Rebase WH on FFH?

[Ploeperpengel]

The question is should we rebase WH on FFH since there a re so many flavorfull features we could use or intregate wanted features seperatly? It might be easier to list here what we don't need instead of what we need but I give some examples. Also please check for updates by me and give suggestions yourselves what we can use and what not. This is a request to the design team(or whole team) please search FFH for spells that fit to WH magic. Please contribute ideas! Here's the Designthread for FFH spells:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159353
Sources:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190381

Wanted:
-Talchas spellsystem. Magic is developed to a high degree in FFH and could be easily adapted for WH. I.e. I don't like the way we handle spellbooks atm as domain air units to load into a "carrier". It's much more elegant and intuitive to use promotions instead. A domain immobile "unit" like a spell book or magic item can be picked up, the itemunit gets destroyed and grants a promotion to the unit that picked up the item. The item also can be dropped tearing of the promotion(which is a spell or any other effect) and recreating the itemunit.
In general we can use FFH mechanics to aquire all sorts of desired effects like increase a units strength via promotion or free unitupgrades(which we thought impossible earlier in our herodesign now we could also mount/dismount a hero)
-We have many spells in FFH already created and known to work so no need to reinvent the wheel.
-Fire: Hellterrainscript and art for our chaos terrain.
-Fire: Armageddon counter - can be used for Winds of Magic since that counter can rise and drop by any kind of event it's much more flexible than a one direction commerce. We can use it to trigger events like warpstorms, deamonspawning, chaos mutations i.e. The counter could rise by building chaosreligionbuilding and chaosgates. It could be lowered by simply casting spell to a small degree, "good" wonders like the standing stones can lower the counter by one each turn etc.
Sheaim will be granted units from gates depending on the Armageddon counter. Very nicely fitting to Chaosdeamons.
-FFH Khazad get certain advantages(mostly happiness) if they hoard gold- very fitting for WH Dwarfes too.
-Barrows create barbarian Skeletons(see coderequest for details how we can adapt part of that but already the initial setup of barrows on the map is very flavorful)


Not wanted:
-Fire: In FFH Fire units are given religious promotions(maybe we can find a use for religious promotions i.e. for deamons too, but) I don't think we can use the mechanic of hell and heaven: whenever a unit dies it's checked if it's got a religious promotion. If that Religion is "good" the unit becomes an angel in the ranks of the mercurian civ, if it has been evil it becomes a mane for the Infernals.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

this is what i have been hoping for for a long time i think it is a great idea and would immensly reduce the load on out programmers

Things we could adapt:
1. the spell system in FfH would definately work wonders. like i mentioned before, the casual player will not care how the spells are cast, (ie promotions or spellbooks) what they care about is the effect of the spells, the flavour and the ideas behind the spells. if we use the promotion consept, it would require less of Olleus's time and resourses in "recreating the wheel" as ploe so eligantly put it, and alow us to finish the implementation of the spells sooner
@ Olleus, the only drawback i can see with this it the transfering of the code youve done on Our spells in the magic book system into the promotion system. i cant imagine it would be TOO hard, but correct me if im wrong

2. the terreforming in FfH is also good. we could use the Fellowship of the Leaves ancient forests spreading as a racial benefit for the Woodelves. (posibly also for Highelves, but to a lesser degree.) the Hellterain, like Ploe said, would be perfect for the Chaos deamons (im wondering if we should divide chaos into 3 civs, (beasts of Chaos, Hordes of Chaos and Deamons of Chaos) each could spread varying degrees of 'Hell'.
use this conjsept to allow Skaven to sprea Swamp, Lizardmen to spread jungle, Dwarves to alter hills and mountains to dwarven versions etcetc.
of course, one drawback of this is that it would be almost impossible to have some form of terreforming for every civ, so perhaps it would be better just to have wonders that spread terrain, or religions.

