RBE3 - This Space Available For Rent

(0) 2150BC After looking at the terrain, I opt to send our settler to be produced next turn to the yellow dot on the coast; that ivory will be of great use to us in the future. I'm not going to leave our capital undefended though by sending the spear to the blockade; I don't want the game to end with an AI unit waltzing into Beijing. For that matter, I want a unit in Shanghai ASAP. Maybe I'm just not as daring as Urugharakh when it comes to settling. The units we have there + the foreign workers should be plenty to run a blockade. Germany and France have only The Wheel up on us, so let's see if I can swing a 2 for 1 deal here.

(1) 2110BC Settler completes and heads off to our desired site; I order up a warrior (2 turns at 5 shields/turn) for defense of Shanghai. Scouting with our units that are waiting around to blockade any English settlers reveals a wine luxury to the southeast. High, high priority on getting that as well; I can block off access to it with one unit and plan to do so.

(2) 2070BC Scouting reveals that the one wines luxury is actually three of them! Priority for this site is upgraded again; the next build in Beijing must be another settler to come here and nab the things. Other than that, relatively little happened this turn. The French get Writing this turn, and they do not have communication with the Germans! I sell it to them for the max they will pay, 39g (it was not valuable enough to get a tech). I hope to use that money to buy Mysticism and trade that for more tech - but we need a little more income first.

(3) 2030BC Beijing's expansion to size 3 provides us with enough income to purchase Mysticism from Gandhi for 56g and 2gpt. Then I turn around and sell Mysticism to Joan along with 6g and 1gpt for The Wheel. We can see the horses, and our city to be founded next turn on the coastal yellow dot will have one in its borders. Nice! Even better is the fact that in 2 more turns we get out of our 2gpt payment to England.

(4) 1990BC Nothing significant happened this turn.

(5) 1950BC Scouting reveals a one-tile freshwater lake right by the wines. I now know exactly where to put the desired city, where it will both get all four wines and be on fresh water. We also got out of our 2gpt payment to Liz this turn (yay!) England has a worker for sale this turn; I opt not to buy it since they seem to be crippled enough.

(6) 1910BC Germans complete the Colossus. Wow, that was fast! They must have started it immediately, since they do get the starting tech Bronze Working.

(7) 1870BC Nothing of great importance occurred.

(8) 1830BC Beijing completes settler. Warrior ordered up, for blockade duty or military police or whatever. Canterbury's population dropped from 3 to 1; looks like it produced a settler. My units are on it, getting ready to form an honorable blockade.

(9) 1790BC Ahh! Here come the French from the other side of the penninsula to try and grab those wines. Not on your life Joanie! I have a warrior unit there for just such an occasion. There are two ways to enter the penninsula, and whichever one they move towards, I will block with my warrior. Perfectly honorable, and yet I can keep them away forever, or at least the next couple turns. Hehe, it's so devious - I love it! :D The expected English settler has not appeared; maybe it went the other direction (?)

(10) 1750BC Nothing important happening as yet. A warrior produced in Beijing and I dial up another one; at this point we need warm bodies (warriors) more than actual defense (spears). Going to stretch it and play another turn or two until I get these wines - can't leave the next player in a dicey situation involving them.

(11) 1725BC The French found Bensancon in a most unexpected spot; on the lake but out of reach of the dyes. Guess they saw that they couldn't get past my blockading warrior. As a result the settler goes in a slightly less optimal spot that still nonetheless captures the three wines; it is in a wee bit of a cultural battle though and will consequently need a temple first. England got MapMaking this turn (no one else has it; we still lack Writing) and so I traded our world map for their territory map. England is full of jungle, but they also have a ton of spices and gems. No other lucrative trading opportunities presented themselves, though others should be possible soon. See notes in next post with map for next player (croald). :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/RBE3_1725BC.zip
 
Map:

RBE3_1725BC.jpg


Notes: We look to be in fairly average shape for a Deity game here. We have 4 cities by 1725BC, and have secured three different luxuries (and 2 excess wines). We have horses and can't see any other resources yet. The worker up by Shanghai is set to build a road to link up with France's road network; this will let us trade them our wines for good stuff like techs. Please continue it! I suggest building another settler out of Beijing when its current spear finishes. Shanghai will complete its temple in 2 turns (and therefore looks like it will win the culture battle with Rheims) and probably should produce a settler after that as well - the available land won't last much longer. I've marked on my map my ideas for cities. Red dot has significant overlap, but I don't see any better place to put it. I wanted to put the wines city one tile east and one tile northeast, but the French kind of prevented that... Green dot looks pretty good for avoiding overlap and has good potential between hills and floodplains. Blue dot is a stretch that is unlikely to happen, but I marked it anyway. If England continues to be this slow, we may get it. I marked a black dot as well in the middle; if we can get the other sites we will probably want to squeeze in a half-city somewhere in the middle. Its location will depend on whether we can get these sites or not and how the AI civs react. With luck though we will have 6 or 7 solid cities, plus whatever fishing villages we manage to squeeze in (I didn't bother to draw any of those). And with our location between England and France, we can expect a steady stream of AI units walking through our territory - which will mean we shouldn't have much trouble getting a war declaration on England or France when we want it. I get the feeling that we will want one sometime during the Middle Ages... I also apologize for the 11 turns, but I didn't want to leave things unfinished. 10 turns is the standard length from here on out. :goodjob:
 
