RB20 - Miller Time

[Sirian]

IT 1865AD: I pore over the map and find that there is still some unclaimed land in the southeast, as well as scattered half-city dots on the fringes. There is also an unknown situation the the far northeast, beyond the formerly-barbarian Malinese city. I wake a unit from Tampa Bay and send him in to England to see what's up there. I cancel most of our "building research" projects and replace most of those with settlers or workers. Five settlers are ordered off the bat. I wake some troops in the southeast and shuffle them toward the frontier.

I add a second Artist at Cleveland and one or two other cities.

On the tech front, Cyrus is willing to trade both Biology and Railroads, while Frederick is willing to trade Railroads. We have Communism (monopoly!) and Electricity to offer both, and Cyrus lacks Democracy too.

* I can only get Railroads from Fred by giving both techs and breaking our monopoly. I could then trade Democracy and Communism to Cyrus for Biology.

* I can get Railroads from Cyrus by giving Electricity and Democracy.

I choose neither. I trade Electricity to Cyrus straight up for Biology, and I continue our research in to Radio.


1866AD: I trade Biology and Electricity to Fred for Railroads.

Unfortunately, the screens I took were corrupted, and in fact the game crashed on me before the end of this turn. I had to load from autosave and replay the turn. You've got a detailed text description of the trades, though, so that will have to do.

Our workers, where possible, begin construction of rails. Getting DC and NYC fully railed (on lumbermills) by the end of my round will be a priority. Boston is switched over from training Rifles to training Machine Guns.


1868AD: I sell Divine Right to France for 420g.

The first of the new settlers are completed. I order a sixth out of Buffalo and a Taoist Missionary in NYC. Although England is discovered to have two cities in the region that had looked empty, I send our new settler from Atlanta in that direction anyway, as there are still a couple of potential spots.


1869AD: Cleveland, sporting 750 total culture and two Artists, has taken back control over its first ring tiles!

We're checking in at a cool and commanding 50.00001% control.


OK, wow. I've actually spotted a worthwhile city location in the far northeast that is yet unclaimed. Two flood plains, two plains forest, a couple of desert hills, nestled in between the Mali city and England. Fortunately, somebody was already sending a settler this way on a hunch.


1870AD: The Horse Archer that was sent on long GoTo to a hut at the bottom edge of the map arrives. The hut is in forest and guarded by an Axe. Our odds are like 22% or something sad, but the HA has an unused promotion. I promote him to Shock, and the odds jump up to 3/8.

Losing odds, but this unit was sent a long way to conduct this mission.

I've got just one thing to say to you. Just one thing.

"Feeling lucky today, punk?"

Our unit is ordered in to battle.

...

...

...



Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!

We are rewarded with a useless gift of map data, for a fully known map, but that's beside the point. Victory itself was the prize here.

 

[Sirian]

1870-1874AD: Settlers trek along various roads toward outlying regions. Workers are trained, tracks laid. A seventh settler is completed, an eighth started. The first our newest cities are planted.

1875AD: We enter the Modern Age:

The 420 cash we got from Nappy sped Radio by a turn (making up for me cancelling most "building" research cities). I discover that our Engineer will contribute only 1500 shields to Eiffel, which needs 1875 to complete. I could give up on Eiffel and grab RockNRoll, which is only 1200 shields, while I could obtain Iron and try to self-build Eiffel. Eiffel is like the uberwonder for border wars, though, which means points, while RockNRoll would provide happiness, of which we are already abundantly supplied. The final option is to self-build 375 shields worth of Eiffel and then use the Engineer to finish.

I check out our Iron possibilities. Several friends will trade Iron to us, but most of them want Coal in exchange, along with several of our last-supply of this or that AND also a big chunk of gold per turn.

Ultimately, after poring over Active trades, I cancel our existing deals with Fred and re-supply him with some of what we were already trading to him. We lost an incoming Sheep and Deer, but apparently we have those resources online now within our own borders? So we lose NOTHING? I still have to throw in a source of Incense, though.

Whoever said, "These extra Bananas will be valuable in trade," was a genius.

