RE: Keeping up with Diety AI

[texico11]

Here's the saved game link that Spoonwood asked for. I didn't plan on hijacking the thread much more.

Details:

Deity
Archipelago - Huge
24 Civs (2 destroyed, Celts, Russians)
Currently Researching: Theory of Gravity

Because There's so many civs on such a massive map the diplomacy between so many civs is interesting.

Original post:

"What about catching others up with there Tech?

I'm playing a game at the moment, huge map, 24 civs. There are a couple of civs trailing the bottom, stuck at early middle ages. The bulk of the civs, including me, are just approaching the industrial ages, but 4 civs, the Egyptians, the Ottomans, The Carthage, and The Germans, have been leading the way most of the game, and are most likely well into the middle of the industrial ages. They've been trading techs with eachother, and because they have a fair gap, It's impossible for me to catch them, because there's no civs in the middle for me to use as a hook. And trading doesn't seem to work, because I have nothing of particular value. Luxuries won't cut tech, and neither will gold. And the resources I have, they already have (which is all of them). I've tried everything, and my science sliders already max'ed out (using the GPT I got from selling them Lux) but they've always remained ahead.

As a result, they've also beaten me to every single Wonder. Even with Pre-Shielding they've usually managed to complete a Wonder before I've even learnt the tech to start construction. Consequently, they have the upper hand in military, so that's not the easiest option. I've tried stirring things up a bit by Using alliances to make the big guys fight and knock eachother out, and It's worked to a certain degree in that I managed to knock the Celts and now most likely the Egyptians off the top spots while avoiding Military confrontation, but If i try and mess with the Ottomans or the Carthage (the super powers) I will most likely have some serious fighting to do. The one good thing about my situation is It's Archipelago, and I'm on a sizable island that I almost completely control, so I'm slowly gaining a massive upper-hand in ocean war-fare."

 

[Spoonwood]

I open it up and see a grassland cow you're not using withing your cultural borders. You also have an unused grassland wheat within your cultural borders. Plop a town down next to spots like these and do it *much* *much* earlier! In some of your 12 cities you have *loads* of extra food. That food simply won't do you anything. Better to mine irrigate tiles and/or forest tiles around those cities until you have as many shields as you can get, without losing food per turn in those cities (London, Hastings, Oxford). To that end, you probably need more workers (do you know about worker pumps?). You've worried about research, but you have like 4 libraries and 3 universities. You need more of those. I don't see a need for cathedrals and colosseums in this game. If you want them, fine. But, with 6 luxuries, put in libraries, universities, and marketplaces first. In general you have quite a few unused tiles within your territory... plop down towns to use these tiles. Usually people assume Conquests for games around here, so if you post a Vanilla save, please warn us.

Unless there's some bug between Conquests and Vanilla, you've soiled your trading reputation. I checked and France won't take gpt for Theory of Gravity. If you want to keep up in tech, in general at least, keep your trading reputation clean. This way you can get techs as cheaply as possible... you can buy tech via gold per turn deals. When you soil your reputation, trading for tech becomes much harder.

 

[texico11]

I open it up and see a grassland cow you're not using withing your cultural borders. You also have an unused grassland wheat within your cultural borders. Plop a town down next to spots like these and do it *much* *much* earlier! In some of your 12 cities you have *loads* of extra food. That food simply won't do you anything. Better to mine irrigate tiles and/or forest tiles around those cities until you have as many shields as you can get, without losing food per turn in those cities (London, Hastings, Oxford). To that end, you probably need more workers (do you know about worker pumps?). You've worried about research, but you have like 4 libraries and 3 universities. You need more of those. I don't see a need for cathedrals and colosseums in this game. If you want them, fine. But, with 6 luxuries, put in libraries, universities, and marketplaces first. In general you have quite a few unused tiles within your territory... plop down towns to use these tiles. Usually people assume Conquests for games around here, so if you post a Vanilla save, please warn us.

Unless there's some bug between Conquests and Vanilla, you've soiled your trading reputation. I checked and France won't take gpt for Theory of Gravity. If you want to keep up in tech, in general at least, keep your trading reputation clean. This way you can get techs as cheaply as possible... you can buy tech via gold per turn deals. When you soil your reputation, trading for tech becomes much harder.

Yeah, it was a PTW save, I forgot to mention.

Regarding the food tiles, I tried to place the cities around these as best I could, but I didn't want to cramp other cities space, so about 3 of the food resources on the island I couldn't get within borders. The workers I set to automate seem to hate mines, because they've turned a ton of land into irrigation for some reason. In London I've tried to mine most of the land, but of course the floodplains around London and Hastings can only be irrigated.

I didn't bother with Universities because I thought they where useless. It states that it doubles scientific research in the city, it didn't say anything about doubling the money allocated to the science department, so I thought it only has effect if you have converted scientists in the city. Upon experimenting I didn't find the Research getting any faster change at all, so I stopped making them. That was an error on my part, and the Civilopedia wasn't too clear about it.

The reason I was favouring Cathedrals and Colloseums in the outer cities was because I wanted to expand my borders to stop those few foreign cities expanding onto any of my resources/lux. As you can see that source of silk is extremely close to the Carthage settlement. Also, because I've losed a ton of intercontinental cities to flipping because of my horrendous culture

For some reason I've never been able to get tech for GPT in any game ever. I've been pretty clean with my reputation this game, cleaner than usual, after I came on here and heard about the benefits. That's why so many civs are gracious to me, because I havn't done any ROP rapes or treaty breaking, and I havn't even declared war yet. The 3 wars I've been in where declared on me, because I asked them to remove there forces from my borders. So I don't understand why my reputation is soiled. There was one incident where I had a trade going on with Persia, but the idiots set up an Embargo against me with Russia, effectively ending the trade, and for some reason I've been blamed for this. That's the only dodgy dealing I can think of this game.

Thanks alot for the feedback, I might plop those towns down on those tiles then.

 

[Spoonwood]

Regarding the food tiles, I tried to place the cities around these as best I could, but I didn't want to cramp other cities space, so about 3 of the food resources on the island I couldn't get within borders.

Don't worry about cramping other cities spaces. You can always re-arrange tile selection as you like. Many players suggest 12 worked tiles per city. You have a ton of unused tiles. Personally, I don't mind some unused tiles in the early game, as long as I can *eventually* use all the tiles within my cultural borders. But, tiles that can't get used within your cultural borders post Sanitation... especially in core cities... simply doesn't help things.

Don't automate workers. I'll save *ever*. Even automating workers to clean pollution can not work out as nicely as you'd like it.

It states that it doubles scientific research in the city, it didn't say anything about doubling the money allocated to the science department, so I thought it only has effect if you have converted scientists in the city.

No, universities and libraries don't affect specialists. They multiply the commerce of the city going towards science. One university might not make research faster, but 3 or 6 might. It also depends on the tech and how many beakers that have gone into that tech already. Libraries and universities produce better culture per shield cost than cathedrals and colosseums, so if you want both, but libraries and universities first. Cultural does little to prevent AIs from plopping down new towns.

What does the advisor guy say when you offer gpt for tech, and how much do you offer? I don't know if it's your reputation or a game problem. If it's a game problem, I'd suggest re-installing the game... not sure if that would help. I don't think you have a clean reputation in this game, as you've indicated. Along with your military situation, I'd start another one and count this as a learning experience, but maybe that's just me.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

yeah - food resources are precious. If you worry about squeezing cities, just make little camps which do nothing but create workers. The workers can be used for improvements or to make your other cities larger.

 

[mao_tse_tung]

I downloaded the save file, but when I tried to load the game, it said "invalid save file", I wonder what've gone wrong?