Regent Succession Game

[MinutiaRules]

Some further thoughts:

I'm thinking that alphabet for bronze working and 10 gold is a pretty good deal, especially since the Romans already have alphabet.

Referring to Optional's ideas how about taking the Celts pots trade then try a pots for BW with Rome? Rome could balk but at least we'll have pots which we probably need sooner rather than later. I would however protect writing to slow down the AI as much as possible. It also needs to be considered that possibly construction (after MM, for aquaducts) has started to take on some importance.

Probably want to get another curragh out soon to help explore the area between the Romans and Celts (can't tell if they're on the same island yet) while the northern curragh explores the northern Celtic coast for more contacts.

Sounds reasonable.

Rome looks like the best first target due to proximity. Will likely want to establish a beachhead on the Roman island as soon as we can and as long as there is adequate room to do so. Hopefully they don't have any iron or we can knock them out before they are able to hook it up.

Well the situation certainly has started to crystalize. I do have to admit that I'm a total conquests rookie however (never played for one). But what seems to make sense is that we build granaries in Trondheim and Bergen, barracks where we'll put out ground units (especially where we build TSOZ), some harbors and as stated above aquaducts. And all the while be preparing for an invasion. That's a lot of production! We don't appear to be be rich in shields. What to do? Well, do we absolutely need TGLH? I initially thought that we would build it in Trondhein or Bergen but is that necessary now? Certainly it will come in handy but could we relegate it to another city?

 

[EvilConqueror]

Referring to Optional's ideas how about taking the Celts pots trade then try a pots for BW with Rome? Rome could balk but at least we'll have pots which we probably need sooner rather than later. I would however protect writing to slow down the AI as much as possible. It also needs to be considered that possibly construction (after MM, for aquaducts) has started to take on some importance.

Trading alphabet and 2gpt to the Celts for pottery and then trying to trade pottery to the Romans for bronze working does sound better than just trading alphabet for bronze working.

I'm not eager to trade away writing either but we could trade alphabet and 2gt to the Celts for pottery. Writing to Celts for ceremonial burial and then hopefully writing to the Romans for bronze working. That would get us all the available techs and maybe some gold as well.

Either way would be fine with me.

Well the situation certainly has started to crystalize. I do have to admit that I'm a total conquests rookie however (never played for one). But what seems to make sense is that we build granaries in Trondheim and Bergen, barracks where we'll put out ground units (especially where we build TSOZ), some harbors and as stated above aquaducts. And all the while be preparing for an invasion. That's a lot of production! We don't appear to be be rich in shields. What to do? Well, do we absolutely need TGLH? I initially thought that we would build it in Trondhein or Bergen but is that necessary now? Certainly it will come in handy but could we relegate it to another city?

Rome and the Celts are both annoying to fight if they have iron. Legionaries (3/3/1) are tough to dislodge and Gallic Swordsman (3/2/2) and their retreat ability are tough to knock out. If we don't have iron ourselves, sending stacks of archers against them is going to get really bloody.

It doesn't appear that we'd put the Great Lighthouse to much use for a while. We can invade both Rome and the Celts with galleys without a problem. And they're close enough that an extra movement point is not going to make much, if any difference. You make a good point about the Statue of Zeus. The SOZ may actually be more helpful to us considering that we're so low in shields.

In terms of general production, I'd also like to see us get the granaries done and fit in one or two barracks. Maybe a harbor. If we have iron, start cranking out swordmen as soon as we can. If we don't, start producing a good amount of archers. In terms of galleys, we'll probably only need one or two for our force. We should be able to assemble our force on the other island before we declare and then two galleys should be enough for sending over replacement units that we produce (assuming we have a road to the ivory east of our capital by then).

In a situation like this, I'd normally attack the Romans with a moderate force to get rid of a few of their cities and then make peace when my force gets worn down. But the "can't make peace until the civ is eliminated rule" is going to make that tactic dangerous in this game. If we get worn down and can't produce enough replacements quicky, we could get pushed off the island (especially if we end up facing legionaries).

 

[Optional]

I'm not eager to trade away writing either but we could trade alphabet and 2gt to the Celts for pottery. Writing to Celts for ceremonial burial and then hopefully writing to the Romans for bronze working.

Lurker's comment: If you're willing to trade Writing, but want to avoid paying gpt, You can trade Alphabet to the Celts for Bronze Working, and then use Writing to get Pottery from them.
I can't see how you would miss being the first to get Philosophy anyway, so trading Writing might not be so bad. Getting Bronze Working might be useful for having the ability to perhaps snap up Iron Working with Philosophy.
I'm sure both Rome and Celts will research Iron Working for you, I'm just not sure how quick they will be with that on this level.

