RedCoat and Cossack Nerf - Does It Go Too Far?

[DarkSchneider]

Reads like you have to overthink the difficulty you normally play on. A significant tech lead of a whole era (like whole renaissance) sounds like you need a step up. Where's the challenge otherwise?

Then maybe you'll have use for redcoats

I haven't played Civ in awhile, and when I was playing the chop nerf wasn't in so I relied heavily on it. I would generally play games on Monarch if I was trying a 'no-reload' game and on Emporer otherwise. I tried Immortal once but found it very stressful, I think I might have been able to pull out a victory with extensive saving/reloading but wasn't having much fun and decided to pull the plug on it.

I think my next game I might try Korea, as they seem to have an excellent combination of traits for the way I play. It's too bad they had to nerf the English though, since I wanted to try out Red Coats myself for awhile.

 

[Wodan]

Back to Redcoat and Cossack, IMO half of their usefulness is WHEN they come in the game. Long enough that you can build a financial powerhouse capable of withstanding a serious push for world conquest, and early enough that if you don't quite win the game right then, you are still in good shape for another push later (in other words, the UU isn't too late to seriously affect the game, such as Navy Seal etc.)

Wodan

 

[Naismith]

Playing at epic speed, my games are almost always decided by the time cossacks and redcoats come. So while they didn't change the outcome of the game, at least they were fun.

The later a UU comes, the more advantages it should have over the base unit. I would have favored a kinder, gentler nerf.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

No, I don't think it was harsh at all. The Cossack is still very powerful with its bonus against cavalry and it comes earlier than its counter, the Rifleman. It is entirely conceivable for it to be fighting Longbowmen. As for Redcoats...they STILL have their juicy 50% bonus against gunpowder, they just don't do as well against Grenadiers...boohoo, guess you'll have to use combined arms now....

 

[civ_king]

im has anyone said anything about PANZERS im i was germany last game as Bismarck and the PANZERS were SLAUGHTERING the MODERN ARMORS. my rant is over. thank you for your time

 

[Gherald]

Redcoats have never had 50% vs. gunpowder, it's 25%.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Redcoats have never had 50% vs. gunpowder, it's 25%.

Right you are. But they start with the equivalent of a Pinch promotion and can get said promotion. Puts 'em far ahead of vanilla rifles...

 

[MisterBarca]

Right you are. But they start with the equivalent of a Pinch promotion and can get said promotion. Puts 'em far ahead of vanilla rifles...

Regular Riflemen are not valid comparisons for the Redcoats; other UUs are the valid comparisons. And while 25 percent is nothing to scoff at, you have to factor in the late appearance of the Redcoat compared to other UUs (only the Seals and Panzers appear later), as well as their lack of longevity.

 

[Gherald]

Right you are. But they start with the equivalent of a Pinch promotion and can get said promotion. Puts 'em far ahead of vanilla rifles...

Uh, vanilla rifles can get pinch too. It's still just 25%.

 

[SpartanEvolved]

He means that since Redcoats start with the +25% against gunpowder, and can get Pinch, which is another +25% against gunpowder. Which puts them at +50% against gunpowder.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

they needed to be nerfed but so did the Prats, so what if production increases by 5 , but i did go to the xml and made cossacks and redcoats a little better and Prats a little worse

 

[Lucky Charms]

As Antilogic has being saying, a powerful unique unit was fun. I think these two UU's have been nerfed way to harshly. I say 17 and 15 strength for the Cossack and Redcoat respectively, but also a small increase in cost to justify the strength.

 

[curtadams]

What are people *****ing about with the Redcoat nerf? 25% vs. Gunpowder is HUGE because when Redcoats are around about the only fight you ever need a bonus in is against those units - they hardly need a bonus to trash 6 strength longbows. Even as it is they almost beat their counter - Grenadier 12 + 50% = 18 vs. 14 + 25% = 17.5 Anything additional and they beat their counter and that's unacceptable.

 

[Bast]

I'm playing as Catherine right now and I'm popping up Great Generals like every minute thanks to the Great Wall and silly neighbours like Isabella and Ragnar. What this gave me was two Knights which I attached with two Great Generals amongst others I've used in other capacities and when I got Military Tradition made them into Cossacks. They're unbeatable so far. I think I will finish off Isabella.

 

[dankok8]

I think Cossacks were way way overpowered before and needed a nerf, but I would have given them a strength of 16 along with the bonus vs. mounted. Right now, they are very vulnerable to Riflemen and have same odds vs. Longbowmen as regular cavalry.

Redcoats, OTOH, are still pretty darn good with Churchill, better than Redcoats were before the nerf with Liz or Vicky. With a Barracks and Theocracy/Vassalage with Churchill, you can get CG1, Drill2, Pinch out of the gate on top of inherent +25% vs. Gunpowder. +50% vs. Gunpowder and Drill 2 means you'll be cutting through the enemy (even Grenadiers when you are attacking) like a hot knife through butter even with limited Cannon support. The reason Redcoats were nerfed is that they were absolutely unstoppable with Churchill so a nerf was in order.

 

[Gooblah]

WTH did u go necromancing a two-year-old thread for? Jesus, Dankok.

Anyways, it's all good. They're still uber-strong.

 

[dankok8]

What does it matter for?!?

I ran across it as I was looking for "Cossacks" trying to find a thread for how people used them after their nerf - i.e. a situation where they can be really useful. I ran across this thread instead and yea .. I posted.

 

[Mercenary82]

I don't really use cossacks like I used to anymore after the nerf. I used to beeline to it and spam them everywhere, now they are just a secondary compenent of my army used to counter cavalry and cannons, and I don't make teching to MT a priority anymore. I wish they left them with 18 strength and took away the 50% against mounted instead, then they would still be useful as a fast moving force capable of capturing cities on their own.

 

[Mad2rix]

If I get raped by these un-nerfed UUs, then I'll be shot dead like a fish in a barrel.