RBD SG3 - The Builders

[Charis]

Wow! I didn't need a donut for breakfast, that report was enough sustenance.

I'm up next if I have the order correct:

Sirian
Charis
Carbon
Schnarrd

Some questions and comments for the loquacious...

The first came when the Roman archer slipped past us, when Charis opted to found at Atlanta instead of Buffalo. That archer is why the Romans got to tech parity.

Ponders.... yes, that's correct. (To soothe, I remind self that they would get parity almost instantly whenever they happened to contact other civs, which is a certainty once they get their first ship going down south. Unless of course the archer got them map making...)

I'm seeing now, in other games, that denying others is as important (or more) than choosing "prime" locations. (eg fending off hordes of indian settlers in rbd5), and sealing a border to a landlocked backward civ is "up there" in priority. As I recall, my fear was that the Romans would declare war if I told them to "get out" -- I plan to replay that turn and see I was ready to let them walk 100 miles and meet other people if it meant we could play an expansion and building game instead of yet another early-despot-fight-your-neighbor game. *HAD* we gone to war with Rome, we would have won, and had all North, but India would have expanded almost up to Philly unchecked. Would be a very different game. Chicken? Perhaps ;p Thanks for pointing that out as the "source" of Rome catching up. Such hundred-year-later cause-and-effect post-analyses are very good. ("Ah!! That's why...")

I think your "Wonder" plan will help us prevent having to write a "Oh, you do realize we lost Sistine because..." post many years from now. Would you please clarify the details behind this thinking:

On the inherited turn, I established our last embassy, with the Greeks, and saw that they were just starting on the Great Wall. With just Currency to go until the Middle Ages, I realized that we had better build the Great Wall ourselves, or else the cascade is going to cost us Sistine Chapel. ... ... The Lighthouse is going to be built by the French. No one else is even attempting it. It's good that the French are building it in a strong city, and not some colony which would allow endless cascade effect to linger for 1000 years, and every civ on the map to start on it and drag it on and on. Halting the cascade was the other reason I suggested Atlanta when I did.

I know about the "Cascade" and can see some, but maybe the coffee isn't kicking in yet. How do you know when/how a cascade will end? Here, why the need for the Great Wall?

Good explanation on the Currency-Mono-Theology maneuver!

I'll bet a dollar to a donut that there's either rubber or coal over there, as they passed plenty of good jungle before landing where they did. The AI is KNOWN to beeline right to future sites of resources. (Ain't that just too convenient? Heh).

Didn't know that... that explains alot, why for example a disproportionate number of jungle resources I mystically find UNDER foreign cities. Nice of them to locate that for us ;p Syracuse is ours one day, with certainty. Hmm... I wonder if New Bombay is future home to resource too.

Baltimore founded! Yes! VICTORY! This has to be one of my greatest Civ3 accomplishments ever. (I kid you not). I felt like I'd been put through a torturous eye-popping brain-fuzing chess problem.

Woo, no doubt! I expected that site to be unattainable or very tricky to get. I'll have to replay first few years to see. I had a taste of this in rbd5, where I maneuvered India off Marseilles's future home, and was just thrilled to see their ship finally "turn south." Same principles but Baltimore looks even harder.

> Denver has some overlap, but that's the best I could do.
Definitely a needed city in that spot. Did I mention how nice of a "hub" our FP site is now?!

> Not really sorry I ended when I did, I definitely would have flubbed up Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Another excellent "Sleepy Gambit" ??

I'll play the game this eve... looking forward to it.
Charis

PS Hopefully I'll be not

 

[Zed-F]

Well, in an OCC game, I definately kept the GL until I got Education from it, and I also had the Hanging Gardens obsolete when *I* researched Steam Power, and I was not the tech leader at the time. It's theoretically possible that I might have researched it first, since I didn't check my opponents to see if they already had it, but I sincerely doubt it, as I had 2 scientific civs with dozens of cities going up against my one city for beakers, and they already got Nationalism for free and had shown themselves to be more than capable of out-researching me on previous techs.

In previous Civ games the tech leader spoiled the wonders, as you suggest. I'm not at all certain that that's how it works this time around, nor am I certain that this is necessarily a bad thing. So you can milk wonders longer if you choose -- what are you giving up in exchange? You restrict your own development by limiting your research options to avoid paths that will obsolete your wonder(s), and this may cause you to fall behind in the tech/production race relative to where you might have been with unrestricted research options. Not research Steam Power so you can hang on to the Hanging Gardens a little longer? I don't think so...

