Realism Invictus

[Walter Hawkwood]

Not the UV map, the model itself - cut it to pieces and you'll be able to move the UV bits separately. But generally speaking I am no authority on Blender and can't give any practical advice on how to do stuff there.

 

[JDCP]

T-4 and T-4MS are two completely different planes; T-4MS (the model you've linked) never existed past the concept stage. The model (and frankly, the concept it's based on) looks quite ugly as well, unfortunately. When I find good models of rare/prototype stuff I try adding it in at least a niche way. Another Soviet prototype, Mig-1.44, was actually added in 3.7 as the default advanced fighter (as it does look quite generically advanced) - this one at least made it to the maiden flight stage.

I didn't realize the T-4 does look better, but even more complex! And I do agree the T-4MS is a bit ugly. I did find 3d model online for a T-4 though on another page, but that made me wonder... what are your views towards modding using someone else's assets? I mean, do you prefer to have permission from the author of these assets first or you just do as you want? I've had some trouble in the past with these ethical dilemmas of modding I try to be as respectful as possible, but sometimes I use things without asking first.

Purely cosmetic, depending on the era they became vassals.

What's a puppy state anyway? first time I hear the term... honestly it sounds funny

Creative differences and poor communication skills, and I'll leave it at that. If you really really need further reading, feel free to read this thread backwards for several dozens of pages.

Doesn't sound like a pleasant reading, let's just leave it at that.

Loading screen is just some playful stuff I threw together

Kilroy was here! Very nice art.

Main Menu is based on a couple of works by MC Escher, and has "change" and "passage of time" as the main themes, along with some nice visual references to tiles - very relevant to a Civ game.

The art does fit with the game very well, makes it look sophisticated. I like it!

I actually have a couple of HOI4 infantries in RI. They are not my go-to choice, as they do require a lot of postprocessing.

Knowing this now I more or so can see why there's such a noticeable quality difference between this mod graphics and the other mods

The degree depends on the game in question. Some are both stylistically and technically very close to Civ 4 and require very little post-processing. Plane models from Supreme Commander are a good example of that. Some are overly detailed and require quite a lot of simplification and texture downscaling to not strain Civ 4 engine resources - for instance, there's a lot of EU4 infantry models, but they have to be cut down quite radically when adding. Also, for stylistic consistency, I often edit both the textures (to match skin tone and colour schemes) and models (to match particular Civ 4 unit proportions) of units from other games. A good example of that is AoE3 - while the model polycounts are quite acceptable to Civ 4, the proportions of units are all wrong, and the textures rely a lot on shaders and lighting that Civ 4 engine doesn't provide, and that would be very visible when put into the mod "as is" - so I have to both adjust the proportions of bodies and "paint" some shading on the textures before I add them in.

Tons of work I see, this effort is not in vain as it can clearly be seen though, considering those planes you have converted are all of the upmost quality and blend in perfectly

a huge earth map

It is one of the best maps to play and I agree with you that this game can be very exciting specially when your enemies are more powerful and you gotta use your units carefully, 4d chess for dummies never give up in a war because nothing in this game feels more rewarding than surviving an invasion!

not now just as I was ready to participate .......

As soon as we get ourselves a place for this kind of talk, I look forward hearing of you, also I can't wait to try out your modmod, will it work with 3.7?

I see you!

I see me! Contrary to some people here I'm one of those that value Spanish historical influence a lot, after all much of what we have is thanks to them, so for me it's like being in the game but two times!

All right, I suggest you all take this happy international cultural exchange somewhere else. Heartwarming as it is, it isn't really pertinent to the purpose of the thread.

I agree, I really didn't wanted to write all that because it does clutter the thread a bit, sometimes I feel a bit bad when I write wayy to much. But just now did I realize after reading Pecheneg's reply that you can make a ''spoiler:'' section, which is mighty useful and I'll make sure to use it more...
Actually, let's put it in action.

Spoiler RI mostly unrelated stuff, Russia, Etc :

Thank you very muchAgainst the background of the tremendous successes of a long list of countries in the fight against the dead soldiers of the Second World War, this is especially valuable.

