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Reaching for the stars

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Velvet glove, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    This map might win the Best Petra City competition. Mmmmm, haboob Desert and Uluru.
     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Unknown Nazca means it is not quite there.
    This thread has lost me. Surely it would be better to post a save and have people try different options for 10 turns and discuss and agree which one is best them move on to the next 10.
     
    Casualty of war likes this.
  3. Velvet glove

    Velvet glove Chieftain

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    I agree, it got out of hand and it's only T8...

    I wanted to use this to get a better understanding of what's important to think about when going for SV but with a practical example rather than just abstract discussion. Like how do you decide if it's worth going for a religion, or how much to explore, or what tech/civic progress is good for the mid-game. Not so much to find the best play for a given moment because that's often hard to say - if you do a religion it's a big commitment and the benefits will only be seen 50-100 turns down the line. But not sure what the best way to do it is.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There are lots of SV threads that talk about all of this. Maybe plough through a few? Look at some old GOTM games?
     
  5. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    I'm really enjoying this. Lots of good insight, and I appreciate people sharing. But I second the share the Start and compare 10 Turn increments suggestion; Turn by Turn is going to get too cluttered to make best use of the information.
     
  6. Velvet glove

    Velvet glove Chieftain

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    Thank you. I was thinking to retire the game because if Victoria being one of the most thorough people on the forum finds it goes in too much detail, then very few would have the patience for it. But if you like it I can keep going, by the Internet Law of Lurking there must be others too, and I enjoy the finer strategic discussions.

    I didn't post the save because of spoilers - if we do different runs we'll explore differently and in the current position I'm inclined to send my warrior west, but if I knew that you found a science CS to the east, my subconscious will find some backward rationalisation why it's the right choice and I can resist it but then can't legitimately change my mind

    But, the more interesting it is for everyone the better, and we can still discuss strategy even if there are some spoilers in the air so I added the save to the first post of the thread. I'm not sure though how this 10 turn comparison would work - for evaluating which start location gets better yields or for some combat situations like Victoria's Tactical fun threads yes, but most choices have much longer impacts and it's not possible to tell even in 20 or 30 turns which was better.
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    one of the less appreciated points is that after T100 ish you civ is at the stage that each mistake only has a small impact.
    At t1-50 each decision has a very big impact
    After 10 turns you may have made 5 decisions, and that’s fine
    Between turns 30 and 40 how many decisions do you make.
    For someone wanting to learn you should be watching the thread not doing it.
    The trouble is whoever does the thread would probably do some things wrong and get criticism.
    Just not sure it is the best way to learn.

    An SV is probably the most complex victory planning wise so is a great one to learn on.
    But I think it is about learning things in layers and especially learning the generically good moves in the first 50 turns. I am not sure wandering from base like this game is safe but if you are willing to restart then it is an approach to take.

    What you really want your warrior to do is make your city safe, get era point and eurekas. By far the best thing to do to get all 3 is find a barb camp ASAP and to ensure your city is safe it is about checking around your city first. If you want to scout, build a scout, that’s what I do, but I also use that scout to try and get my warrior fed and ensure my city is safe. It helps my plan out my future cities because a Coliseum is useful and that needs packed cities.
    Many who are really good players would always start slinger and animal husbandry. They are after a very early attack on a civ. it’s another strategy that also works well and there are other openings.
    It is a question of how you play but walking your warrior away in a straight line is seriously asking for trouble and just lost any interest in the game. The fact that there were so many other decisions in this first 10 moves means you really need to start thinking about them one at a time.

    I found playing a few games to Feudalism is a really good if you try and get Feudalism earlier as the challenge. For example, in the latest GOTM I got to Feudalism around T74. Can you? I think I could have pushed it to around T60 but compromised. Also getting to feudalism at T74 is fine but I also have 8 settlers out on that map (6 cities 2 settlers on the move). Also consider what is worth helping and what was crazy to do even though it got you there faster. I choose Feudalism as it is a very good point in the game to be aware of when you start a game. An early knight rush is still incredibly powerful, add 3-5 turns to Feudalism to get a knight rush with general. Chopping at Feudalism is strong because of builder charges and Feudalism is also the point farm triangles start kicking your population. This exercise would make you appreciate the value of culture and inspirations, choosing good and bad ones. How can you get culture, what is the effect of monuments on city growth and production.

    Just my recommendation, I would retire this thread, yes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  8. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    That seems a little extreme, V. Yeah, I would put some Hammers toward getting my military strength up to China-deterrent levels and waves of Red might show up any minute now. But since Barbs can't raze your capital minimal risk so far although it might make it difficult to get a Settler out.

    Other than that, I agree with all your points. I just can't get my Feudalism game back on track since the last patch, honestly the patch before that. Help me, Obi-Wan, you're my only hope!
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes they can. I have lost my capital on deity twice to barbs.
     
  10. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    Really? Huh. I've had them swarm the heck out of me but never manage to finish the job even when it looked like I was completely wrecked. I've definitely had Barbs obliterate my expansion cities.

    Similar to Velvet glove, I will frequently send my starting unit wandering o'er the hills. Meanwhile I'm cranking out a deterrent & scouting force back home. There's too much Era Score, Gold and Eurekas in Barb Camps, so much that my game is usually stunted if I don't have 1-2 nearby, so I want something to go hunting with.

    I would really like to see how this game pans out. Velvet glove is doing an early Builder start, and I'm curious how it will result.
     
  11. Velvet glove

    Velvet glove Chieftain

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    Feudalism sounds like a great mid-game target yes. That point really takes you to the next gear. I'll play with it.

    This is also very interesting:

    I used to do it like this but now am thinking that it takes several turns to deal with a camp and heal and the benefit isn't that great and it's better to use the time to explore. So now I just leave them behind and deal with them later if/when needed for security, cash or era points. Meeting CS, getting the quests if not the envoys, meeting other civs so you can sell luxuries and open borders (and they also give 1 era point), seems a better investment of warrior time. But I'm happy to change my mind on it.

    I don't understand the concern about barbs and the capital however. I've lost it a couple of times too but barbs are usually only a problem if I get sandwiched between them and a nearby warmongering civ (especially Wilhelmina!!!!). Otherwise a slinger or a slinger and a warrior if it's a really heavy attack are sufficient and they can be built as needed and not before. The biggest annoyance is delaying the settler because they are around or them pillaging my first district.

    In this game for example we haven't seen a scout yet, and the capital is relatively secluded. There is a good chance that a scout passes without spotting it, and even if it spots it they will come from one direction. So there is plenty of time to prepare, and I'd much rather not build military now but after Agoge, and use the warrior to see what's around, like is there another CS or a good settling spot that can serve as a staging area for the Chinese invasion in 30 turns.

    I'll certainly continue at least a bit more, for the start it doesn't matter if it's SV or not and I haven't seen others present detailed analysis and thoughts past the very opening move and it can be a useful perspective. I was going to continue the other day but couldn't make up my mind about religion vs builder sailing exploration vs settler. I think I'll sacrifice the exploration for now and just do one settler and religion before army and China conquest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2020
    nauberry likes this.

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