The only "game breaking" wonder that you generally really care when it goes obsolete is the GL, as you usually have alternatives by the time the others expire, and the GL (a) expires on its own anyway due to AI researching Education so you can't really avoid it, (b) you're giving up Universities and Banks, and access to Democracy plus a whole whack of other wonders if you delay researching Education, and (c) if you have the tech lead what do you need the GL for anyway? The only other one that springs to mind as valuable beyond the Middle Ages is the Colossus, and it expires near the end of the Industrial Age anyway, so you can't really delay it much.

I'll see if I can do another test and confirm that wonders expire when you research the relevant tech in Civ3, not when anybody researches it.

 

[Sirian]

Zed: I look forward to your test results. If I'm mistaken about the way wonders go obsolete, I'll be happy to have that corrected. I can't recall any games I've played where I was both behind significantly in tech AND had ancient wonders that could go obsolete before I could reach the fore in the tech race. If I was that far behind, I couldn't get the wonders anyway. If I had the resources to get a wonder, I wouldn't be that far behind. Chicken and egg deal.

As for the plan I laid out, though, in this case it wouldn't matter. Our objective is scoring, and so we want to secure the happiness wonders ASAP, which means beelining to Music Theory. Even if the GL doesn't go obsolete, the fact of the lowered costs once other civs have the tech means they all stay in a clump anyway, just that France saves a little cash.

Charis: I'll answer your many questions here in a bit.

- Sirian

 

[Schnarrd]

That's a lot of posting in what? Less than 12 hours?

Hmm. Interesting (and quite long!) post by Sirian. I'd never paid a whole lot of attention to the wonder cascade thing, but then I'm usually not in the position to get more than one ancient wonder in my Monarch games (by the time I'm out of the ancient age, I'm usually rolling over my enemies with huge stacks of knights, so no need for any wonders besides Sun Tzu ).

I think part of the reason that we were so slow building cities in the south was that I concentrated way too much on infrastructure my turn (no new settlers built, one started). I might be totally off base in saying that, but then again I might not, as expansion after the initial land grab tends to be a problem for me. That's probably why most of my games include early warfare - I'm out-expanded early and need more space.

For all that, looks like it all worked out (great job, Sirian, on the blockade tactics - with our weak military, I'm quite surprised no one has declared war, or at least demanded tribute).

 

[Sirian]

Sometimes infrastructure can be the most important. Witness my turn in the Emperor game, in which I didn't build a single unit other than a settler. There has to be balance to win, at least to some degree, just that sometimes it's not best to keep perfect balance as you go, but to gambit toward some extreme for a while and rebalance later. Well, maybe your turn was the "later" in that regard, Schnarrd.

OK, on now to the bevy of quail (aka, Charis Questions).

(To soothe, I remind self that they would get parity almost instantly whenever they happened to contact other civs, which is a certainty once they get their first ship going down south. Unless of course the archer got them map making...)

To unsoothe, I remind that I brokered contact to the Russians for a tech and their World Map, probably worth 200ish gold, and found them on the doorstep of Japan. Another one to three turns delay would have meant us losing that trade benefit, and Japan getting it. Such a move is not a make or break, ever, but a collection of such moves can be important over time. Who's to say what might have been, but certainly even after the archer was past us, we could track the turns (at one move apiece) to guess how soon contact could be made, and then be sure to jump in there ahead. I know that's subtle, and it might be mishandled trying to stretch out the delay, but it could have been done.

How much we could have gotten is questionable, since most of the civs are riding fairly close to broke most of the time. Now THAT, you can use for soothing purposes.

I know about the "Cascade" and can see some, but maybe the coffee isn't kicking in yet. How do you know when/how a cascade will end? Here, why the need for the Great Wall?

Cascade is the rollover effect when the collective breakthrough speed outachieves the collective wonder-building speed, such that new techs with new wonders come available while earlier ones are still under construction by all. The AI's never prebuild with placeholders, but they get the same effect with cascade, as they all "prebuild" the Pyramids, one of them gets it, then they roll to others, etc. The worst cascade can come in the middle ages and eat every wonder right up to Newton/Smith. Unless you the player take steps to break the chain.

Sometimes pace of research means the Great Wall is built before middle ages arrive, sometimes not. By our civ breaking through early on the Monarchy line, and with all the goody hut tech we found (and others may have found), the ancient tech just went by really quickly here, and the cascade would have gone on forever if we hadn't set to building so many of the ancient wonders. That's easier to do in larger maps, though. Smaller maps, tech comes even faster, and there are fewer cities and less land, and less space between rivals, less safety, and we DID benefit somewhat from no barbarians, too.

I could see at the start of my turn that the middle ages would be reached SOON, yet only one civ on the Great Wall and they just started. That's a landlocked wonder any city can build. If we didn't grab it NOW, and in a hurry, it would not yet be built when Feusalism came online, and every civ on the planet would cascade to the 600 shield SunTzu and we'd lose control.

