RBC10 - Cultured Communist Comrades

[T-hawk]

RBC10 - Cultured Communist Comrades

This is a game to explore the effectiveness of Communism in C3C, while trying for a national culture victory. This will let us see the building power of a far-flung communist empire on a reasonable and practical scale. For a military building path, it takes too long for the Communist power curve to really overtake that of a palace-centric government; by the time you get factories and power plants really cranking, the game will be over. But culture can be built earlier and with less expense, and cities can contribute immediately with their first few improvements (especially captured cities, via whipping.)

VARIANT RULES: We must follow the government sequence of Despotism-Feudalism-Communism.

ROSTER:

T-hawk
Bede
Justus II
Kylearan
6thGenTexan
Grimjack

I'm thinking Demigod difficulty, which I know will be tough and require some military conquest. Part of Communism's strength is its ability to quickly assimilate captured cities into productivity for the empire, especially via whipping, and I want that to be a part of this game. A late-game captured city takes forever to start being a viable military producer, but it can start contributing culture right away.

Civ is up for discussion. Babylon is out - too cliched and easy for 100k culture. I definitely want one of the two cultural traits, but whether religious or scientific is better is up for discussion. Religious shortens the two anarchy periods; the scientific free techs will help significantly towards getting both of the higher government techs.

EDIT: We'll be Russia. They're just too perfect for the theme, and I do indeed want to try out the new blitzing Cossacks.

Game settings:

Civ: Russia
Difficulty: Demigod
Map: Standard, Continents, 40% land
Climate: Cool, wet (Siberia )
AI Aggression: normal
Opponents: let's pick historical Russian opponents for flavor, and most of these are not culturally strong, too. America, Germany, Japan, Rome, Scandinavia, Mongols, ????

Rules: Standard, except that I'd like space and diplomatic victories disabled. We're here to play with communism, not get forced into desperate spaceship-killing capital captures.

Barbarians: Restless (Having some barbs forces us to be honest on military in the early game, rather than running farmer's gambit out to 10 cities and then panicking when someone declares war )

 

[Bede]

For sentimental reasons I would have to pick the Russians

 

[Dwip]

Yeah, count me in. Why not.

As to civ, I was pretty attached to the Byzantine Communists on the High Seas idea. Even on continents. <shrug>

[edit] Really, though, I'm happy with any of the C3C civs. New traits or no, the old civs have been sort of...done for me. [/edit]

 

[Charis]

Sci:
Sumerians, Byzantines, Greek, Korean, Russian, Ottoman,
Persians, Germans, Babylonians.
Relig:
Celtic, Spanish, Indians, Arabs, Egypt, Japanese, Babs.

Good choices: Byzantines, Greek, Germans, Russian, Ottomans, Persians
Too recent to be top picks: Koreans, Sumerians, Babs, Arabs

Demigod sounds right for 100K, would probably be too easy a diff for military win.

Charis

 

[Justus II]

My vote on civ would also be Russia. I know it is an "old" civ, but they had some changes, this would let us try the new Blitz for Cossacks, and a good chance to use expansionist with the delayed contacts etc. The cheaper libraries are always nice, just the right size for a double-whip

 

[JMB]

Sure, I'll play...

I vote for the Byzantines, Spain, or the Russians. I am a bit partial towards the new civs (I don't think I've played Spain before...), but don't have any strong preferences...

JMB

 

[Kylearan]

Damn! Different time zones strike again.

I'd be interested in this one as well - I was about to start a private game to try out communism, but an SG would be much more fun. I had planned to try it out in an archipelago setting, but going for culture sounds good as well - although most building will be done by the time communism becomes available, except in conquered cities.

If you'll have me, my vote would be Russia.

-Kylearan

 

[Aggie]

Looking at the amount of people that like to try this (I will obviously also be promoted to the 'lurker' bench for this one), is it an idea to start two games?

 

[T-hawk]

OK, it looks like we do have enough for two games. I think this game is going to be Russia by popular demand. Let's have a second game, on Emperor difficulty, as the Byzantines, on an archipelago map. Archi is harder for 100k culture, since it takes longer to expand out and the AI civs get longer to build their culture to stay within half of yours, so Emperor is good for that game. And if the 100k turns out to be difficult (if the AIs get a good enough cultural start that you have to invade to stop them), you can revert back to the original military plan.