It's a bit of a questionmark for me as well whether you would really want the Great Lighthouse. It allows trading over sea tiles, but you've got two lux anyway, the ability to use 2 MP per town, and Feudalism brings that to 3, so you wouldn't be that desperate for lux trades at all. And where will you build the Statue of Zeus when you're sacrificing one of your best towns for the Lighthouse?

Interesting game. Have you still got a place on the roster, Daeron?

 

[EvilConqueror]

Lurker's comment: If you're willing to trade Writing, but want to avoid paying gpt, You can trade Alphabet to the Celts for Bronze Working, and then use Writing to get Pottery from them.
I can't see how you would miss being the first to get Philosophy anyway, so trading Writing might not be so bad. Getting Bronze Working might be useful for having the ability to perhaps snap up Iron Working with Philosophy.
I'm sure both Rome and Celts will research Iron Working for you, I'm just not sure how quick they will be with that on this level.

Only downside is that we'll likely not get ceremonial burial that way. I don't think they'd trade two monopoly techs for writing. I guess it really boils down to whether we want to pay 2gpt for CB now or trade for it later.

 

[MinutiaRules]

I'd like to clarify my view about the tech race. I'm not thinking as much in terms of getting Philosophy first as in not helping the AI get to MM. I've player archi maps where I've gotten to MM first, didn't trade at all with AI to that point, and had dominance of the seas for quite a bit of time. However I recognize it isn't as clear cut in this game because of our slow production potential. So if we do trade Writing perhaps its worth the risk of waiting for the AI to get iron working in return?

 

[Daeron]

Only just got home after a nightshift. So there will be plenty of time for input, since I need my sleep desperately.

Interesting game. Have you still got a place on the roster, Daeron?

If you're interested, you'd be more than welcome. Your input has been great so far.

 

[Calis]

I think that Pottery is the only tech we need soon. So go for that with the Celts. Anything alse we can think about later, when we've met other tribes. Might make some other techs cheaper. during that time, we can research the high cost techs and buy the others later.

 

[MinutiaRules]

The Roman city of Antium is oddly empty:

That's probably their second city. If there are no barbs and an AI hasn't contacted anyone yet they will send out unprotected settlers. I've also seen where when they do finally contact someone if the settler hasn't settled yet they will freeze it until an escort arrives.

 

[Daeron]

We've still got 7 turns towards Philosophy, but I agree we could use granaries. They pay for themselves in Trondheim and Bergen.

 

[Daeron]

I've played through my first 9 turns so far. We're up Philosophy, Map Making, Bronze Working and Pottery.

I had to go for the 2gpt deal with the Celts.

We can get IW and 10 gold from the Romans for Writing. Asking the team if they're oke with this. Since it does mean helping a Civ towards MM.

Spoiler :

Turnlog

Spoiler :

Pre-flight:

Civ Assist is running

Science at 100 % (philosophy in 7 turns)
income: 0 gpt

I rename our cities, to make dicussion and logs easier. I also decide to wait with trading for pottery for a bit. We can't build granaries right now anyway.

IBT:
Brennus boots us

Turn 1, 2110 BC:
001 is about to riot, but we finish roading the dyes.

IBT:
Celts research the Wheel
Finish irrigating the cow.

Turn 2, 2070 BC:
not much

IBT:
001 settler -> barracks (as prebuild for granary)

Turn 3, 2030 BC:
Not much, but I notice a coast line to the west of the celtic island.
Brennus is still valuing alphabet the same.

IBT:
003 warrior -> curragh

Turn 4, 1990 BC:
Move curragh across.

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 5, 1950 BC:
Found 004 Reykjavik -> archer
MM a little to get philosophy in 1 turn.
Our northern curragh notices dark green borders

Spoiler :

IBT:

We learn philosophy, so I quickly trade for pottery in the IBT and we get mapmaking.

Start on Literature. Science at 80 % now.


Turn 6, 1910 BC:
Switch 001 and 003 to granaries

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 7, 1870 BC:
We meet the Aztecs. They are up The Wheel and Bronze Working, but lack Alphabet. I can make the following trade, which is a pretty good trade, so I go for it.

Only techs for sale are cermonial burial from the Celts and Iron Working from Rome. Since Rome and the Celts know each other, pottery isn't worth much to them. So no possible trade for IW.

We discover we do have horses on our island.

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 8, 1830 BC:
Nothing, I switch 004 to a worker, since we're short on them.