The Great Library, ironically, is the best way (especially on large maps) to SLOW the pace of research, since you can sit on zero tech, let the AI's research breakthroughs at first-civ cost, which takes them longer, and broker it to others at second-civ cost, which costs them more (or if no one can afford that, then more time spent while another researches same tech at second-civ cost). With all that time passing, wonders get built, cascade ends. Without prebuilding available to the AI's, advantage then conveys back to the player even though he needs more shields on Monarch+ for the same wonder. Then even once they all do start on SunTzu, they are behind, and if the player can build one or more wonders further up the tree before AI's get there, the cascade that might happen doesn't, as someone builds SunTzu, someone else gets Leo and Sistine, then it breaks again, leaving the player in control, especially if they have moved into the tech lead.

Now on Deity its another story entirely, but I haven't played much of that yet. (I have tried a bit, just to "see" -- pretty rough stuff).

Since the pace of research is often out of the hands of the player, the thing he can better control is going for more of the wonders. Make sure they get built by somebody before the tech rolls on. This can mean breaking cascade from the very outset by going for the Pyramids, or it can mean taking control at Great Wall/Gardens, which is less total shields and split among two cities compared to the mideival wonders at 600 per.

On Monarch, I have fairly well mastered this. On Emperor, the AI's are stronger, research goes faster for them and its tougher to break in. I DID do it in my very first Emperor game (still need to write that report) but post patch I am having a harder time getting into the tech lead earlyish. A lot depends on the map, too. Pangaea, or pangaea-ish maps of other sorts, puts the AIs in contact with one another, which GREATLY speeds the total research rate. Maps where contact is delayed into the middle ages for some civs see a slower rate of progress (look at Infantry game).

Besides, the Great Wall is barely more expensive than a Cathedral, DOES help with military matters in a scattered game of this sort (especially without horses, arrgh), and ancient wonders are often the backbone of the AI culture push. Depriving them invariably puts the player way ahead in culture, which matters even in a game where culture isn't a victory condition. It affects flips, AI attitudes toward the player, and more. (Might be interesting to try a low-culture or no-culture variant someday).

Walls generally do suck, but like artillery, I've found situations where they can be of great benefit (considering their cost is low and no maintenance). The AI civs DO think twice about attacking the civ who owns the Great Wall. It invariably means more losses, until the wall has been made obsolete.

It may even be possible for us to get not only Sistine and Bach, but also either Sun Tzu or Leo, and guess where: AT CHICAGO. Once the FP comes online, that place is going to be a powerhouse, and we could do any number of things with it. One option might be more wonders, while surrounding cities do the military and expansion tasks, and we postpone infrastructure a bit. The land, the cattle, hills, grass, flood plains, and on a river with a luxury... I spotted that as a great FP site the moment I laid eyes on it.


- Sirian

 

[Charis]

[This was emailed to Carbon before posting, when forums down...]


The people were wild with expansionist frenzy, and the masses had demanded
the building of a great "forbidden palace" in Chicago. The right wing party
came to power and Deacon Charis III ruled the nation. He had a nightmare in
which he saw Pittsburgh dissolve and New Bombay in its spot, and he was
thankful that Acolyte Yan had the wisdom to found Pittsburgh and that the
people responded with a call for a temple immediately. He notes that the
great nation of America had expanded and expanded well. Deacon sought to
finish the job, bring home several wonders, and overall... not screw up ;p

50 BC (0) - Deacon was pleased as punch that we were studying theology! He
was also glad to see a temple in place or in production in every last city!
The worker distribution within cities was checked and found impeccable.
Deacon thought he could retire, but his party reminded him to investigate
this so-called "Forbidden" Palace...

30 BC (1) - Deacon is very displeased at the Romans waltzing through the
Promised land, and he sends a prophet to tell them of his displeasure
(emboldened in part by admonitions to "take no guff" from the Romans)
Hanging Gardens finish, and Washington starts (what else) a Cathedral.
NY turns to a settler, as does Philly and St.Louis. San Fran finished
courthouse and starts a Barracks (a strong desire for all of Deacon's
frontline cities). Miami, finishing its Rax, starts a Swordsman. Buffalo
considers staying on a culture drive after its temple with a library, but
goes to slip in a settler first. The Hanging Gardens let us cut back luxury
a notch (and science up one, for a turn less.)

Starting FIVE Settlers on your first turn Deacon? I thought our expansion
drive was over. "No!! We must not let people who bask in darkness go
without the benefit of an American Temple at their doorstep! Go, go go!"
Indians and Japan start a Great Wall campaign, and the Russians the Colossus
(which is due in Atlanta at end of our reign.) With that he rushes the
Seattle settler, and a Swordsman in Houston.