Hey Sirp. Understandable that you have to bow out for a bit. Good luck with the big project at work. Hope to see you back with us in future when things calm down to a normal pace.

- Sirian
 
Originally posted by Sullla
See notes in next post with map for next player (croald). :)

Hi -- sorry I'm slow replying -- was sick yesterday, and still am not feeling quite right. I'll play tomorrow as long as nobody objects that I'm not technically eligible. I have a couple of Deity games in winning position and was trying to rush through actually finishing one this week, but didn't actually manage to do so. :(
 
Originally posted by croald
I'll play tomorrow as long as nobody objects that I'm not technically eligible.

That would be up to Sirian, I guess. Can you finish one of your deity games off quickly?

Three players isn't enough, so we couldn't very well carry on without you anyway.
 
Originally posted by Jaffa Tamarin

That would be up to Sirian, I guess. Can you finish one of your deity games off quickly?

If I can manage to stay out of endless war, I should have one done this weekend. I have a hundred turns to go to a 20k cultural victory. I have my own continent railroaded up, so I'm not seriously invadable, but the g.d. Zulu keep trying anyway. :mad:

But doing it means my turn here will be delayed.
 
I prefer to keep the rules for the DSG's as simple, and fair, as possible. Making exceptions for some folks -- no matter how reasonable it may sound -- opens a can of worms I think is best left closed. Currently, eligibility is fair, impartial, and clearly defined. Players don't have to be judged, or wonder at whether they have to play any politics, etc. Just win, baby. Win and you're in. That puts everything in your own hands, leaves your eligibility fate under your own control.

There would be no problem with adding a newly-eligible player to the roster later on. Games can go awry even when you think they are won -- a lot of things can go wrong on Deity -- so there is no substitute for completing a victory. Everyone now playing had to meet the admission standard, and some had to make special efforts, or try multiple times. What would it say to them in particular, and to other players who are interested but not yet eligible, if we decide to change or ignore the standard?

This way keeps personal opinions, biases, and emotion out of the process. Could any other standard be more fair and objective?


- Sirian
 
I agree with Sirian on this one. I purposely went out, started a deity game and finished it just so I could play in these games. I had to reinstall my civ3 at 1.29 losing my HOF and saved games in the process(long story). It took me two weeks to complete my qualification deity game due to my work schedule. I do feel like I earned my right to play in these games and that should be upheld.

The other interesting point is I was going for a domination win, and unlike Emperor games, the last AI wasn't out of it until the very end. So "in the bag" diety games are not as common as other levels.
 
I agree too - I thought of asking for an exception, since I had a Deity game in winning position but not yet done. But I started and finished my own Deity game just for eligibility in this series. Admittedly, it was the easiest, fastest Deity setup I could possibly think of (the report's on my site) :) , but it was a Deity win.
 
Fair enough. If I didn't really think I ought to qualify first, I wouldn't have made a point of mentioning that I hadn't done it yet.

Fifty turns to go. Things I've learned:

(1) Shaka will launch sneak attacks across the ocean even when you're "strong compared to these guys" and you have four infantry in every town; and

(2) It takes more than six or seven turns before he'll talk, even when you've taken three cities from him and are sinking his ships as fast as he can launch them.

:sniper:

(You may notice the thing I like least about Civ3 is the amount of time you have to sink into a game to get from a winning position to a scoreboard entry.)

[edit: fourteen turns without acknowleging my envoys, and counting...]
 
Well, until croald meets the qualifying requirements what should we do? Three-person roster? Look for other qualifying players? (We were going to run a 5-person rotation after all.) I will go with any option, but we need to keep the game moving and not let it fall into limbo status; nothing kills a SG faster than long periods where no one is "up" in the rotation. Ideas? Or maybe Jaffa should just play the next turn (?) :)
 
If Croald can finish off his deity game this weekend he can pick the game up. If he isn't qualified by Monday we'll skip him this round and I'll take my next turn.