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 9, 1780 BC:
Nothing

For some reason imageshack died on me so attaching the screenie with the horses

 

[Calis]

Looking good so far.

We do not have any use for IW right now. Let's wait. Maybe it's getting cheaper when meeting other civs.

Just recognized that you have 003 as city names two times. And the worker is going to be complete before the city grows. You'll have an eye on that, right?

 

[Optional]

I understand your question, but I lack experience with both Archipelago and Regent, so I can't really tell if trading Writing for Iron Working is good or bad at this stage. I guess we don't need Iron Working as soon as possible. If iron's on our island, we will snap it up regardless of when exactly we learn Iron Working. But how important it is to keep the AI backward, or whether it's better to trade and speed up the tech pace a bit is something I really can't say anything sensible about.

We learn philosophy, so I quickly trade for pottery in the IBT and we get mapmaking.

Pottery from Brennus, I assume? Was this still for Alphabet +2 gpt?

Nice to have horses! To have some quick movers makes things easier.

 

[Daeron]

Looking good so far.

We do not have any use for IW right now. Let's wait. Maybe it's getting cheaper when meeting other civs.

Just recognized that you have 003 as city names two times. And the worker is going to be complete before the city grows. You'll have an eye on that, right?

Whoops, I'm good at little mistakes like that. I'm aware of the worker finishing early. I missed that the civilian was working a forest the first turn. Still deciding what to do with that town. A galley, archer or harbor will take too long, so I might pump out a warrior first.

I understand your question, but I lack experience with both Archipelago and Regent, so I can't really tell if trading Writing for Iron Working is good or bad at this stage. I guess we don't need Iron Working as soon as possible. If iron's on our island, we will snap it up regardless of when exactly we learn Iron Working. But how important it is to keep the AI backward, or whether it's better to trade and speed up the tech pace a bit is something I really can't say anything sensible about.
Pottery from Brennus, I assume? Was this still for Alphabet +2 gpt?

Nice to have horses! To have some quick movers makes things easier.

Yeah, it was for alphabet +2gpt. It's a shame really, one turn later and we could have bought it from the Aztecs for a better price. I probably should have slowed down the tech by one turn, but the 2gpt doesn't hurt us that much at this stage.

I think I´ll hold off on IW for now. You´re both right in that we don´t need it right now.

 

[Optional]

A galley, archer or harbor will take too long, so I might pump out a warrior first.

A couple of warriors for MP is just what's needed early game.

It's a shame really, one turn later and we could have bought it from the Aztecs for a better price. I probably should have slowed down the tech by one turn, but the 2gpt doesn't hurt us that much at this stage.

I assume you don't mean you should have slowed down research on Philosophy for this? No relationship there, I think. But yeah, if you're 1 turn away from meeting another civ, always see if you can postpone a trade.
Don't worry about the 2 gpt though, we stand a good chance getting that back with some later trade.
Early game it's easy to get money back, because the AI can't waste it on rushing anything yet; everybody's still in Despotism. I like to buy workers early game from the AI; they cost over a 100 gold each, but if I now and then get a tech up on the AI, I get it all back. We can't do it, though, because you have to be on the same landmass to trade for workers.

 

[Daeron]

A couple of warriors for MP is just what's needed early game.
I assume you don't mean you should have slowed down research on Philosophy for this? No relationship there, I think. But yeah, if you're 1 turn away from meeting another civ, always see if you can postpone a trade.
Don't worry about the 2 gpt though, we stand a good chance getting that back with some later trade.
Early game it's easy to get money back, because the AI can't waste it on rushing anything yet; everybody's still in Despotism. I like to buy workers early game from the AI; they cost over a 100 gold each, but if I now and then get a tech up on the AI, I get it all back. We can't do it, though, because you have to be on the same landmass to trade for workers.

There is a relationship. I couldn't choose MM until we had Pottery. So when we researched Philo, I had to make the trade to get MM

I finished my turns though, we've also researched Literature. The turns were quite fun to play. I selected CoL as next tech for now, but no beakers have been committed so far. We have MM and Lit now, so the biggest discussion is our tech choices at this point.

Also we can discuss what we want to do with Trondheim and Bergen. Personally, I think we should let Bergen work towards TGL and have Trondheim pump settlers at this point. Alternatively, both build libraries first, Trondheim pumps settlers and we use Bergen's productivity for something else. Part of me thinks it's wasted right now on building TGL.

Spoiler :

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 10, 1750 BC:
some workeractions

IBT:

Turn 11, 1725 BC:
Nothing

IBT:
The Celts research Masonry. They're doing pretty well.