What is your city strat, anyway, Deacon? All he would mumble was something
like "Green, Yellow, White, Red", which makes no sense. He also said
something like "Washington needs fresh fish!"

"The Romans are IN AWE of our culture." Deacon presses this advantage
while they are polite to, oh so politely, tell them to GET THEIR DANG
SETTLERS OUT OF OUR LAND OR FACE THE WRATH OF THE AGENTS OF THE ALMIGHTY,
if they so please. Caesar acknoledges his generals sometimes get out of
hand and he is simply delighted to withdraw them back to Hispalis.
Woo! They'll come back, but this time, not just the scout, but some friends
will block progress, until the colored dot settlers are in position to beat em!
I turn around and give him 5gp as a "no hard feelings" offering.

10 BC (2) - Hmmm... the settlers pull BACK, and do not return. Heading for
ships perhaps? Or tag teaming with mil units??? The people cheer this bold
move and plant lovely bushes in the palace. Washington lends St.Louis a
flood plain square since it's now size 12. Deacon decides the temple
in Pittsburgh is fitting, as the city is a divine gift, and he rushes it.

Noting success at this by other RBD players, Charis notes we're selling
no ROP's for our HUGE territory, and seeks out the far far away English,
Russians, Greek and Japanese. He bleeds Elizabeth utterly dry. Catherine
is stark raving mad, thinking we should pay HER top dollar for this
privelege. Just to see what she wants for republic, I ask, and she thinks
World Map, 650 gold *and* 26gpt is fair. Be careful, this girl is a lunatic,
even if impressed with our culture. Alex coughs up 2/3 of his small treasury,
and Gawa is somewhat deluded, not wishing to pay anything for RoP.

The millenium ends with the entire world at peace!!!

10 AD (3) - A quiet mid-turn, and Rome pulls it settler "out" of the "brown
zone" between us. (Guess they REALLY don't want it) Pittsburgh which will
be small for a whlie, starts walls.

30 AD (4) - NY finishes settler and starts Cathedral, as the Deacon considers
them unhappy folks. Atlanta cries out for a aqueduct, but is urged to
stick with Colossus just a few more turns.

50 AD (5) - Boston completes the Great Wall, and the unhappy people demand a
Cathedral. The Deacon of course hears their plea! Buffalo expands borders,
and the Green Dot settler arrives to found "Deacon Beacon" - a shining
light to the people of Syracuse! San Franciso starts a Swordsman,
although Cathedral, Harbor, and Great Lighthouse were considered. Miami
sticks with plan to be the Northern Barracks and starts another Spearman.
St. Louis finishes a Settler, and we note that much worker activity is
needed down South... so they start a worker.

70 AD (6) - Philly and Buffalo also start worker after their settler.
Pittsburgh (the expensive rushed temple) expands boundaries to now
include the cattle!

90 AD (7) - Nice and quiet turn, and the people meditate, thereby...

110 AD (8) - ... learning the joyful bliss of theology! Of course, the
Deacon knows that mind and spirit must be one, and encourages Education
to help the people! Deacon's settler reaches the fishing village near
Washington, to provide them with fresh fish daily. The name of the
new city is understood by no one, but there is a prophecy that great
machines will one day come in and out of the city... Dulles International.

Boston is unhappy, but making an entertainer does not increase the time
to build the cathedral, so luxury rate is maintained at 10%.

The Deacon has a vision... rather than 'merely' complete a cathedral
in Washington, he will embark on a wonderous project that will increase
the effectivenss of cathedrals thoughtout the nation, and encourage
the people to greater faith and happiness. Codenamed "Sistine", it is
due to arrive in a mere 22 turns!

Suddenly, and without reason, the people of New Orleans have a great
desire to plant a church in the nearby hills to the south. They shift
to Settler and rush him at a nominal cost.

130 AD (9) - "THAT'S IT!!!! You've left us bare, bare, bare! I can't
believe no one has just waltzed in to your unprotected cities! You
have one more season then we're ousting you from power!" Deacon Charis
notes that alas, this is true. He holds his culture in such high regard,
and thinks his neighbors do also, that he has forsaken a military
presence in the South (up North, the streetsmart people know better.)

Wow! Baltimore is size 4 already? That irrigated wheat is rockin' ;p
Deacon founds Cincinnati at yellow dot, and Dallas at white dot right
on New Bombay's city gate.

150 AD (10) - Deacon Charis surplussed for one turn for some extra gold for
some final maneuvers. A catapult and spearman appear and are repeated.
He founds "Laguardia" on red dot below Buffalo, East of New York, again
muttering something about machines with wings... A swarm of generals
surround Deacons office and complain about lack of security, but before
they do, a few final orders are carried out. Temple are rushed to completion
in Deacon Beacon and Dallas, our "pressure" cities, and Baltimore, so it
can start becoming a troop producer. Philly and rush their Spearmen. This
leaves a healthy 250 gold in the coffers. His last round of diplomacy
French spices for American wine (what a hoot) for only 20 gold. We confirm
everyone is still polite, and give each a shiny American Silver dollar as
a warm token of friendship!