Signed up for this game (having expressed interest in Russia) are:

T-hawk
Bede
Justus II
Kylearan
<open slot>
<open slot>

Signed up for the second game as Byzantium are:

Dwip
JMB
Aggie
Charis
Ridgelake (you haven't checked in yet)
<open slot>

Anyone in that group want to captain that team? Set game parameters, order the roster, start the map?

Kylearan wrote: although most building will be done by the time communism becomes available, except in conquered cities.

That's exactly the point. Most building in your core is always done by the time communism becomes available, but communism's power is the ability to get good production out of as many cities as you can fit on the map. Turning captured cities into military producers takes forever and takes a ton of buildings (factory, power plant, courthouse, aqueduct, hospital, something for happiness, something for border expansion, barracks), and by the time that happens, military from your core cities will have won the game anyway. But if going for 100k culture, more cities and culture always help and can start that immediately.

 

[Kylearan]

Kylearan (if you want the archipelago instead, say so)

I'm sick right now and out of boredom had started an archipelago communism demigod game myself, as Byzantines in fact. I got such a great start (3 iron, 2 horses, lush lands, early monopoly contacts...) that I changed my mind and decided to try to win this via space race without ever leaving despotism.

So here I'd rather take the chance to play an SG with you instead.

-Kylearan

 

[Charis]

I'll go with the Byzantines then
I've just been itching to give them a try. I'll let someone else
captain it and start, however. Stick with RBP10 (P???) for the Russian demi one, and go RBC11 for the Byzantine one.

Charis

 

[T-hawk]

RBP10 - oops. I changed it on the first post now, but that doesn't seem to have changed it on the index page. When I start the game in a few days, maybe I'll start a new thread with a proper RBC10 title.

I updated the roster list above with current info. Anyone else interested?

 

[Aggie]

I volunteer to be the 'captain' of RBC11.

But before I do, if agreed, I would like some pointers of the masters on how to play the first 20 turns of a 100K game. I don't want to blow it you know

I'd start with two curraghs for exploration and would go for Writing - Philosophy. I would try to buy CB from the AI asap and also would suggest to self research towards TOA and TGLib.

 

[Kylearan]

Neither am I a master nor am I on your team, Aggie, but I hope you don't mind if I give my 2 gold on this topic...

100k is all about early culture, so I would consider researching CB for yourself and build a temple ASAP so that the 1000-years-bonus will kick in earlier. It could very well happen that you won't find other AIs early or only those without CB, and they tend to ignore the tech. And those who know it will have a cultural head start on you if you won't research it for yourself, which will make the double-the-culture-of-your-best-rival requirement more difficult.

You may also consider researching pottery before heading for writing. A faster growing capital will lead to a faster settler production which in turn will mean more culture more early.

-Kylearan

 

[Aggie]

Those are good points Kyrealan. Writing would cost 50 turns anyway, so that's a long time without immediate benefit.

 

[T-hawk]

Actually, in my experience, 100k is all about expanding and getting many cities started on culture, not the capital. 20k is about early culture. But in a 100k game, eight or so turns spent building a (non-religious) temple means that all the rest of your cities get started eight turns later, which doesn't pay off.

I'd say to get Pottery and expand as usual in the very early game. Beeline research to Literature after that (via Philosophy if you want), and get the cheap scientific libraries going. Temples can wait until you get to trade for Ceremonial Burial. Your first few cities will be busy building more settlers and workers for expansion.

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

Could it be possible for you to add me onto one of your rosters?

 

[Justus II]

I would have to echo T-Hawk here, I used to focus on early culture for the 1000-year bonus, but getting 12 temples whipped in 1000BC beats 3-4 completed by 2000BC. Early expansion is as important, if not more so, in 100K Culture. A few early wonders are nice, and certainly move the culture buildings up in the build order a bit, but it is still easier to have a LOT of cities building decent culture, than a few mega-culture cities.

Same lesson applies to early warfare, I used to expand peacefully, focusing on culture, but taking out a rival or three for territory allows more cities to build the more 'culture-efficient' buildings, especially with the pop-rushing we will be doing.

(These are just a few lessons I learned the hard way!).

 

[6thGenTexan]

I would like one of the open slots. Either game will be fine.

 

[Grimjack]

I would like to join the Russian game.
Grimjack