Yes, much sacrifice has been done to achieve what Russia is now, many people look at it with disgust, to a certain extent so do I, but such thing would be disrespectful for those who fought, so while I don't approve war I admire what so many men fought for: peace

Wow! I am glad to meet the man from the Caribbean. The very international staff is one of the most attractive aspects of this forum, and it is always a pleasure to chat with a representative of a non-trivial country. The "global village" on the Internet is still inhabited mainly by residents of the Nordic countries.

Yes, luckily this is becoming more common as the decades pass, 30 years ago if you met someone from my country in internet that person was probably living in the US and not here, but nowadays everyone has a computer!

At the same time, Latin America occupies a very honorable place in the long list of my hobbies. Once upon a time, a very thick academic volume on the history of the region fell into my hands – and I was somewhat stunned by the recognizable parallels. Much of what seemed to be purely Eastern European phenomena turned out to be a commonplace characteristic of relatively Westernized countries with a catching-up type of development. And this persists in current policy (the course of regional economic integration and other boring things , for example).

Which explains why initially your ideas were so strong herewhen our countries have suffered so much, one emphatizes with even the further away.

The truth is, the more you learn about the world, the more you realize we are all the same. We have lived under different backgrounds yes and for that very same reason what works somewhere doesn't works here, but at the end of the day we are all human and that is somethign to be proud of.

At the same time, I have very little knowledge about the Dominican Republic simply because of the lack of sources.

Not like we have such a big international presence anyway and even then, most of our people don't know much of their history either, sadly that only means desinformation and hate spread easier and glorification of the wrong personalities is more common than it should be

Well, 1. you were glad to see me. Given that I can well imagine the intensity of the current propaganda, this in itself is not trivial. By the way, almost half of the Russian propaganda is translations of Western propaganda. Obviously, the Russian interference has gone so far that these guys are working for Putin in droves.
2. I saw in the man who shared my admiration for LCVT's past as a good Samaritan rescuing suffering from thirst, something surprisingly native. Birch trees, nesting dolls, and the ability to smuggle vodka onto the ISS are, in general, the true spir... it of Russia.

I know what you mean, but even if our opinions towards that were to be opposed that isn't reason enough for me to not be kind. I might be a bit influenced by propaganda, but I am individualistic enough to not go around repeating the same hate speeches disguised as good deeds that so many people think somehow are of any help to whatever is going at the east. As far my father would tell me as a kid: ''Never let someone tell you what to believe in''. Since you mention the propaganda, this takes me back to the days on which people said that Russia went to the stake to have people talking **** about America in forums and rating Moscow as one of the best cities to live in, I have never know if it's true or not... but it's funny

Even with that, you don't hold the entire responsability for your countries actions, yes we all assume some responsability because it is our land, but not to a degree where our country entirely defines who we are. You and I could very well have the same opinion towards that situation and me acting aggresively, unbeknownst that we share the same ideals and just because you are Russian, could potentially influence your views and turn you into an enemy someone who could have been a great ally.

About the later, with such descriptions you make me wish I could visit Russia

Well, I meant that if we keep the actual characteristics of the boats in the game, it won't be very possible to reincarnate them.

And that is sadly right. Since they are so redundant I will just imagine they are coming out of the transport vessels and call it a day

There was, after all, a very high motivation. Potentially very large bonuses from inventions and constant heavy risk.

Heavy risks are on their own a very charming thing, you know everything could go wrong at any minute but thinking that it couldn't is exciting. Some call it stupid, some call it brave... I call it both.

It's like the Russian jokes about rampant drinking and four tons of vodka. Actually, I need five.

The difference is that this one is true, right? If it is there is nothing to worry really, if we in my country were as known as Russia, people would make the same jokes about us... even worse!

I'm afraid I might disappoint you. For all my talkativeness, I have a habit of periodically falling out of the surrounding reality and any communication, having found something interesting. As my sister used to say in her youth, "my brother is in Mongolia." There's a steppe nearby, lots of interesting archaeology, and nomads are always interesting.

Wait, have you met nomads?That's so cool! Long ago we stopped having people who kept the traditions alive in this country, by time I was born sadly all of that was already gone. The little we have left of ''traditional'' are Haitians, and while I enjoy sharing with them, that has little to nothing to do with what is truly indigenous of this island.

Sounds like you were born in a very interesting and diverse place, where exactly is it? if you don't mind telling, I suppose is somewhere to the south given what you said.