As he's carried out of office he shouts "I've brought us to the very
brink of a Golden Age!!"

Coming up...
- Settler just arrived in white dot above New Bombay, ready to found.
- Colossus will finish at Atlanta next turn. This will trigger our Golden
Age since it's expansion-happy and the Pyramids were industrious-happy.
(Alas, Great Lighthouse has not been build, some may proceed there.)
- Our evangelist settler in the southwest will arrive at a forest, but
should go one more step onto the other forest square to be right next
to the cattle and to apply maximum pressure. Both squares are on the
coast. His worker friend is there to connect a road.
- There's now just one settler still in production, at Seattle. He
can be kept in reserve, used to add to a city like Pittsburgh, or
he can found a city between Detroit and New Delhi, or... board a boat
(made in Buffalo) and hop aboard for new lands.
- With the power of our Golden Age working for us, if we don't get
ambushed in first half of next turn, we can now consolidate in a mighty
way, and still crank on upcoming uberwonders. This reign was utterly
peaceful and all the foreign leaders have smiles.

Charis

 

[Zed-F]

Incidentally, I repeated my test in my OCC game, this time researching towards Hospital rather than Steam Power, and checking the AI scientific civs every so often, and guess what? One of them had Steam Power to trade, and I had not received any message about my Hanging Gardens going obsolete. So there you go... Wonders go obsolete when you get the relevant tech, not when it's first researched by any player.

 

[Schnarrd]

As much as I like cathedrals, I'm starting to get really nervous about our lack of military in the south. This has been repeated by various other people and I know we already have at least one city pumping out spearmen, but I think that instead of our large cities building cathedrals (particularly Washington, for as Sirian said before, Washington produces 10 shields per turn, which yields perfect efficiency when building spearmen), they should be building military. I'm still rather amazed we haven't gotten into any wars yet, and some of our southern cities aren't defended at all. Might help with unrest down there, too.

 

[Sirian]

The Cathedral in Boston could be switched to Palace placeholder for the next wonder. New York and Philly not cranking troops? Charis put the veto stamp to that plan.

The AI's are still busy expanding, just like us, and we do have some swords on hand. We should get defense into each city, and several units into any city with a luxury or resource within its 21 tile radius, but otherwise, we're OK for the moment. Anybody besides India or France declaring war would take simply ages to reach us in the south, and the north is set up to fend for itself pretty well by now. Rome has shown their lack of enthusiasm for attacking us. The Great Wall also helps deter. Some.

Still, I think Charis can be a bit free with spending the treasury, this ain't the first time he's spent it into bankruptcy on his turn. Just about every turn I took in RBD1, in fact, where I played after him, I came in looking at big RED numbers on the balance sheet.

Rushing the temples will probably pay off, though. I would have rushed some myself, except I wasn't SURE the cities were secure, and I'd hate like mad to rush and then be attacked and lose the investment. If the next leader goes light on infrastructure and heavy on barracks and military recruiting, we should reach a secure position before too long. Charis has filled in all the gaps in our land, or all but one, and it's time now to consolidate.

Russia, I think, has been the most uppity. I'm kind of surprised Cathy hasn't threatened us yet. Maybe some of the trades we have done with her have staved her off.

While I believe we must dedicate Boston and DC to wonders, we really DO need more military soon, so I agree with Schnarrd on the idea of bending most of the other inner cities to troops for a while. Carbon, good luck, and may your reign be peaceful.


- Sirian

 

[Carbon_Copy]

I played 10 turns of LK8 once I got back from work...ugh, it took forever (mostly assigning workers), and the writeup took almost as long. No chance for a turn tonight, neither this one or Infantry. I CAN play tomorrow afternoon after 5:00 pm or so, no work then, but that's my next earliest opportunity. If whoever comes after me can play a turn before then, I'll be willing to swap order for this round (pending approval from above).

 

[Sirian]

Schnarrd, if you're available, go ahead and take your turn now if you like. (You could implement your desire to fill the ranks of our military, and keep us all safe).

Whichever of you posts "got it, playing now" first is going next. That sound good to everybody? Excellent.

- Sirian

 

[Schnarrd]

Will post sometime this afternoon. Looking forward to pumping out spearmen.

