Rearranging the Founding Fathers?

[Sherm82]

Hi!
I already fooled around with their order on paper, but I know next to nothing about modding. Would it be possible to change the order in which the FFs appear? Some of them seem to be pretty useless in their current position (e.g. Jacques Marquette, Lewis & Clark, John Harvard etc.).

 

[koma13]

Yes, it's possible.
Look into /Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4FatherInfos.xml. There every FF is listed. Try to change the iCost value.

 

[Sherm82]

Thanks a lot! That worked like a charm.
So if anyone wants to take a look at it, here's my revised order of the FFs (not playtested yet, so criticism regarding their arrangement is appreciated ).

 

[.Spartan]

If it is not an issue a quick reference chart would be nice.

 

[Zuul]

Yea tell the changes. Much easier to check if we like them then.

 

[Sherm82]

You're right. Sorry, should have thought of that.

Exploration
(those were a nightmare to rearrange, because most of them are useful in the beginning and (almost) useless in the later stages of the game)

de Leon
x2 chance to get treasure from ruins

Marquette
+1 movement for scouts

Lewis & Clark
-50 % pioneer equipment needed
+1 movement for wagon trains

de Quesada
reveals all burial grounds and ruins

da Verrazano
1 free Caravel

Cabral
-50% travel time to and from Europe

Smith
-50% cost of land purchases

de Bermudez
+1 movement for Caravels, Merchantmen and Galleons

de Balboa
+25% defense in all settlements

von Humboldt
+50% faster production of colleges and universities


Religion

Brewster
-25% cost of land purchases

de Sepulveda
2 free converted natives

Hooker
3 free Jesuit missionaries

Harvard
free schoolhouse in every settlement

Williams
+25% native conversion rate from missions
better relations with the natives

de las Casas
+50% native conversion rate from missions

Lallemant
+50% faster production of churches and cathedrals

Penn
+3 crosses per town hall
better relations with the natives

Juana
+3 crosses per church and cathedral

de Mattos e Guerra
+2 bells per church
+3 bells per cathedral

Hawthorne
3 free elder statesmen


Trade

Rolfe
+25% tobacco in all settlements

Whitney
+50% cotton in all settlements

Astor
+50% furs in all settlements

Baltimore
cross production increases by the tax rate

de Witt
-50% tools needed for buildings

Hamilton
+3 hammers per town hall

Minuit
-25% recruitment cost in Europe

Smith
+50% faster production of textile mills and coat-, rum-, and cigar factories

McCormick
+1 food on fields with 2 food
+50% sugar in all settlements


Military

Cortes
free stockade in every settlement

Pizarro
free promotion (looter) for gunpowder units

de Cuellar
3 free indentured servants

Powhatan
+50% strength for converted natives

de Soto
free promotion (grenadier I) for gunpowder units

Jones
1 free frigate
+1 awesomeness for Led Zeppelin

de Coronado
+1 movement for dragoons

de Maisonneuve
free promotion (formation) for gunpowder units
+1 movement for converted natives

de LaFayette
gun production increased by the tax rate

Allen
free promotions (ranger I, mountaineer I) for gunpowder units

Pedro I
+50% great general emergence
free promotions (veteran I, minuteman I) for gunpowder and mounted units


Politics

Winthrop
+1 cross per town hall

Pocahontas
better relations with the natives

Paine
hammer production increased by the tax rate

Adams
bell production increased by the tax rate

Ross (weird bonus for the "politics" section)
+3 cloth per weaver's house, weaver's shop and textile mill

Franklin
+3 bells per printing press and newspaper

Henry
+3 bells per town hall

Jay
+25% bells in all settlements

Madison
+3 guns per armory, magazine and arsenal

Irving
+1 bell per schoolhouse
+2 bells per college
+3 bells per university

de Tocqueville
+50% education in all settlements
+3 bells per university

 

[Optimizer]

Exploration advisors get less useful in the endgame since exploration goes too fast, and the whole map can be uncovered before AD 1600.

Increased cost of horses (as in the unofficial patch mod) and decreased emigration of Scouts helps to keep exploration realistically slow.

 

[Zuul]

Maybe balance some of the founding fathers. Which ones are not that good? Like the "da Verrazano 1 free Caravel"

 

[Yashed To]

+1 awesomeness for Led Zeppelin

Huh, I knew they were old, but THAT old ...?!