By the way, I'm sorry for the slow answers - I'm not very fast at writing texts, and it's often quite time-consuming to clean up the results of auto-translation from obvious nonsense.

Don't be worried, I also take very long to write this specially because I get in and out of my computer due to a long list of reasons, I also like to keep things as clever as possible and that means I have to put effort into this, after all, just like you english is not my native tongue

A philosopher is a philosopher, and he is above boring details.

What's his/her name btw? I'm curious and I'd like to read more

Well, it was written in Russian. The word "monstrous", as you know, outside of a specific context, means simply going beyond any bounds of mundane rationality, let's say.

To better clarify: Monstrous is a word that stands for more than one thing, here like you say monstrous is not so much a fantasious disgusting thing, but something so big that it is intimidating. For example some of us here are used to call a big dog (such as a Rottweiler) a ''monster'' because despite being beautiful, lovely, innocent or even playful they also have the capacity to inflict fear and crunch something in such a way that what once was a cute animal ends up being MONSTRUOUS. @yurv3

A very fitting terminology for the Russian empireYou just gotta know how to interpret it the right away.

The biggest "problem" with large nations/empires was (and still is) their bad habit of threatening/terrorizing smaller countries - and their "willingness" for using force to get "things" go their way. So no, the Russian Empire was historically neither better nor worse than other large countries at their time. And for that matter: Quite a few nations have unfortunately not changed their position much over time (no one mentioned and no one forgotten).

But it should not be a secret that I personally hope, that democracy and not least "the common sense" will prevail over autocracy in the long run - not for my or my children's sake - that's proberly too late - but then for the sake of my grandchildren.

Yes, you are right here, everytime someone confronts the past deeds of a country I always say the same, if it wasn't them then someone else would have. And yes intimidation and ruthless conquest are probably the biggest sins of any empire, but it is the most natural too so to a certain extent we can't judge Russians for that because if they didn't expand... someone else would have, and that someone would have eventually gone for them

Does that justify their actions? of course not, but it stops us from dehumanizing them, which is something sadly most people do. The problem with this is that if we dehumanize someone, we won't find humane ways to deal with them... which leads to nothing good.

As the world has modernized itself to a degree enough for diplomacy to triumph over war, I also hope that more benign ways of leadership and problem resolution are achieved. War still happens, but of course! nevertheless peace has been proven to be possible, therefore we should be able to achieve it.

I don't think countries have to be necessarily democratic (despite that is the system I support), anything that works is good, at least for me as long as people live at peace and happy anything goes.

I still don't have children, but I plan to have them on the future and since I was a child I have been taught to prioritize for the future as that's what matters at the end of the day, so this last statement resonates deep within me.

 

[pecheneg]

The biggest "problem" with large nations/empires was (and still is) their bad habit of threatening/terrorizing smaller countries - and their "willingness" for using force to get "things" go their way...
But it should not be a secret that I personally hope, that democracy and not least "the common sense" will prevail over autocracy in the long run - not for my or my children's sake - that's proberly too late - but then for the sake of my grandchildren.

Yes, everyone here remembers how the Danish parliament unanimously voted for democratic intervention in Libya and the downright hyperactivity of the Scandinavian democracies in delivering peaceful strikes. However, discussing democratic peacefulness will take us very far, so I will not respond to the next post. Similarly, Walter can erase this post that does not correspond to local ideas about freedom of speech without any offense from my side.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

What's a puppy state anyway? first time I hear the term... honestly it sounds funny

Puppet state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I did find 3d model online for a T-4 though on another page, but that made me wonder... what are your views towards modding using someone else's assets? I mean, do you prefer to have permission from the author of these assets first or you just do as you want? I've had some trouble in the past with these ethical dilemmas of modding I try to be as respectful as possible, but sometimes I use things without asking first.

I think the consensus here on CFC is that everything posted here is good to use in your own mods unless explicitly stated otherwise (which I don't think I saw more than once or twice in all this time), whereas if I want to use the assets from mods for other games, where the community consensus might be different, I always ask for permission. More often than not people are glad to share, and sometimes even go out of their way to help - for instance, the author of Napoleonic Wars mod for Cossacks 3 kindly shared the source model files for their units to save me a lot of conversion work.

Similarly, Walter can erase this post that does not correspond to local ideas about freedom of speech without any offense from my side.