 

[Schnarrd]

After the expansionistic and infrastructural madness of the former deacon, Charis, the people demanded a ruler who would look after the military well-being of America. Some demanded that the sons of Theodore "C" Roosevelt ascend the throne, while others shouted that the sons of Sirian would do a better job. But with the building of the Colossus and the ensuing age of great production and trade, a new movement took hold; a movement that demanded that a ruler fit to rule America during this great "golden age" be installed as monarch. They said that signs and prophecies foretold that someone with golden skin would be found in the fields of San Francisco, and that that person was the one to lead America to greatness. And lo and behold! One with golden skin was found in the fields of San Francisco ("Blasphemy!" some cried, but when asked to explain themselves, they weren't sure what they were talking about). The people of America were so impressed with the fulfillment of this prophecy that they installed the individual into office at once. And so the reign of Schnarrd the Golden began.

The beginning of Schnarrd's reign was marked by a great increase of men trained in the use of the spear. Nearly all of the interior of America was occupied with the task of training these men, with new divisions of spearmen being turned out every day. Some said that Schnarrd wanted to be sure that every city was defended with a division of spearmen. Other cities were occupied with the building of libraries and marketplaces to take advantage of the increased trade. In fact, because of all the libraries built under Schnarrd, the age of education began, resulting in the obselescence of the piddly little French library thing. Something called "Music Theory" was researched, and scholars believe that the research will be done in six turns. Schnarrd also ensured that despite all the money going into research efforts, the people would be happy through a trade for French furs for 80 cart-fulls of gold and American silks.

Towards the end of Schnarrd's reign, rumors started to abound that Schnarrd was not a real ruler, but simply a golden calf. None was able to substantiate these rumors as no one actually saw Schnarrd, but they still gathered steam until Schnarrd was forced to resign under the onslaught. After Schnarrd's resignation, some cried, "Because of our blasphemy, we will be unable to reach the Holy Land for forty years!" Yeah, sure. Whatever that means.

 

[Schnarrd]

Well, a lot happened during my reign. Unfortunately, I don't have the exact turns that everything happened in because I got lost while recording the turn sequence. Anyway, here are the most important points of my reign not covered above:

1. I forgot to switch to the palace in Boston (Boston ended up building spearmen, since they came out every turn). The cathedral being built there can be switched to a palace.

2. About halfway through my turn, I noticed that all the scientific civ's (France, Russia, and Greece) had monotheism as their free technology for the era. I therefore brokered monotheism for all I could get from the other civ's. From India I got all their gold, the Republic, and 7 gold per turn. From France, all their gold + 9 per turn. From Japan I got pennies plus 2 per turn. Edit: Forgot about the Romans! From them I got all their gold + 9 per turn.

3. The French completed the Lighthouse, and, towards the end of my reign, started Sun Tzu.

4. Saint Louis is doing the Size Seven gambit since it gets 10 shields per turn, so the next leader would be well advised to leave its production alone, since even when we have enough workers to make terrain improvements, the excess workers can be added to other cities' populations.

5. There is a settler in Baltimore that I wasn't sure what to do with.

6. Since we're 3 or 4 turns away from building Sistine, we might want to broker theology to everybody while it's still valuable. We can get Fuedalism and Sun Tzu from the French (yeah, they started Sun Tzu sooner than us, but with our massive golden age production rates, I still think we can beat them) and Construction from the Russians. I did not broker it myself, however, since I thought it was a decision best left to the group.

Good luck, Carbon Copy.

 

[Carbon_Copy]

When the Golden Schnarrd-cow-person-thing resigned from office, emphatically avowing that he was "not a crook" (though, strangely, nobody had ever accused him of being one), genealogists and scholars pored over dank scrolls on the lineage of American nobility, trying to find the next rightful American heir. They never found him, instead they just pulled some gullible kid off the street, forged some documents and Gerald Carbon was tossed rather roughly onto the American throne and told to stay there and keep quiet.

As a ruler, King Carbon wasn't required to expend a lot of mental effort in running the state, most of his actions were simply to enact plans already made by his predecessors, and the rest were random civic improvements in various cities (a courthouse here, a marketplace there, a cathedral in the other one, etc).

The one important decision he was allowed by his advisors was what to do with the settler milling around Baltimore. It was obviously made for a purpose, but that purpose is now forgotten. Carbon looked over the old maps made by the first king, Theodore C. Roosevelt, and noticed that there had been no town founded on a dot lovingly drawn by King Roosevelt on one of his speculative maps. And there he sent that settling party, founding cleveland at the midpoint of his reign.

As he wasn't allowed outside, no new diplomacies were enacted during his reign, until his final days, when he managed to smuggle a Japanese diplomat past the guards and worked out a deal for the one of the many ivory sources present in southern America, earning a harsh talking-to from his counselors.

