center tile. With windmills everywhere we could get 11 hammers base, with another 8 after replaceable parts. More importantly, after electricity each of the 8 windmills will also provide 3 commerce with our Financial bonus. Add that to the lakes and we'll have a pretty nice site. It's also very defensible. Thanks to the mountains to the east, 2 bowmen should seal most of our eastern flank. It's not a higher priority than white or gray, but it will make one hell of a windfarm after a couple more techs and will be productive from the start.
 
Mike's Dot! I like it. Like Yellow Dot, it's a relatively safe spot we can postpone grabbing, but maybe after we get white and gray, orange and light blue, we should grab this among the first "filler" spots.

Good eye! :scan:

:beer:


- Sirian
 
Looking good!

Whoever got us that Medic (I forget) gets an extra case of beer delivered.

I believe that was me. We had one elephant there at the time, 3 mobs were incoming and the elephant was injured. With an unpromoted archer that could get medic right away, it seemed the right thing to do. Glad he is still serving his purpose!

We are more or less on the tech route to replaceable parts, right?

Can you explain the reasoning in researching Polytheism? I know we did not need it, any idea how much it discounted later techs? I have no clue on the numbers to see when such a move makes sense, does anyone know how the discounts work?

-Iustus
 
IT (1250 AD): Checking if everything is in order, and it is.

Turn 2 (1262 AD): Liz asks us to cancel deals with Alex. Since it seems we’ll never get Alex as a friend anyway, I comply to her demands.

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Turn 3 (1268 AD): Atlanta finishes Settler, start on Forge. I send the Settler to White Dot.

Turn 6 (1298 AD): Key has finished the Epic about Sirian's famous stand at Fort Porkchop:rolleyes:.

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Turn 9 (1304 AD):
Found Los Angeles at White Dot, and just in time! A Russian Settler was seemingly intending to settle 2 tiles away. A barb warrior slips past my attention and pillages Washington’s pigs pasture. No Heroic Epic about me I suppose!

Turn 10 (1310 AD):
Alexander has captured Moscow! Galilei is born in Washington and I use him to finish Astronomy, which saves us 58 turns of research :lol:. We enter the Renaissance!

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The second time Sirian beelines for Astronomy on a Highlands map;).

Turn 13 (1328 AD): Now this is :smoke:!

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Buddha: "I told you you were holding the map upside down:gripe:!"

Turn 15 (1340 AD): My reign ends.

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---------------------------------------------------------------

Our economy is still poor as you can see, although the Dyes and Silk have certainly helped us, and there are still some commerce resources to connect. Courthouses and Markets will be more important though. Right now only Chicago has a Courthouse and is also the only city building a Market. We should stop training military units for now since they are costing us a lot, as is city maintenance at 31 :commerce:!. Did anyone mention that we need Courthouses:mischief:? Perhaps switching to Courthouse right now would be better than waiting for the Forge to finish......

Our diplomatic situation: we have 2 friends, Liz and Cyrus. Frederick and Mansa Musa are bound to become friends, especially with Free Religion.
 
Looks good. Yes, the second time for early Astronomy on Highlands map for me. Not so much planned this time, but same reasoning for pressing ahead from where we were.

I'd definitely urge to finish the forges first. Short term pain for much longer term gain, as it's the only way to boost shield output and speed along all future projects. Nothing is going salvage our economy now except time (the time to build our cities upward, reducing costs and improving income). Going to Banking after Guilds would seem to be in order.

I would also continue to train units at least out of Boston. Slipping in a Missionary or Courthouse is fine, but we will still want to expand to Orange and Gray dots sooner rather than later. We don't NEED to worry about economy or research at the moment as we're not behind in military tech, we do have plenty of tech trading material, we're not in to WFYBTA yet, and we have no way to reclaim territory the AI happens to poach out from under us. Thus at this point, economy can wait. Land grab is going to be painful any time we try it, and at least now we have reached a point where our core cities, building Forges, Courthouses, Markets and Grocers, can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.


Tatran's up next. Looking forward to seeing what he achieves. :beer:


- Sirian
 
Very quiet turns.
We didn't lose any units to the barbs.

IBT 1352 AD
Frederick also declares war on Peter.

IBT 1358 AD
Genghis and Napoleon demand we cancel our trades with Mali.No.

IBT 1370 AD
Tokugawa demands to cancel our deals with Germany.No.

1382 AD (7)
Elizabeth's worst enemy is Alexander.

IBT 1400 AD
Peter asks us to declare war on the Greeks.No.

1412 AD (12)
Mansa Musa has a new worst enemy Tokugawa.
Houston founded.

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1430 AD (15)
Cyrus' worst enemy is Tokugawa.

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You know what time it is.

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It's MILLER time. :D
 
Wow, those new American babes from Houston look really hot on the beach in their "swimsuits". :eek:

I foresee much barbarian activity in that area in the near future! :mischief:

We've picked up a Dot per round. Can the trend continue?!? :cool:


- Sirian
 
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