I cannot erase anything as I am just as much a regular user as you are! All I can do is kindly ask you all to discuss politics and culture in a different thread here on CFC - as recent experience shows, even if we try sticking only to RI matters, relevant stuff can easily get lost with how active this thread has become.

 

[pecheneg]

I thought that the one who created the topic on the CFC had more rights regarding his thread.

All I can do is kindly ask you all to discuss politics and culture in a different thread here on CFC -

Yes, I totally agree. There are so many other wonderful places to discuss the Stupendously Important Issues. And there's so little to discuss about the galleon. Moreover, I'm going to tell some people about "Yamato" hydrophones for the second week. It is unbearable when someone is wrong in the field of anti-submarine defense.

 

[JDCP]

Puppet state - Wikipedia

Oh that's what they meant... I hear puppy and I think about a dog I guess tributary is for early ages and puppet for later ones, just like changing names and flags this is another well received implementation on my end!

About the modding thing, that I didn't read but until I got the opportunity to edit this message, sounds very good. It's nice to know people here are more permissive with the assets they upload, I know some modding communities were most modders can be bothersome with that.

Moreover, I'm going to tell some people about "Yamato" hydrophones for the second week.

Cool , I crave for more IJA and IJN information, as far as I know they had a brief period of naval superiority over Americans, maybe wrong given the results of Midway, but I know their ships were equipped with amazing weaponry if I recall.

 

[pecheneg]

Do you mind if we move our "big" discussions to private messages? Among other things, local moderators regularly commit acts of democratic struggle for freedom of speech. And yes, I'm afraid I won't be able to give you a detailed answer right away - there's a GULAG work, and I exhausted all the limits on chatter on the Internet a week ago. . It is clear that there is a Russian principle: "if work gets in the way of drinking, quit this job," But as I mentioned, I have BIG plans for the New Year.

Cool , I crave for more IJA and IJN information,

P.S. But I'll tell you about the Japanese right awayI don't really know much about them.

 

[pecheneg]

IJA and IJN information,

1. All Japanese warships of special construction carried hydrophones, including Yamato and co.
2. The fact is that some of the same battleships of the Second World War had their own specific kung fu - they were able to dodge torpedoes using data from hydrophones / noise direction finders.
3. At the same time, it is clear that the battleships' own noises were enormous, and this worked only in the closest zone. And since the submarines for some reason did not try to ram the battleships... the battleships could only hear them standing or at low speed.
4. Naturally, Japanese aircraft carriers were also equipped with hydrophones. More notably, starting with the thing that floats right in the RI, japanese began to put full-fledged sonars on them. At the same time, sonars were installed on the entire range of aircraft carriers, including, as far as I know, escort vessels converted from civilian vessels.
5. Outside Japan, hydrophones and sonar were installed on Bismarck-class battleships. Scharnhorst-class definitely had direction finders. The English King George-class was equipped with sonar/ASDIC during modernization, and the same planning was carried out on the Lion type. On unfinished Soviet battleships, the hydrophones were removed during the "simplification of the project" due to pre-war time constraints.
However, this was far from the final stage of design, and therefore further adventures of hydrophones are questionable..Similarly, according to all conceivable logic, the British should have had hydrophones, and the Scharnhorst could hardly have done without sonars.
However, it seems that people who write about big guns and thick armor don't really like things that are lighter than a cast-iron bridge . And if they are still ready to tolerate radars as an application to guns, then it is absolutely difficult with hydro acoustics. There is no such thing in a typical description; in a "solid" one, see "King George". So that's the list, probably, very much incomplete.

 

[Jaded1]

There is a problem with 'New Random Seed' on reload Option in the 3.7 update. When you select it, and start a new game, it will stay around until you exit Civ. Then, when you reload, the option will no longer be active. Even if you reload the Initial Save, under Auto saves, it is still missing. I monitored it over a few games, checking the Victory Conditions Settings Tab, It was there for hours while playing but once you exit out, and restart, it's gone.

 

[JDCP]

There is a problem with 'New Random Seed on reload' Option in the 3.7 update. When you select it and start a new game it will stay around until you exit Civ. Then, when you reload, the option will no longer be active. Even if you reload the Initial Save under Auto saves it is still missing. I monitored it over a few games checking the Victory Conditions Settings Tab. I was there for hours while playing but once you exit out, and restart, it's gone.