We are now trading away all excess Bananas. We are trading away ALL Incense, but there is one more source in the far north that could be colllected and connected. I leave that to my successors, as we have zero Workers in that region at the moment.

NOTE: The Iron will help fuel Ironworks production, so we should probably keep this deal going for as long as Seattle is still in the running to produce world wonders. (It should be starting on a Mass Media wonder, probably Hollywood, in the early going of Strauss's round).

Washington puts Wall Street on the backburner and starts Eiffel. NYC starts Rock-n-Roll.


1876AD: A number of our newer cities are lacking the state religion. Heck, this even includes Red Dot city! Unfortunately, the pesky Christians in Red Dot have contaminated the minds of the locals, who are UNINTERESTED in learning meditations that will help them enjoy the American GOODNESS.

Rejected!

You can see I'm doing Dry Farming. I've actually worked on most of the available dry farming opportunities, even ahead of rails where farming is possible.


1877AD: Mansa comes calling, wanting Radio already.

Rejected!


ARRGH! Stupid barbarians!

Our first settler produced this round beelined straight for Pink Dot.

They would have made it on my round if not for this pest popping up!

The settler could have gotten on the road and settled in 1880AD, but no. The "barbarian cultural influence" blocks use of the road! Arrrrrrrgh. ARRRRRR. Oof.

Now instead of four turns to arrive and plant, it will take six.

Oh, and the indignity of the fact that THEY can use the roads, so we'll have to be careful here.

...


That city must burn.

 

[Sirian]

Actually, the barbs could have been positioned worse. At least here, they are not blocking either of the two dots our settlers are chasing.

We can continue as planned, sending a cleanup crew when convenient to flatten Bantu. (Don't want to let it grow to size 2 and be captured by England, though!)


1878AD: Khan's hatred of Mansa is unrelenting! We have SIX accumulated penalties for refusing to betray Mali. SIX!

"Like, dude. You've got to stop holding grudges like that. So he made a pass at your sister? Big deal."



Anyway, with three turns in to Eiffel, I expend our Engineer.


1879AD: YES!

All our beleagered border cities, especially CLEVELAND, are jumping for joy!

All our brand spanking new cities get to have a 6cpt Artist for FREE, starting immediately.

WHAT TIME IS IT?!?


1880AD: My last turn. I've had our "Scouting Jumbo" parked outside a barb city in the north for five turns now, waiting for it to grow to size 2.

I wish I had thought to produce a NINTH settler, and sent it up here earlier in my round, but I didn't. (If we had a settler up there, we could simply attack the city, raze and replace on the desert plot one north of the current city! Then farm over the city ruins. ... Oh well. Maybe still time for that, or maybe we just wait for it to grow to size 2.)

Unfortunately, I think these guys...

...are heading that way, so there may not be time to wait for the settler.

Worst case would be to burn down the city before the Malinese can take it, then hope our settler is fastest in arriving up there.

Strauss will figure out something good, I'm sure.

 

[Sirian]

Two spies were produced on my round, after Scotland Yard finished.
The first spy has reached the closest Malinese city. Here is what she learned:

One quarter done with Radio.
Seven turns and he'll have it, vs sixteen turns left to go on RocknRoll at NYC.
We're simply going to have to pray that he does not have an Engineer to spare.

Haha! This city is trading with West Point. (Bet you never saw that before.)

Those Marines he's training are scary, but our Marines are our UU...
...and they are serious business with those two first strikes.
Just a little farther up the tech tree and we'll be in good shape.

NOTE THAT HE HAS NO COAL! Do not -- DO NOT -- trade any to him!


Our newer Spy slipped across the border in to Russia, en route to Germany.

This is what she saw on a brief pit stop in a Russian city:

Not a lot of interest there. Probably the last time we bother spying on Peter.


Anyway, back to Mansa. We've already completed Eiffel.
We've got enough of a head start on Rock-n-Roll that we WILL get that one, too, barring an AI using an Engineer.
The AIs will get a chance to use that Engineer (or at least Mansa will) whether we trade Radio to them or not.