Here are the details of his 100 year reign:

0.) 300 AD
-City micromanagement: Denver and Detroit swapped some tiles so they both could grow. Boston changed to palace, swaps a flood plain for a mined hill, shaving 2 turns off the palace. Gave Harper's Ferry the irrigated wheat from New York, it grows 7 turns sooner.

1.) 310
-Indians request map swap, I deny.
-San Francisco finishes market, starts cathedral

2.) 320
-Seattle finishes barracks, starts making swordsmen

3.) 330
-Sistine Chapel completed in Washington, starts a spearman to fortify in its walls before starting with the buildings again.
-Houston finishes Library, starts courthouse
-Music Theory finished, Feudalism started
-Boston switches to JS Bach, 12 turns away

4.) 340
-Washington finishes spear, starts marketplace.

5.) 350
-Cleveland founded on the last dot of Theodore C. Roosevelt's map.

6.) 360
-Atlanta finishes market, starts courthouse, loves the President.

7.) 370
-Washington finishes marketplace, starts cathedral
-Detroit finishes its temple, starts Courthouse
-Harper's ferry finishes barracks, starts aqueduct.
-Dulles finishes temple, starts Harbor
-Feudalism discovered, Banking next
-Washington's cathedral switched to Sun Tzu

8.) 380
-Philly finishes marketplace, starts pikeman
-Seattle finishes swordsman, starts pikeman
-St. Louis finishes its eigth worker of my turn, people expand my palace.
-I notice that Pittsburg (a 1g/1s town) is building a library. I change it to a courthouse. Since courthouses cost the same as libraries, the next ruler has plenty of time to change the production back to the library if the situation improves once chicago finishes its forbidden palace.

9.) 390
-Miami finishes marketplace, it loves the prez, starts aqueduct.
-Indian settler pair seen walking on the mountains near the gap between New Orleans and Baltimore. I rush New Orlean's temple.
-India and Japan start Sun Tzu

10.) 400
-Indian settler pair turns back to India
-NY finishes cathedral, starts pike
-Houston finishes courthouse, starts marketplace
-New Orleans finishes its temple, starts aqueduct, palace expands again.
-Greeks start Sun Tzu
-I deal one of our ivories to Japan for their treasury (25g) + 9g/turn

Final notes:
-St. Louis built a worker every turn of my reign. I've sent most of them south, mostly on jungle duty. We still could use more, so just keep at it.
-Russia is moving a galley along our shores. they don't seem to be up to anything besides exploration.
-Detroit's borders will expand on the next turn, move city laborers around so it can pick up the irrigated elephant and continue to grow.
-Boston and Washington could switch wonders. Sun Tzu and JS Bach apparently have the same shield cost, so Sun Tzu could be built 10 turns earlier and Bach 10 turns later. I leave this up to the next ruler to decide, but I probably would switch, as most of the world is currently building Sun Tzu but don't have Theology yet.
-We are still in a Golden Age, but we probably will run out sometime soon.

 

[Zed-F]

Heh, I predict you guys have won already. All you have to do is keep building and hold on to what you've got (i.e. don't neglect military.) There ain't gonna be much of a struggle here unless you screw up or do something to make it more "interesting."

 

[Sirian]

Well, this wasn't necessarily intended to be an exercise in "seat of the pants" victory. Just a chance to build a lot of cities and make them do things, and kind of, um, build a lot of cities and make them do stuff, plus building many many cities and filling them with activity. Oh yeah, and maybe get into some late-era modern situations, like dealing with nukes and trying out some of those "game-never-lasts-that-long" techs and units.

On the other hand, I do have something a little more iffy in mind, and am about to start RBD6. Jump in, Zed, if you are interested.

- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

The Golden Age was over before my turn began. It just took our analysts a while to recognize the fact. This pushed back the finish dates on everything, from tech to wonders to FP to you name it, and disrupted the smooth worker factory at St. Louis.

Inherited Turn: swapped wonders as Carbon suggested. Unable to do much else until the analysts got their act together and I could see the real production in our cities. (Why the game has to lie to us about that for a turn, I'm not quite sure).

410AD: Syracuse joins the empire. Missionaries from Deacon Beacon hailed as heroes for their persistent proselytizing. All hail the great American culture! St. Louis set to max food (growing every other turn, should be size 10 or 11 by the end of my reign).

420AD: workers sorted out. Next priorities: connect roads in the southwest and bring irrigation to parched cities. Increase mining around New Orleans, in preparation for FP completion. Swap everybody in the south who was on courthouse to something else, as the FP's proximity will diminish courthouse priority in most nearby locations. San Fran worker sent to prepare road and irrigation for future site of Kansas City. DC worker set to irrigating Dulles desert. Bulk of workforce set to clear jungles around Buffalo, Laguardia, Philly and Syracuse. Buffalo set to train pikes, New York cranking some catapults.

