Relationship advice

[Nathair]

I'm a bit unclear on the relationship information. I'm looking at the screen right now and I see three items in the relationship list for this leader;
+1 First impression of you.
+3 We sent them a delegation.
+2 Friendly meeting.

So that's a total of +6 giving me an overall status of... unfriendly with the bar half way to real dislike.

What gives?

 

[isau]

From observation I believe it means they currently dislike you but your relationship is improving.

Happy/Neutral/Unhappy = their opinion of you (may be called "mood" in the code)
+ - = Rate of change of opinion

 

[DonPato]

From observation I believe it means they currently dislike you but your relationship is improving.

Happy/Neutral/Unhappy = their opinion of you (may be called "mood" in the code)
+ - = Rate of change of opinion

This is actually very interesting, and hopefully the way that it really works. +6 being some sort of modifier of improving over time at a rate of six positive relational points; this would make it so that it is understandably more difficult to ruin diplomatic relations with a civ who you've spent the whole games being buddies with, and also more difficult to become buddies with somebody who you've antagonized; if this is true and it gets perfected over time, this would make the game more immersive when it comes to AI relationships.

 

[isau]

Here are two photos that show the concept. Unfriendly Ghandi and Friendly Ghandi several turns later. He was Unfriendly so I gave him free gold (+10 relations decaying at 2 per turn) a few times. In the second photo, the gold gift has decayed and the + - total is lower, but his overall mood is improved. I described it in another thread as working like a "Heal over time" spell, while negative modifiers work like "Damage Over Time." Very different from previous games.

Note that Unfriendly Ghandi has lower + - total than later Friendly Ghandi. So the + - is not driving the mood--it appears to be rate of change.

Spoiler :

 

[Big J Money]

Just don't expect to watch the bar move. I tested that out in a similar situation and it stayed the same for several turns. Then one day I noticed that my relations were indeed better and it jumped a bit. So I'm not sure if there's something else at play or if the bar only moves in large jumps, or what.

Edit: Oh nice screenshot. Interesting that your "unfriendly" bar is exactly in the same position as my unmoving one with Cleo (right above the N in "REASONS"). So maybe each level has a static 'bar image'.

 

[isau]

Just don't expect to watch the bar move. I tested that out in a similar situation and it stayed the same for several turns. Then one day I noticed that my relations were indeed better and it jumped a bit. So I'm not sure if there's something else at play or if the bar only moves in large jumps, or what.

Edit: Oh nice screenshot. Interesting that your "unfriendly" bar is exactly in the same position as my unmoving one with Cleo (right above the N in "REASONS"). So maybe each level has a static 'bar image'.

I don't think the bar actually moves. At least I have trouble seeing it moving.

What I definitely have seen tho is civ with negative modifiers drop a relation level and civs with positive ones go up a level. In particular, it seems like there is a modifier called "First Impression" that shows up when you first meet someone. I don't know what influences what the value is, but for me on Emperor difficulty its usually a negative number. That means a few turns after meeting the civ they'll become Unfriendly. But, by sending them a Delegate (+3) I can reverse or slow down that slide in opinion.

 

[DonPato]

This is all very interesting... I'm excited to find out exactly how these mechanics really work.

 

[fatgordy]

Agreed. If this is truly the case, It's a damn shame they chose to show the modifiers but not show the total score.

 

[JosephC]

*nods* I see what the problem is here.

+1 She had a good impression of you
+2 You had a friendly meeting

But here's your problem...
+3 you sent your smooth good-looking friend to chat with her on your behalf, and it turns out she liked your friend more.

So in conclusion, you need to find yourself a better wingman.

 

[DonPato]

Agreed. If this is truly the case, It's a damn shame they chose to show the modifiers but not show the total score.

Or at least make the slider move dynamically with the status of the relationship, rather than it staying static. I wouldn't be much interested myself seeing the actual number of how the AI feels about me because that, for some reason, would feel more immersion-breaking for me than seeing the slider move according to the modifiers.

 

[Nathair]

Interesting that your "unfriendly" bar is exactly in the same position as my unmoving one with Cleo (right above the N in "REASONS"). So maybe each level has a static 'bar image'.

I noticed the same thing.

 

[King Jason]

I have assumed it worked like Isau mentions but I haven't really gone to confirm it. I can say that the Bar definitely doesn't move though so if anything it just jumps to the next spot once you pass the threshold.

This would also explain why in some of my games after a nasty war declaration, my current friends who would have overall negative modifiers due to the warmongering, didn't straight up and switch to a new threshold.

Conversely, this would explain why many people have complained that they have positive modifiers yet are still disliked.

Personally I prefer this style - I'd be interested if there's anything in the XML that actually confirms this. It makes sense.