Checking the trade willingness, we have this cascade:

* Cyrus is willing to trade Combustion.
* Frederick is willing to trade Combustion and Assembly Line.
* Mansa is willing to trade Combustion, Assembly Line and Artillery.

A classic 4-fer? It's now or never on this deal, because the value of Radio to Mansa is dropping by the turn.

...

...

...

...

*BANG!*

...

...

...

(That was the sound of me pulling the trigger.)

We had to throw in some change to make him happy.
Close call on that deal! To the last penny.

I start (or queue) Factories at a number of our cities.


NOTE: Remember that we are not allowed to build Coal Plants!
You'll have to watch for accidentally ordering one to be built.


Now for the DotMap(TM)-ing. Pink and Green Dots:

Both sites can be settled on Strauss's second turn in.

Green Dot will take some finesse, though, thanks to the pests at Bantu:

The settler can cross the Copper Clearing (yellow arrow).
The Woody-2 Musket can traverse the forest (light blue arrow).
Then together they can follow the road and found the city on the second turn.

Pink Dot is just point and click.


If the NINTH settler from this round, under construction in Atlanta, is sent northeast...
(you know, toward that barbarian city our Jumbo Scout is hovering over)
...then we will need a TENTH settler to grab New White Dot.

I can't believe we missed this dot!


Note that as soon as the city is settled, you need to go to SanFran and take back the Dyes for that city.

 

[Sirian]

The United States of the Highlands:

The six tiny pink dots are the sites of our newly settled cities.

There are two in the far north, on the edge of the map.
One at the Cows/grassland-forests; one at the Rice/desert-hills.

There is one on the river in the far northeast, Honolulu.

There is one in the far west corner.

There is one in the deep south, right on the border with Greece, near Mycenae.
I had wanted to settle one tile south of where I did, but...
...Greek borders popped, covering the spot I wanted, three turns before the settler arrived.
The Greeks founded Eretria a turn later.
I was still able to grab the "runner up" location, which is worthwhile.
Farm the horses and it can feed plenty of lumberjacks.

The sixth pink dot, Anchorage, is one of three sites in the far southeast.
The other two are Pink and Green dots, already detailed.

In all, eight new settlers, eight sites, and I OVERLOOKED New White Dot.
So that's at least nine, and maybe ten if we send a settler to "Jumbo Scout" site.


That would leave only Black Dot, that 8-tile gap in the middle of our country.
That site got a lot worse when its two farmlands grew over.
It's now actually worse than Black Dot was in RB1, and that's saying something.

What we might do with Black Dot is train a settler for Jumbo Scout...
...and if it's not needed there, in the end, then bring it back for Black Dot.
Note that New Black Dot (the best new site) is SOUTH of the lake, not east of it.


Barring wars that raze cities and leave gaps, this should be the end of our territorial expansionism.

So here's a closer look at the various regions.

First, Honolulu and Jumbo Scout (which has three Spices, by the way):

Omaha and Everglades, our two new sites in the north (plus White Dot is shown):

The northwest:

Note that I spread Taoism to Sidon, yet Cyrus is still in his state religion.
I do not believe we will ever see him convert to Free Religion.
The only chance is if a Christian or Muslim missionary reaches one of his cities...
...and that seems highly doubtful. Certainly it's not possible in the near term!


The southeast is now SO BIG it must be shown in two parts.

The east-southeast, including Dots:

The west-southeast, including Forbidden Palace at Buffalo:

I wanted Sacramento one plot south of where it ended up, but...
...it would have been under flip pressure there, so maybe better where it is!


Finally, the southwest, with our new National Park city at Yellowstone:

Note that I decided to build Globe Theater in Cincinnati...
...which is under pressure from three overlapping Persian cities.

We still have Hermitage available.
I was thinking we might want to put that in either Memphis or Oakland...
...where we are trying to flip (or at least dominate) alien cities.

 

[Sirian]

As I mentioned earlier in the report, many of our newer cities need Buddhist missionaries.

Yellow Circles show some of the sites where I spread Buddhism on this turn.