This is true, I performed many tests pitting several warriors and finding huts in the map, upon restarting the game those that were already placed or fought had random outcomes, the ones that would be placed later on or put to fight didn't and kept giving the same results. The setting indeed disables upon restarting the game.

I don't use this setting but I can see the appeal.

Do you mind if we move our "big" discussions to private messages? Among other things, local moderators regularly commit acts of democratic struggle for freedom of speech. And yes, I'm afraid I won't be able to give you a detailed answer right away -

Sure!

I have BIG plans for the New Year.

As we all should!

P.S. But I'll tell you about the Japanese right awayI don't really know much about them.

This information is very interesting, I think Japan should have it's own naval UU! Or even a Zero plane as UU! I know they weren't the best WW2 planes by a long mile, yet they are one of the most iconic ones.

Now that I think of it, I don't know if this is right to say or portray in a game as it is honestly disgusting, but even then... how would it be if we had a ''martyr'' doctrine that, with a special promotion and the presence of cult of personality (or any civic based on fanatism) made some fighters cause massive damage when air striking at the cost of losing it.

It sounds like a tough thing to balance, or maybe even to code, but it would be realistic right? a very charming leader could trick its men into such maneuver, maybe give some penalties for being the one to have this doctrine like less happiness in all cities or make it go obsolete. I would sh*t my ass if I saw planes with a promotion like that on an enemy city. What do you think @Walter Hawkwood?

as far as I know, escort vessels converted from civilian vessels.

A civilian vessel used on war... where have I heard this before?

it seems that people who write about big guns and thick armor don't really like things that are lighter than a cast-iron bridge

Only the heaviest contraptions cause the heaviest costs in damages how else would they have sunk the mighty Yamato if not with such massive artillery?

1. All Japanese warships of special construction carried hydrophones, including Yamato and co.

If this is so why couldn't they eliminate the American submarines that sunk so many of their ships? Weren't hydrophones good enough?

 

[TheBirdMan]

s soon as we get ourselves a place for this kind of talk, I look forward hearing of you, also I can't wait to try out your modmod, will it work with 3.7?

Sure it will - I'm only "working" with the xml-code. But first the official version has to be played through a time or 2 before I "decide" which parts I want to move over and what has become "obsolete".

 

[Hafenguy]

It is one of the best maps to play and I agree with you that this game can be very exciting specially when your enemies are more powerful and you gotta use your units carefully, 4d chess for dummies never give up in a war because nothing in this game feels more rewarding than surviving an invasion!

I will never surrender. For the glory of the vikings!

Maybe I there will be a possibility in the future to hit the phillipines hard and be successful in this conflict. Dont know that the Renaissance and modern times will bring.

 

[pecheneg]

As we all should!

Yes!

This information is very interesting, I think Japan should have it's own naval UU! Or even a Zero plane as UU!

The fact is that the Japanese have Zero in RI, just under their own Japanese name. And under the more famous brand Zero among the Austronesians.

Now that I think of it, I don't know if this is right to say or portray in a game as it is honestly disgusting, but even then... how would it be if we had a ''martyr'' doctrine that, with a special promotion and the presence of cult of personality (or any civic based on fanatism) made some fighters cause massive damage when air striking at the cost of losing it.

It sounds like a tough thing to balance, or maybe even to code,

Well, in fact, the "massive" kamikazes were not random pilots who rammed the ship, but specialized units. In particular, because the same "Zero" in the standard version was poorly suited for such attacks – 2 bombs of 60 kg each were not serious.As a result, kamikaze planes were redesigned almost from the very beginning (after the first "amateur" attacks).: The guns were removed and a "stationary" 250 kg bomb was placed without the possibility of a normal discharge. Then there were very special modifications and this.

Especially in the picture, I am pleased with the "baka" (in Japanese, "fool") instead of the actual "Okha".
It's in one of the mods – Red Force.
In general, by slightly adjusting the XML, you can get a kind of cruise missile with the appearance of a "Zero" or a "specialist".At the same time, the Japanese also had exploding boats and man-torpedoes.And the non-Japanese had quite a few options for a "one-time unit" with the rescue of the pilot. Moreover, the Germans came to the successful practical use of remotely controlled exploding boats back in the First World War, and the second one is very far from just V-1/2 and speedboats. The most exotic is "Mistel".