3. The Hero system. oh the hero system! i love the hero system in FfH. we can use the Hero promotion here in the same way, 'all' we need to do is creat the units. Sigmar for the Empire, Durthu for the Woodelves, Malekith for the Darkelves, Skarsnik for the Skaven. we could even make the heroes as living versions of the leaders.
we could make each civ have 2 leaders, and when one civ starts a game wit hone leader, they start the game with a hero of thier other leader. (ie, if i were to play as Woodelves, as Isha, i would start with an orion hero.
thses thatring heores would be 'weak' and then as the civ progresses, techs and buildings and wonders add improvement to the hero.
( i know, this is not at all like the FfH hero system, im just thinking aloud )

4. the world units concept is definately needed. world limit of 1-2 dragons per civ, 3 treemen for woodelves, 3 Girocopters for Dwarves, unlimited Goblin spearmen for Gobbos, etc etc.

Things that arnt needed:
1. ill get back you you later i cant think of any at the moment

 

[Ploeperpengel]

2.Terraforming as you said would work well with ancient forests for the elves, jungles for the lizards. I'm not sure about the dwarves and other civs. I don't think we need special terraforming for all civs. The chaos terrain is my main concern. Also jungles and forests wouldn't need a new terrain they are just features Almost any civ could get access to some kind of limited terraforming aquired with spellcasters/special workers(dwarfminers i.e.) though(like FFH Druids) to slowly work the soil into something that suits them.

3.The herosystem shouldn't be taken 1:1 imo. But free upgrades for heros with certain techs/wonders/buildings would be nice. Mechanics for this are already in FFH as well.

4.That's vanilla and already in WH for many units

 

[Arexack_heretic]

one problem though is that FfH is vanilla and not warlords.

We'd need to convert to warlords anyhow, so it might be better to continue as now, lending bits and pieces off FfH instead of abandoning work done and 'modding the mod'.

I agree on copying much of the FfH mechanisms, especially the use of promotions as unit properties and such things are quite elegantly done.


I don't think the 'hell'terrain should be chaos 'culture' ground.
Maybe at 95-100% saturated locations (warpgates etc).

I guess overall 50-95%rawmagic saturated terrain could be chaotic and with that I mean (if possible) a chance of tiles changing randomly to any terraintype (+any feature) including hell-terrain or ancient forest.
Most chaos-occupied terrain (<50%) should be 'normal' with maybe chaotic totem improvements and such poluting the land with raw-magic output.



Using spells only upsets the naturall order of the world, not increase it.

Getting rid of Magic:
I guess rawmagic will naturally dissipate back to a background level (only emanating strongly from the poles) when no Chaotic buildings are built or spells are cast. Otherwise greatwonders such as capturing and entombing the Book of the Dead or destroying powerfull items/mages/demons/etc could decrease the chaoscounter.

Chaos buildings generate a small fraction of the 'polution' that the poles generate. (warpstone meteorites are independent emitters)
Winds of magic emanating from the warpgates cause the efficiency of some magical items/buildings/beings to fluctuate.
Chaos demons detract from the general warpflux when they are summoned,
however they spread it locally wherever they go. This way, if a large enough force of demons is camping just outside a woodelf border, terrain may start to flux even in there. (This would however require a great host indeed!)

I am arguing a polution-like magicwind/warp-influence on whether chaos-blasted terrain should appear, but maybe you'd rather just make it a 'chance to appear' kind of thing?

This would allow Chaotic terrain to appear also in heavy magic using civs, that neglect to research or build 'sanitizing' things.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

for the hell terrain:
if we did adopt what AH proposed, that Hell terrain can appear anywhere where the Raw magic levels are high enough, or where Warpstone is in abundance, we would also heve to allow some unit to 'work' that square to "seal the Rift" that has appeared into the Chaos Warp. im thinking either priests could sanctify the square, or mages to 'sacrifice' themselves in order to build a minor version of the Standing Stones (which drains magic from the area, thus weakaning Chaos and closing the rift.) these mini-magic-drains could also be a tool that civs can use to prevent the spread of Chaos RIfts into thier realms, if they wish. (thinking the Way Stones in Athel Loren which direct the flow of Magic into an orderly web, or the monoliths in Ulthuan which do a similar thing)

@ Ploe: i agree with #2, but i dont quite follow #3...