Pink Circles are known-confirmed sites needing a Buddhist, but there are some more unmarked.

I recommend paying a visit to both F7 and F5 as part of checking out the inherited turn.
Clicking on different units types on F5, and watching what blinks where, might help acclimate.


Cyrus went Emancipation the moment he got Democracy.
I'm not sure who else is in it, but we countered the angries with the GOODNESS happiness boost from Eiffel.

We should be able to stay in Feudalism as far as the eye can see.

We should get to Medicine and Environmentalism soon, though.


I achieved my goal of fully tracking DC and NYC, and got Ironworks-city Seattle done too.

LOTS of rails and tile improvements to be working on.
Lots of worker-training to do. (We're up to 42 but could use another 20 or 30, to be honest).

To the best of my knowledge, no impact from Drunken Stupor this round.

Of course, I may simply be too inebriated to see it.

 

[Sirian]

Now a word about the new upload system.

I've always appreciated CivFanatics for its extraordinary support of succession gaming, a very bandwidth-intensive venture to be sure. There were times in which the succession gaming niche of the CFC community brought the entire server crashing down, due to overloading the file system and forum attachments. The CFC leadership never grew cross with us over it, never pointed fingers, etc. They always expanded service to try to keep things moving, and they never put a crimp in our style. That's been great.

I guess the strain is starting to get to them, though. First there were the hints and links to free image hosting services, and now this change away from a "pool" of upload space shared amongst all users, moving to "personal" space that limits individual users.

By intent or by accident, this change is aimed directly at succession game players, who are the bandwidth hogs -- and I'm the king hog himself. There are 4MB of images in THIS ROUND ALONE of my report. Throw in the save, from the modern era on a Huge map game, and I've already used nearly one sixth of my allotted space, on one round of one SG.

The intent seems to be that players should erase "old" files when games are done, to make room for new files. That may be a solution for some, but it won't work for me. Part of the lure of investing as much effort as I do in to my reporting is that the reports should stand the test of time. Heck, RB1 has had tens of thousands of additional hits SINCE THE GAME ENDED, which seems to justify the position that some games continue to contribute to the community over time as a form of lore or legend. A minority of SGs rise to that level of devotion, with people who continue to buzz about them, pointing new arrivals back to read them over. Yet there has to be a direct link between the quality/quantity of the reporting and the number of views, the amount of interest during and after the game.

This may be a case of the SG community outgrowing its support. The more people playing these games, and the more pictures and files in play, the more strain on our gracious hosts. They were able to "hide" the pain this causes on their resources by letting us SG players "consume" the "unused" file space and bandwidth of the majority of users who frequent the rest of the site. Only the modders and the SGers are using heavy file space, and the modders are not crimped by the new solution. They need X amount of space, which goes out to a lot of users, while SGers constantly need more and more space, which goes out to fewer users, or so it appears to me.

If bandwidth usage is the problem, I would think the modders/downloads are the source of strain. But if storage space itself is the problem, then for sure the SG players are the worst of it.


My playstyle has always needed unlimited file usage. I'm spoiled by having my own web site, going on ten years now, hosted by a friend and benefactor with no practical limits placed on it. Whether it was my Diablo 2 spot reports on the entire career of my favorite characters (approaching a thousand screenshots in some cases), or my Descent level archives and Railroad Tycoon 2 map archives, or my Civ3 and Civ4 reports for Realms Beyond tournament events (often reaching three hundred shots, averaging 100k per image), I've never (not once) had to crimp my style for lack of space. I even keep extra smilies on my webspace and use them at will on any site, including this one, if a smilie I want to use is not available locally. (In fact, I did that in this round's report!)

This creative freedom has contributed various things to various communities, which would not be possible without the file-driving power.

