Real World

[Memphus]

@Zombie69

I send private messages to you and get it out of the thread and let everyone else in the world go on about thier topics and not worry about Canadian politics

 

[ReccaSquirrel]

The USA is striving for a Cultural, not Domination, victory.

Examples:

The McDonalds website says it has "more than 30,000 local restaurants serving nearly 50 million people in more than 119 countries each day."

Starbucks has over 6000 coffeehouses, I believe. Its site reports "more than 1500 coffeehouses in 31 markets outside North America".

I plan on modding Starbucks as a religion founded by Economics once I learn how.

 

[ReccaSquirrel]

Going back to the original topic.

I'd say US won by Cultural Victory but decided to take one more turn and fouled it all up.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

How the hell is food not cultural??????

And nobody can win culture victory anymore thanks to internet/globalization. It's hard to tell who starts what anymore.

Also saying USA doesn't have any culture is like saying any European (why is it a seperate continent form Asia anyway? I smell racism lolz) nations don't have culture because it's really from the germanic tribes + the romans, and romans don't have culture because they burrowed it from etrucians, etrucians also don't have any because they got it from the greeks and other civilizations around the mediterranean, etc.

 

[kingjoshi]

OFF-TOPIC:

Hey, I'm been planning on immigrating to Canada (this year hopefully, as soon as I can find a software enginneering job). What percentage of the population is conservative? Are there a lot of xenophobes? That's one reason I'm staying away from Australia.

 

[Zombie69]

Depends on the region. The Prairies (Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba) are conservative. Ontario is liberal. Quebec is separatist. The maritimes are on welfare. And B.C. is a mix. Of course that's gross generalization but when you look at who gets elected where, that's mostly true.

 

[kingjoshi]

But free speech gives double culture. And they razed all those Nepalese temples.

When did this happen? I'm Nepali and I don't remember being told of the Chinese (or any other group) coming to Nepal and destroying anything...

 

[Zombie69]

OFF-TOPIC:

Hey, I'm been planning on immigrating to Canada (this year hopefully, as soon as I can find a software enginneering job). What percentage of the population is conservative? Are there a lot of xenophobes? That's one reason I'm staying away from Australia.

As for xenophobia, stay away from Alberta and you should be fine. Now i'm gonna get it from any Albertan in the forums...

 

[kingjoshi]

That sounds like you think that everyone in germany silents about the drittes reich. The facts: A whole year of historyclass in school deals with this topic. In high school two years. Prohibited are only propaganda-like speech. Nearly every week a documentation is shown in the tv. We have museums about this topic, internetpages, demonstrations and so on. The small group of "brown" people deny the history, its not like they dont know it.

I think, it is really ridiculous to believe, that we have no free speech in europe...

I didn't say Europeans don't have Free Speech. I said it's limited in a few ways I don't agree with. Someone said you don't have Free Speech in the US and I was saying I think (even including the eroding rights here), US still has more than most countries in the world, which is a lot (both in terms of freedom of speech and countries).

 

[kingjoshi]

As for xenophobia, stay away from Alberta and you should be fine. Now i'm gonna get it from any Albertan in the forums...

Is my eyes or computer playing tricks on me? First time I read your post, I read another sentence that said, (paraphrasing) "Since you're Asian, you'll probably move to B.C."

And I was thinking, yeah, probably, how did he know? And now, the statement is gone and there is no sign of you editing it!

 

[Zombie69]

I added the sentence when i read your post saying you're from Nepal. Deleted it when i saw your other post saying you live in the States. Asians usually move to B.C., but Americans tend to move to Toronto.

When you edit a post soon enough after posting it, the system doesn't add the "Last edited by..." remark.

 

[kingjoshi]

I added the sentence when i read your post saying you're from Nepal. Deleted it when i saw your other post saying you live in the States. Asians usually move to B.C., but Americans tend to move to Toronto.

When you edit a post soon enough after posting it, the system doesn't add the "Last edited by..." remark.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Well, I was born in Nepal but have been living in the US for most of my life. The two cities I considered moving to were Vancouver and Toronto. I guess I'll find out whether I turned out more American or Nepali...

Back on Topic:

There is no chance of a civ winning in the "real world" until I become its ruler

 

[GinandTonic]

Strange, claiming America wins a cultural victory by selling everyone Hamburgers (german) and French fries...

 

[Mauritania]

Yeah, culture works funny in the game. When you take a city the culture disappears which is like telling all the people to forget everything and start learning things again our way.