Most of the changes make a lot of sense to me. Maybe Rolfe could be used to add sugar to the settlements. There isn't hardly any lack of tobacco on the map.

Did anyone give the mod already a try?

 

[Sherm82]

Yeah, some of the FFs could use slightly different bonuses but sadly I have absolutely no idea how to change these things. I can only "mod" (hardly deserves this name) the order in which the FFs appear.
The fast exploration is indeed a pity, since this was one of the parts I enjoyed most in Col1. However I cant't think of a feasible way to slow it down on the current map sizes (but wildlife and a chance of being killed by indians would be a start).

 

[rf900]

The benefits that each FF gives can be modified in the CIV4TraitInfos.xml file. I am now looking at a way to randomize the order or the FFs per game as an option to allow more varied gameplay styles.

 

[Babibo]

I tried your rearrangement yesterday. Very good work, although some FF are still pointless. If any1 is interested in changing some of the FF, I'd suggest introducing some synergies between FF, such that it becomes interesting to beeline for a specific combo.

 

[pajeg]

Most of the changes make a lot of sense to me. Maybe Rolfe could be used to add sugar to the settlements. There isn't hardly any lack of tobacco on the map.

there's cyrrus for the sugar, the col1 map don't lack sugar too^^

 

[rf900]

I have two projects in mind, both related. To alter some FF rewards, or try to balance them and to have an option to play each game with a randomized (or semirandom) FF order.

The first one should be easier and something needed as nearly everyone agrees that some FF are useless, even more at some stages of the game.

If having the order random it will be harder to balance the FFs, one option will be to alter what they give depending on at what time you get them, but this is rushing it a bit.

 

[rf900]

Maybe no need of another thread... here is my view:

Politics

Samuel Adams
Increases Liberty Bell production by the tax rate
Should be placed as one of the later ones

Ben Franklin
+3 Liberty Bells per Printing Press and Newspaper
Ok, any place

Patrick Henry
+3 Liberty Bells per Town Hall
Ok, any place

Washington Irving
+1 Liberty Bell per Schoolhouse
+2 Liberty Bells per College
+3 Liberty Bells per University
Ok, maybe higher benefits (+1,+3,+6)

John Jay
+25% Liberty Bells per settlement
Ok

James Madison
+3 Guns per Armory, Magazine, and Arsenal
Ok, too good early on maybe the benefit should depend on placement (early +1, middle +2, latter +3)

Thomas Paine
Increases hammer production by the tax rate
Should be placed as one of the later ones

Pocahontas
Strengthens relations with the natives
Early on, how good is it?

Betsy Ross
+3 Cloth from Weaver's House, Weaver's Shop, and Textile Mill
For specialized production, cloth seems to be second common after tobacco. Maybe the benefit should be greater for it to be useful (+9)

Alexis de Tocqueville
+50% education in every settlement
+3 Liberty Bells per University
Ok

John Winthrop +1 Cross per Town Hall
Should depend on where it is placer (Early +3, Middle +5, Latter +7)?


Exploration

Vaco Nunez de Balboa
+25% defense per settlement
Ok

Juan de Bermudez
+1 movement for Caravels, Merchantmen, and Galleons
Ok, better early on

Pedro Alvares Cabral
Sailing to and from Europe takes 50% less time
Ok, early on, overall not good enough

Alexander von Humboldt
+50% production of College and University
IMO Mediocre, to be changed

Juan Ponce de Leon
Twice as likely to receive Treasure from Ancient Ruins
Very early on only

Lewis and Clark
Pioneers require 50% less Tools
+1 movement for Wagon Trains
IMO Mediocre, to be changed

Jacques Marquette
+1 movement for Scouts
Very early on only

Gonzalo Jimenez de Quesada
Reveals all tiles containing Burial Grounds or Ancient Ruins
Very early on only

John Smith
Native lands cost 50% less to purchase
Ok

Giovanni de Verrazano
Provides 1 Caravel
Useful early on, maybe a Merchantman


Religion

William Brewster
Native land costs 25% less to purchase
Ok, John Smith is better though, needs balance

Bartolome de las Casas
+50% native conversion rate from Missions
Ok

John Harvard
Free Schoolhouse for each settlement
Ok

Nathanial Hawthorne
Provides 3 Elder Statesmen
Ok

Thomas Hooker
Provides 3 Jesuit Missionaries
Ok

Sor Juana
+3 Crosses per Church and Cathedral
Ok, depends on placement (Early +3, Middle +5, Latter +7) for example

Gabriel Lallemant
+50% production of Church and Cathedral
Only useful early/middle and not too much, needs change

Gregorio de Mattos e Guerra +2 Liberty Bells per Church
+3 Liberty Bells per Cathedral
Ok?