430AD: Joan takes her luxuries and goes home. Well fooey on her, the stuck up zealot. We're not going to pay that exorbitant stamp tax!

440AD: Banking. Next up, Printing Press! (What is American Culture without the printing press! We simply MUST blab at one another endlessly, with "news", opinions, and "tabloids". How this translates into the world's most dominant culture, I'm not quite sure. Or maybe we're just the most verbose.

450AD: Forbidden Palace! (For some reason, it's called "Caesar's Palace", even though it's nowhere near Rome. Americans are a strange breed, I tell ya).

460AD: Americans establish themselves as the masters of the Art of War. "National Guard" barracks pop up all around the land overnight, offering state of the art training "in just one weekend a month and two weeks a year". Defense budget increased to retrain a number of spear units with the pike. International opinion was heard to grumble and gripe, and America has been labelled as "imperialists" for taking control of Syracuse and starting an arms race with all those high tech pike doo-hickeys, and barracks full of saber-rattling soldiers.

470AD: Kansas City founded. American border defenses boosted everywhere but Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. (The, um, Secretary of Defense is requesting additional units for these locations, and the King has promised "to look into it", but nothing much happened.

480AD: traded luxuries to Rome for gpt, which made them happy.

490AD: traded luxuries to India for gpt. Renegotiated with Joan, now trading her two luxuries for one plus 10gpt. Tried to get tech but we needed at least ONE of her luxuries and she was asking too much.

500AD: Printing Press discovered! AMERICANS BLAB AND BLAB AND BLAB AND BLAB, and now yearn for representative government. Entire nation bent to hammering out a new democratic Constitution (running at 100% science, with minor budget deficit thanks to recent trades). NO MORE TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! Please give us... the US Congress! (We may later regret this yearning, but there you have it).

500AD, The Sequel: Phoenix founded in dusty southeast. Citizens beg for irrigation subsidies from Royal Government. Buffalo organized as new worker training center (may need regular attention, but should pump a worker each turn, conveniently ready to start in on jungle work). LA finished temple, starts walls. One surplus settler moves into Baltimore region. Save him for use during/after a war, whether ours or someone else's, to be ready to grab more land the moment an opening appears (ala Jaffa's Horsie Gambit in RBD1).


The State of the Union: the nation is secure and at peace. A few spots remain thin, and overall it would be a good idea to continue training new units here or there. We are light on infrastructure, and every city could stand to build a number of buildings, but Rome wasn't built in a day. The sooner we get to Democracy, the sooner we reduce corruption even further, increase revenues, and speed workers -- I urge 100% science and revolution asap, as this will only save money and time in the long run, and it will be quite a while before anyone else gets to Democracy if we hold the tech, as they have been researching the Engineering line.

Considering we have no horses, we are still rather poorly prepared for a major war. Maps of this size would see STACKS of archers and such moving on us. The best way to fend off such a force is a combined approach: strong defenders, and enough of them in the front line cities to hold out while reinforcements are sent, along with a force of bombardment units (catapults, etc) to wound the enemy as they approach. Wounded units will retreat without attacking us, or if they do attack, they die sooner. Our lack of horses means we lack mobility, which means we need more total units to be secure, since we can't shuffle them around as quickly to plug gaps and respond to threats. LA and Pitt need walls and more troops, for starters.

We have Sistine and (as yet) almost no Cathedrals. We can't drop everything, but our largest cities need to give strong consideration to building Cathedrals soonish. Once we have Democracy, we may want to go for Astronomy and build the Observatory in Chicago. The AI's will start on Leo soon, so after Boston finishes its Cathedral, it could go back onto Palace in hopes of stealing Leo, too. If we make the effort, we could get every wonder from here on out. Leo's not normally a high priority for me, but with this many units, and the high cost to upgrade from pike to musket, it would be worth it. More to the point, if we build Cope and Leo, that keeps the cascade from starting back up. Something to think about.

SunTzu was the big one we wanted. EXCELLENT job on the tech choices, Carbon. We're on our way to Democracy, but stopped just long enough to nab SunTzu and get access to pikes. We'll never go wanting for a barracks again, and getting them free in front line or captured cities is not to be underestimated for a non-Militaristic civ in a game with space race disabled. And yet, without horsies, we are looking at a long time ahead of us before we'll be in a position to wage a long-reaching offensive war. The good news: there's plenty of building to do.


- Sirian

 

[Schnarrd]

Just curious. Didn't you catch the reference to the Ten Commandments? The worshipping of the golden calf while Moses was on Mount Sinai and the subsequent wandering of the desert for forty years?

 

[Carbon_Copy]

Not at the time of night that I was preparing my writeup, I didn't. Don't worry, I didn't play under any "sleepy gambit" conditions, I just wrote under them.