If Civ IV was true to real life, the coalition would be having a much easier time in Iraq.

Cultures aren't mutually exclusive, they interact <- I say that as the only thing on TV here which is Macedonian is the news yet we haven't yet been cultured flipped by Greece.

 

[Gwath]

I didn't say Europeans don't have Free Speech. I said it's limited in a few ways I don't agree with. Someone said you don't have Free Speech in the US and I was saying I think (even including the eroding rights here), US still has more than most countries in the world, which is a lot (both in terms of freedom of speech and countries).

Europe has limitations on free speech? What was the country that grabs people without trial and tortures 'm again? Not to mention switzerland, probably the closest thing to a true democracy you'll find.
(Even though in my opinion that isn't a very smart thing either, in a true democracy you give all the power to the media.)

Anyway, on-topic!: Europe, diplomatic victory. Or American space race. Or China/India domination victory, they sure have the population requirement!

 

[Percinho]

Right, let's try and clear one thing up for good. America hasn't even existed long enough to think of gaining a culture victory. Theyt may dominate the movie and fast-food scene around most of the world, but they are all veeeeeeeery recent in the grand scheme of things.

If we're relating it to game terms, the culture points built up over thousands of years by, say, Homer's Odessey and Iliad, will greatly eclipse the culture built up recently by American efforts. Throw in Shakespeare, Machiavelli, SunTsu and various other works, and US films will have to stay in the public eye for centuries before any hope of cultural victory could be achieved.

And I'm not even going to stray on to the topic of how many of the American films are based on on the works of the above authors...

That they have a cultural influence at the moment is without doubt. But couching it in civ terms, it isn't enough to come close to a victory for centuries yet.

 

[jar2574]

Europe has limitations on free speech? What was the country that grabs people without trial and tortures 'm again?

You are confused about civil rights, as many other posters in this thread have been. Here, you mix up the right to a speedy and fair trial and the right to be free from cruel or unusual punishment with free speech rights. America's free speech laws remain among the most liberal in the world, and are more expansive than those in Europe.

 

[jar2574]

I don&#180;t know, what you think, but i agree with the idea to prohibit public speech like "The massmurder of jews has never happened!" or "Lets go to [insert any country] and kill those damned [insert any swearword]!"

This line of thought exemplifies the difference between American and European attitudes regarding free speech. In America this type of public speech is not prohibited.

Maybe we have different ideas of freedom and peace, but I don&#180;t like peoples who try to set up other people against someone. I think it is right to prevent a witchhunt.

The value of these types of speech is open to debate. Thoughtful arguments can be made on both sides. I prefer the John Stuart Mill / Oliver Wendall Holmes line of reasoning rather than the modern European arguments against hateful speech. Regardless of our opinions about which side of that debate is correct, however, the fact that America's free speech laws are more liberal than Europe's is not really open to debate.

However, inciting violence (in terms of conspiratory note or being an accomplish) or threatening is and should be illegal. Saying stupid things should not be illegal just because you disagree with it or dislike it.

Inciting violence at some distance point in the future is not illegal in the USA. Rousing the people to commit violent acts is only illegal if the threat of violence is imminent. The USA law is extremely liberal, allowing a parade of marchers to walk down the street calling for the overthrow of the government, for instance (as long as they aren't advocating that it happen at the conclusion of the march).

Conspiracy is a different matter, and conspirators can be arrested for it from the moment the conspiracy is undertaken.

 

[Memphus]

OFF-TOPIC:

Hey, I'm been planning on immigrating to Canada (this year hopefully, as soon as I can find a software enginneering job). What percentage of the population is conservative? Are there a lot of xenophobes? That's one reason I'm staying away from Australia.

To get a look at the political representation in Canada I direct you to:
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060121/election_poll_060121
These are various differnt polling breakdowns over the election which stated in December, and we go to vote on Monday January 23rd.
Other links which would allow you to read up on it include our national web page
http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/
and some alternatives
http://www.ctv.ca/
http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/Special+Features/Articles/election_2006.htm
However these do include biases as they are not just polls of the population.

You may then decide what Canada is, as every person should for themself.

 

[thenooblet22]

It is because of these bias statements from users, like Zombie69, that it is almost unbearable to even have a good conversation on these forums: everything is either the corrupt USA or the pure Europeans/Canadians. It is not all black and white in this world and though many people doubt, there is still some morality and decency in the USA (i.e. the other half of the population who didn't vote for Bush).