William Penn
+3 Crosses per Town Hall
Strengthens relations with the natives
Ok

Juan de Sepulveda Provides 2 converted natives
Ok, better early on, maybe more 4 natives

Roger Williams
+25% conversion rate from Missions
Strengthens relations with the natives
Ok


Trade

John Jacob Astor
+50% Furs per settlement
Ok

Lord Baltimore
Increases Cross production by the tax rate
Ok, latter game

Alexander Hamilton
+3 hammers per Town Hall
Ok

Cyrus McCormick
+1 food on plots with at least 2 food
+50% Sugar per settlement
Ok, very good one IMO

Peter Minuit
Units cost 25% less to purchase in Europe
Too good, depends on placement of FF but it should be a minor reduction 10-15%

John Rolfe
+25% Tobacco per settlement
How about been +50%

Adam Smith
+50% production of Textile Mill, Coat Factory, Rum Factory, and Cigar Factory
Is this usefull? needs change

Eli Whitney
+50% Cotton per settlement
Ok

Jan de Witt
50% fewer Tools needed to construct buildings
Pretty good IMO


Military

Ethan Allen
Free promotion of Ranger I and Mountaineer I for Gunpowder Units
Ok

Francisco de Coronado
+1 movement for Dragoons
Ok

Hernan Cortes
Free Stockade for each settlement
Ok, early on only

Diego Velazquez de Cuellar Provides 3 indentured servants
Ok, could be more 4

Marquis de La Fayette
Increases Gun production by the tax rate
Ok, late game

John Paul Jones
Provides 1 Frigate
Ok

Paul Chomeday de Maisonneuve Free promotion of Formation for Gunpowder Units
+1 movement for converted natives
Ok

Dom Pedro I
+50% Great General emergence
Free promotion of Veteran I and Minuteman I for Gunpowder and Mounted Units
Ok

Francisco Pizarro Free promotion of Looter for Gunpowder Units
Ok, small benefit

Chief Powhatan
+50% strength for converted natives
Useful?

Hernado de Soto
Free promotion of Grenadier I for Gunpowder Units
Ok

 

[Onionsoilder]

Huh, I knew they were old, but THAT old ...?!

Most of the changes make a lot of sense to me. Maybe Rolfe could be used to add sugar to the settlements. There isn't hardly any lack of tobacco on the map.

Did anyone give the mod already a try?

Try the Faireweather mapscript. Really, it is the best mapscript ever. On that map as well, there is enough of everything. Instead of everything being randomly placed, it actually generates climate zones, such as regions of desert, marsh, grassland, mountian ranges...

It is simply awesome.

 

[jenks]

see this thread for a Mod incorporating this notion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7502212#post7502212






working on a full rework of the FF, adjusting position and value in game if anyone is interested in contributing ideas / feedback

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7486655#post7486655

 

[jenks]

by the way i'd love feedback if anybody has any!

70 downloads since yesterday and no suggestions - the list I designed can't be perfect can it?!

Mod summary:
* Strategic decisions (all of the Founding Fathers have now been granted usefulness in-game so are more balanced)
* Historical accuracy (Hernan Cortes 'famed conquistador and slayer of the Aztecs' no longer gives you a free stockade, pilgrim leader William Brewster no longer gives a discount when buying indian land)
* Improved AI (the computer no longer takes only the weak Fathers which you refuse)
* Aggressive natives (untrained colonist religious missions fail more often, and there are less modifiers to Indian relations)
* Religious migration (crosses, churches and cathedrals are now all easier to produce & focus upon, so migration has more value)
* Harvest raw materials (no nearby villages training planters for that prime resource near your town? Get the corresponding trade Father and bring one over from Europe)
* The 'French Intervention' (at some expense and likely late in the War of Independance, Founding Father Benjamin Franklin will now bring reinforcements from Europe)
CivFanatics download link v1.00