The example I've set with this style has led others (Sulla, for instance) to follow suit. That's had a rippling effect. Sulla's Civ4 walkthrough crashed two different hosts with its traffic load (one reason I decided not to write the Civ4 walkthrough, even though it would have drawn more attention to me, is that I knew just how much load it would bear, and decided not to place that kind of burden on my benefactor/webhost.) Sulla got additional backing, in the form of his own benefactors, and ultimately kept his Walkthrough up and open -- no mean feat. This has spawned its own following of readers and lurkers who know little or nothing of me or RB but know Sulla's Walkthrough, which is kind of neat. Yet the farther this legacy spreads and the more people get in to SG playing and variants and whatnot, and pushing images in reports, the heavier the load gets for CFC.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Limiting file space per individual may hit me (as a CFC user) harder than anybody else on the board, but next in line are Sulla and Kylearan and all the SG players who illustrate heavily. Certainly THIS SG in particular, a huge map game going to 2050, is the worst possible case for file usage, needing six or eight screens to show the whole civ instead of one image, gobbling huge file space for the saves, etc. Still, I'm simply not going to erase the RB20 files to make room for my next SG. Nor am I going to lobby for further changes to the system (beyond describing my position in this post.)

Therefore, this would appear to be my final Civ succession game. The only other option open to me is to host my own pics (and move my SG events to Realms Beyond), which I can do, but not many others could follow suit. Almost everybody else operates at the mercy of our hosts, and if they require you to erase your old games to play new ones, it's up to you whether it is more important to preserve your records or to be able to play more games. Some games probably are forgettable and can be sacrificed, but I have not participated in very many of those.

I should think this will have a negative impact on SG play overall, since the most entertaining reports will have to be cut back in ambition (or at the very least, seek image hosting from elsewhere, which means dealing with ads and such, which has its own negative impact). From CFC's perspective, though, they have to pay their bills and the ad revenue keeps them going, while funding SG play is a drain on their resources. I don't blame them. It's their prerogative how much of an SG-induced file driving load they can sustain, and this is still a very high level. I had a good ride here -- really, a free ride, for a while -- and for those willing to operate within the new boundaries that have been set, the fun can go on, at a lower intensity level.


I still have two more rounds to play in this event. Enjoy it while it lasts.


Click Here! for the save.

Note that you need to rename the file extension, restoring the missing capital letters, for Civ4 to see the file if loading from within the game.


- Sirian

 

[pindicator]

lurker's comment:
A six page turnset report!

This has got to be the most lurker-friendly SG out there right now!
Keep up the good work!

 

[sooooo]

Lurker's comment: This is a great read! Nice to see so much peaceful expansion.

@Sirian: Isn't declaring this your last SG an overreaction? There are tons of free, unlimited bandwith imagehosts. For example, I use imageshack.us. They let you load as many pictures as you like of whatever size you like, do not place adverts on the pictures, unlimited bandwith and promise never to delete anything. I'm sure there's a solution to your image-hosting problem other than not playing SGs.

 

[Strauss]

EDIT: ehm, just make this a 'Got It'

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

There are tons of free, unlimited bandwith imagehosts. For example, I use imageshack.us.

That's no solution. Imageshack for example comes with very annoying popups (even overriding the Firefox popup blocker), one of which at one time prompted me to run an unknown .exe file! There are not many things that drive me away from a website faster than popups like this. I don't know about other so-called "free" imagehosts, but I do know that I have stopped clicking on picture thumbnails if the real image is stored at imageshack.


For me, storing the images on my own website is no solution either, as I have only limited space and bandwidth available for which I'm paying a monthly fee already. Report days at RB are pushing my site's bandwidth to its limits, and I have no desire to pay even more just to be able to play SGs. So while I fully understand CFC's reasons for the change, I don't think I will play any more SGs if the current system remains the way it is.

-Kylearan

 

[LKendter]

So while I fully understand CFC's reasons for the change, I don't think I will play any more SGs if the current system remains the way it is.

-Kylearan

Please complain in the below thread. I would, but since I am inactive in SGs, my voice means nothing. I doubt TF reads all the individual SG threads.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=183117

 

[LKendter]

I don't know about other so-called "free" imagehosts, but I do know that I have stopped clicking on picture thumbnails if the real image is stored at imageshack.

Well there is NO reason to link to the thumbnail. I used imageshack and always linked to the full picture.