There were also kamikaze ground tankettes.

P.S. I will temporarily not put this under the spoiler, "Mistel" is beautiful... in its own way. Plus, the above offer is for modmod.

 

[pecheneg]

A civilian vessel used on war... where have I heard this before?

Well, you can hear it about almost any country and era.

Spoiler :

Only the heaviest contraptions cause the heaviest costs in damages how else would they have sunk the mighty Yamato if not with such massive artillery?

In reality, Yamato was sunk by bombs and aerial torpedoes. The Americans "only" deployed almost four hundred aircraft in three waves against the battleship and its escort.

If this is so why couldn't they eliminate the American submarines that sunk so many of their ships? Weren't hydrophones good enough?

Mainly because the organization of the Japanese anti-submarine defense was extremely poor and they did not even realize it. The sinking of a submarine, unlike a surface ship, is poorly controlled. Finally "The Japanese attributed to themselves the sinking of such a number of submarines, which was almost ten times higher than the actual number. Obviously, they didn't see the need to change the methods that they thought were producing such good results." Hydrophones by themselves have a lot of technical limitations, but the Japanese had sonars, and in theory, they could resist much more effectively. However, it is likely that the aesthetic sense of the Japanese was so developed that they simply could not help but write very beautiful reports .

The samurai sat down
Sank a dozen submarines in the report
Why feel sorry for them, the damned Gaijins.

This is hokku! Maybe.

 

[Major Tom]

Hi Walter,
I think the download link in opening post for the manual points to 3.6, not 3.7.
Thanks again for great mod.

 

[pecheneg]

TheBirdMan
Noooo - not now just as I was ready to participate .......

But Ok

Sorry, I got bogged down in long answers and missed your post.

Spoiler :

As for the open topic on the forum, I think you have realized that the discussion there may deviate from the line officially approved on the forum and quickly end with you being rescued from Russian propaganda.
Then only something like a hopeless "comrade Stalin, a monstrous mistake has occurred," etc.
I am from a dictatorship where comments cursing the dictator are not erased even under articles in the state media. Accordingly, I find it difficult to adapt to freedom of speech. For example, I can falsely deny that I was shot every time I used the word "war" in relation to Ukraine.
And, accordingly, to bear a just and deserved punishment from the moderators. For offering to pay reparations to Libya first, I am forever banned from the Ukrainian topic, for example.
And even this act of admiration for real freedom of speech can be condemned as a manifestation of trolling, although the local intensity of democracy sincerely touches me.
Finally, everyone knows that you can only read Western media in Russia with a KGB general's certificate and three commissars behind your back. And I have already given links. So far, this obvious fact has not been noticed, but this is just for now.
Accordingly, if a happy international exchange in the open mode somehow touches politics, then it will be absolutely impossible to avoid the final disclosure of me and the commissars as Russian trolls.That is, it is possible and necessary to open a topic, but it will be possible to communicate openly only on completely neutral topics. Everything else is only in private messages. There is a system of collective correspondence, as far as I understand.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Yes, indeed, if you'd like me to spell this out, if you'd like to discuss politics or any other sensitive subjects that can provoke heated responses, I would appreciate you - and everyone else - please do it anywhere that's not a thread dedicated to discussing a particular mod which happens to be my responsibility. I would like the conversation here to stay polite, and contemporary politics significantly reduces the chances of that. Again, I don't have any special powers here, but this is a direct request to everyone involved. This is simply something I would not like to see here - and I do believe this thread will be somewhat less constructive if I no longer wish to participate in it because it stresses me out instead of relaxing me as a hobby should. Thank you all for your understanding and I hope all of you don't feel your freedoms are infringed too much by me wanting to be able to participate in thread about my mod.

 

[Drakarska]

Aanndddd the dreaded black tiles again. *sigh* The Grinch is having fun again. Time to revisit old threads and try to resolve the issue.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Awww... We never really found the reason nor a solution for that one. I suspect it has something to do with video card drivers, but I think it just went away by itself at some point the previous time?

 

[Jaded1]

With all the 'debating' going on, I'm not sure you saw my post regarding the New Random Seed on Reload option. And that it disables in 3.7 when you exit and reload the game.