Also, if anybody wants in, we've room for an extra player even with Croald.
 
May I present Exhibit A:

exhibit-A.gif


:D

So I guess I Got It. It's 48 hours to play, right?
 
(0) 1725 BC

preturn diplomacy check: india, germany, france, and england have iron
working, writing, and horseback riding on us; japan only has i/w and
writing. we have heard rumour of the great cities of Babylon and Persia
across the oceans, but no one knows how to find them. liz is only
cautious with us; joanie is polite; nobody else seems to really matter since
we don't border them.

nobody seems to have math or polytheism yet.
we're working on writing at min sci.

Poke around all the cities -- no apparent opportunities for
micromanagement, and the current builds seem sensible. no changes.


(1) 1700 BC

english settler/axe emerge from canterbury.

i move towards blockade, but the third axe is still too far away --
there's not going to be any way to stop them from getting to the flood
plain, unless the french axe keeps going somewhere where i can take
advantage of him.

no, wait a minute! if i play this right, i can push him north, and that
buys enough time to bring in the warrior and a slave to help. i can at
least keep him off the flood plains; maybe that'll discourage him enough
he won't choose to found.

one worker stays at nanking, to hook up the third wine. (on reflection,
this was probably :smoke:, but what's done is done.) two head west, to
connect up canton and/or join the settler blockade.


(2) 1675 BC

rheims' borders expand! shanghai has lost culture race.
temple completes in shanghai; start settler.

more french spears cross into our territory, don't know where they're
going.

i decide to take a gamble with the warrior doing guard duty in shanghai,
and send him north. am going to do a in-n-out border incursion onto
that mountain just inside france, to see what there is to see.

diplo check: mapmaking has been traded around, but still no-one has math
or polytheism. philosophy, laws, and literature are unknown because we
still lack writing.

I guess that makes this the time to get us a map. we buy india's world
map for wm + 5gpt + 11g, and then find that this makes it valuable
enough to get horseback riding from france -- well, for world map + 1gpt
+ 21g. riding isn't what we need most (i'd rather have iron working, to
see where the deposits are), but it's what we can afford, and the value
of our map might disappear at any time, so I do it.

Sell our map to Japan for 13g and England for 1g, just to clean up.

The upshot of buying India's map is that we now know there is a great
desert south of the english jungle, and india, japan and germany are
south of the desert. germany is scrunched into a corner behind india.

minimap-1675BC.gif


i gamble a little and switch beijing from the spear it's currently
building (due in 1) to a settler (due in 2), because we're in the last
lap of the land grab, and if we don't get that settler *now*, we aren't
going to have any place left to put him.


(3) 1650 BC

i send the worker by shanghai into french territory to complete our
road, risking french wrath.


(4) 1625 BC

joanie demands the worker leave. but we're only here to *help*, joanie!

she's still polite, so i may risk ignoring the demand. no, wait! i see
she's finished a road segment i can connect to from neutral territory.

i think that wasn't visible before i made the incursion, or i hope not,
else this whole move has been big weed.

persia completes the pyramids.

settler finishes in beijing; builds warrior. (at this point, getting
into a war means we've lost, I think -- we just need warm bodies.)


(5) 1600 BC

japan takes oracle in the cascade

end 1gpt to india.
end 2gpt to england.

yes! my four-man hook-block on the english settler causes him to
retreat a tile. we'll get the river! (unless something else goes
wrong.)

france, india, england, and japan have acquired mathematics. germany
still doesn't have mapmaking. we don't have anything to trade, so
nothing we can do about it.


(6) 1575 BC

nothing much happens. continue to dance with english settler. french
warriors cruising through our territory briefly join in the wall.


(7) 1550 BC

beijing builds warrior, starts settler.

shanghai builds settler, starts granary. there's really only one site
left for us to try for, and if jaffa elects to continue the plan, the
settler coming out of beijing will be ready first.

canterbury's population is currently 1 -- i *think* it was higher than
that before, at least two. settler, worker, or whip?


(8) 1525 BC

nothing much happens.