 

[sooooo]

Exactly. Readers never have to go to imageshack and get the pop-up if you select the bottom option and place the full picture on the website. It's not a problem.

 

[BeefontheBone]

I've never had any real issues with ImageShack, other than the ignorable popups, and the thumbnails are easily avoided. I don't know what image-editing software you guys are using, but 100k per screen seems rather excessive - I get most 800*600 shots down below 50-75k with little quality loss (certainly not enough to impede the information contained in them) with a simple batch process in PhotoShop.

On a game-related note, there appears to be a source of Iron at New White dot which you could've mined for the Eiffel Tower bonus, unless those borders just expanded - or am I missing something?

 

[Strauss]

On a game-realted note, there appears to be a source of Iron at New White dot which you could've mined for the Eiffel Tower bonus, unless those borders just expanded - or am I missing something?

We can't mine any resources except for Coal

As for the image hosting, I like to use a lot of images in my reports as well, though of course not quite as much as, for example, Sirian. I have never had any problems with Imageshack, except I didn't know how to get full-size images on the forum. I now use Photobucket, it's very user-friendly and no pop-ups.

 

[Sirian]

I don't know about other so-called "free" imagehosts, but I do know that I have stopped clicking on picture thumbnails if the real image is stored at imageshack.

The appeal for playing succession games at CFC has always been tied in to their magnificent level of support for the venue. That's why Charis and I brought the RB crew here to play in Dec 2001 and why there has (until now) never been consideration amongst our community to play SGs anywhere else.

There have been several changes to the file upload system over the years, but this is the first one that has downgraded the level of support for SGs.

The push to get people to attach images to the forum at the end of posts came about two years ago. Last year, they added the push to get players to use Imageshack (voluntarily) instead of CFC. I ignored both of these options, as they were not acceptable to me.

Although they asked players to shift load to Imageshack, the option to rely on CFC was still there. It's still there now, but capped at 30MB per user. So, when my allotment is used up, I will stop adding new content. That choice appears to be within my prerogative.


No doubt there will be players willing to operate within the new, tighter boundaries, and that's cool. Perhaps it is better for CFC to cut loose those who are not willing to use external image hosting from their SG community, and settle in to a new normal.

However, it should be pointed out that if this policy were already in place a year ago, there never would have been a Cuban Isolationists game.

My images alone, from just that one game, use up two full account's worth of space. This including the fact that I crop and compress my images so that each one uses as little space as possible. Add in the saved games and we're well over 60MB. The event itself would be RULED OUT by this new policy, because quite simply it would not have been played.

A third of a million hits, along with all the ripple effects. No lore about Hydras, no 532, no public arguments between Sirian and Sulla. All of that would just be gone, or rather never would have happened in the first place.


Anyway, the policy is what it is. CFC has to do what's best for it overall.

Strauss has got the game, and this thread needs to move on. We still have 170 turns left to play.


- Sirian

 

[Strauss]

Strauss has got the game

And I've played 5 turns. Turns are taking quite long now so I'll finish it up tomorrow evening. A little teaser? Someone declared war on someone. Don't worry, I didn't do anything!

 

[stuge]

Lurking (hope I used the right colour)

Wow! Just wow.
I can't believe that I've missed this one so far. A great game, guys.
Tell me one thing, though. How do you manage to keep your economy afloat? 'Cos I don't think that I've ever seen so many cities in CIV.

 

[Strauss]

Lurking (hope I used the right colour)

Wow! Just wow.
I can't believe that I've missed this one so far. A great game, guys.
Tell me one thing, though. How do you manage to keep your economy afloat? 'Cos I don't think that I've ever seen so many cities in CIV.

@ lurking: it's easier to just do lurker's comment: hello: that is [ delurk] [ /delurk] without the spaces

@ economy: watermills, windmills, wonders, courthouses, Forbidden Palace and of course the Mahabodhi. Did I miss anything? Of course, our economy looks nice now, but it was a lot worse a couple of centuries ago when Feudalism would take 50 turns. Yes, we do have many cities (almost 60 I believe), but we are on a Huge map which might be misleading.