Turn 12, 1700 BC:
Nothing

IBT:
Motezuma boots us.
004 warrior -> worker

Turn 13, 1675 BC:
Nothing

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 14, 1650 BC:
002 Bergen grows to size 5 and threatens to riot. Move the new warrior there for MP.

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 15, 1625 BC:
We spot purple borders on an island between the Aztecs and the Celts.

IBT:
Julius boots us
002 granary -> worker
003 galley -> settler

Turn 16, 1600 BC:
We meet the Koreans. They actually share the island with the Celts, they're down pottery and writing, but up IW. A stack of two Celtic warriors are standing next to their city, Pyongyang. It looks like they're at war.

IBT:
Wang Kon boots us.
One Celtic warrior defeats a Korean warrior, but there is no second attack.
004 worker -> archer
The Romans are building the Colossus

Turn 17, 1575 BC:
Few workerturns and we spot a new island east of the Romans.

IBT:
002 worker -> The Great Lighthouse

Turn 18, 1550 BC:
Not much, send a worker to the gold hill to start roading it.

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 19, 1525 BC:
Not much, lit in 1 turn.

IBT:
We discover literature, not sure what to go for now. Code of Laws seems a safe pick for now. We need to discuss our tech choices from here anyway.
Our borders expand and the Aztecs start on Colossus, a little late.

Turn 20, 1500 BC
MM 001 for a full granary when it finishes next turn. It's the best thing we got to get our settlers out, but it isn't pretty. I think it can produce a settler every 3 turns.

Our neighbours

 

[Daeron]

The Roster (revised):
Calis
EvilConqueror
Daeron
MinutiaRules (up)
Optional (on deck)
Overseer (overseeing things for now)

 

[Optional]

There is a relationship. I couldn't choose MM until we had Pottery. So when we researched Philo, I had to make the trade to get MM

I stand corrected!

 

[MinutiaRules]

I'll wait 3 or 4 hours for discussion if everyone is okay with this. But I guess there might be a time zone problem here so is that enough time? Daeron care to comment? The next available play time for me after later on tonight would be tomorrow around this time.

Initial comments: Looks good and we already have six workers and we're working the gold! Nice as the percentage return for that hill is greater early on. I'll add some more comments in a bit. But I'm hedging towards going to mathematics and trading that for IW.

 

[Daeron]

I'll wait 3 or 4 hours for discussion if everyone is okay with this. But I guess there might be a time zone problem here so is that enough time? Daeron care to comment? The next available play time for me after later on tonight would be tomorrow around this time.

If you've got a good idea of what to do, you should go for it today. If halfway through your turns you get to a big descision and need team input you can always post the turnlog until then and continue later. I value good discussion a lot higher than getting a turnset done a day sooner.

Initial comments: Looks good and we already have six workers and we're working the gold! Nice as the percentage return for that hill is greater early on. I'll add some more comments in a bit. But I'm hedging towards going to mathematics and trading that for IW.

Math seems like a good choice, I agree. I think at this point our goal is to quickly research our way to Feudalism.. Which means a bit of guessing at what techs the AI will be researching, so we can research the ones they'll need, for some quick trading. Going the road towards Currency fits with that, since it's low on the priority list for AI's. With luck, by the time we finish currency we can trade our way out into the Middle Ages.

Thinking about it more, I think we should build the libraries in 001 and 002 now, before they get committed to something else. I think 001 can produce a settler every 3 turns at least. If you look at 001, you'll notice I've put the civilians away from the food high tiles, to get that granary full immediately. I'd go settler -> library and from there try to pump settlers.

On 002, I'm not sure after the library is finished. I think it's fine to put it towards TGL after the library. Unless other/better suggestions are made.

 

[Optional]

Half the team hasn't had a chance yet to comment, Minutiarules, so I wonder if it's possible for you to wait with your set.

A couple of comments:
* Bergen has just finished a granary. A granary town is for growth, so for building settlers and workers. Why all of a sudden talk of a library and a wonder in that town?
* Reykjavik is building a regular archer just now. Quality units should be veterans, not regulars. Better change that archer to a warrior, a temple, a library, whatever, but no archer.

What we're lacking is having a clear idea about what we want to do with which town. Here's a plan: we've got Calis' excellent dotmap, where we all seem to agree on; what about trying to tag those towns with what we want them to build? Tag them either a science town, a growth town, a armoury town, a wonder town, a forbidden Palace town, or something else, but let's get for ourselves clear what our plan is with a certain town. Planning an empire is more than just putting a few dots on a map. It's probably one of the more difficult things to get right in an SG, because often every building ends up all over the place, which isn't the most effective organisation.