(9) 1500 BC

cruel joanie politely demands i pay tribute to her hotness. wm+19g. i
become her beach.

the floating blockade drives the english settler back into english
territory. tsingtao founded at the mouth of gold river. :D

set to build granary first, since its only cultural battle is with
london (1 tile), and that's already a lost cause. otoh, expanded
boundaries *would* pull in the second flood plain, which would make this
a food powerhouse. okay, screw the granary -- temple first.

worker completes road to France! joanie will give us iron working +
stuff for our only silk. i think we can live without the silk -- it's
much more important to know where the iron is while i've got a live
settler impatiently waiting for directions.

trade: silks to france for iron working + territory map + 15g

bismarck still doesn't have mapmaking, but he's picked up math, so he's
still at least two up on us.

well, well. :undecide: our only shot at iron is at sullla's turquoise reach site.
options:

(a) go for the reach site. advantages: may give us iron.
disadvantages: low food, no water, will be a glorified fishing village.
risks losing the core site to a (potential) french settler. will take
six turns for current settler to get there -- he can beat the english
settler i know about, but if canterbury just produced one i don't think
there's anyway I could stop it from beating me.

(b) go for the central site (sullla's red dot). advantages: could found
there today; guarantees cohesive territory. no water, but has plains
cow for food bonus (already irrigated). disadvantage: high risk of
losing the iron: settler currently building in beijing will take ten
turns to get to the site.

okay, i'm going for the iron. if Jaffa wants to veto me, all we'll effectively have lost is a
few turns at getting the red dot settled, but not enough that we could
possibly lose the site -- any settler able to beat us back would have to
be visible by now.

i relax the blockade on the english settler near tsingtao for a turn, to
distract him from going for the iron for another turn -- maybe a waste
of effort, but you never know.


(10) 1475 BC

london drops from pop 5 to pop 3, so we've got another english settler
to worry about, in addition to the question mark at canterbury (where i
didn't notice if it was a drop of 1 or 2).

state of the nation:

* settler south-east of canton is heading to found next to the iron,
four moves to the southwest.

* one slave is building a road towards canton and the ivory; the native
worker is coming down from shanghai to help, since there didn't seem
to be anything urgent left to do up there. canton desperately needs
irrigation, as well.

* canton doesn't actually need the temple for territory any more,
if we get the town sites we want, because both the ivory and
the horse will get swept up in the border closure. might be worth
switching to granary, but i leave that call to jaffa.

* one slave is building a road to connect to tsingtao; another is
irrigating the flood plains there. that latter has been part of the
blockade, as has the spear now fortified in the town. probably you
will want to interrupt the worker to keep him in the blockade -- i
just figured as long as he was standing there he might as well start
making himself useful.

* beijing is schedule to grow to pop 3 in two turns, and has a settler
due the turn after that, who should be able to grab sullla's red dot.

* two french axes have already disappeared into english territory; two
spears are following them, and a sword and another axe are just
starting the crossing. say hi to liz for us, boys.

* writing is due in 7 at min sci.

* haven't seen any french settlers yet -- it seems like we're due soon,
unless joanie has a peninsula back there she's hiding from us. note:
we just bought her territory map, so we at least know what she's got
now.

hm. can't figure out how to get the forum to make an href-style link (it keeps quoting
my code), and i don't see how you get to the upload server, either. so here's the
save file, from my own web space.

http://www.gungeralv.org/civ3/RBE3-1475BC.zip
 
Here's our Sahara:

RBE3-1675BC-sw.png
 
Sounds like some nice work on the last turn croald - that blockade looks like it did the trick! Since we will have a settler out of Beijing in only 4 more turns, and it will only take 1 turn after that to move into position to found on the red dot, I think the call to go for our reach spot is absolutely justified. Going without iron in a game is just no fun, and it would essentially close off any military possibilities before the industrial age. Looks like we've only 4 or 5 techs behind at this point, which is very good since we were not able to be the contact broker. If we can secure the iron and city sites we want, we'll have 3 luxuries, both ancient age resources, and 5-6 good cities to work with. And that's more than enough to be in a position to win on a standard-sized Deity map. :cool:

PS - The English have a worker in their capital this turn (I saw when I opened up the save game.) If we REALLY want to cripple them, we could buy it. From a research standpoint, it might be interesting to see how badly the AI does when it goes the first 2500 years without any workers whatsoever. Decision is up to to Jaffa though.
 
Originally posted by Sullla
Sounds like some nice work on the last turn croald - that blockade looks like it did the trick!

Thanks! :beer:


Since we will have a settler out of Beijing in only 4 more turns, and it will only take 1 turn after that to move into position to found on the red dot, I think the call to go for our reach spot is absolutely justified.

Two turns. Don't forget the river.

But I think it may already be too late for a French settler to beat us, and maybe also for England. The bigger worry is that the reach site is still under fog of war, so for all we know England may already have beat us there.
 
Ooops croald,

AFAIK using the worker in the blocakde is a no - no.

What victory options did you guys chose? Apart from the 3 luxuries which is very good, and the iron which is ok, the number of towns founded is too small IMHO. This is going to be a tough one if all victory options are on.

Hope you'll beat them.
 
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