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Release candidate 2.8.2.0 - testers needed

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Nightinggale, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I think it didn't trigger on your ship, but rather their colony plot coming into the field of vision of one of your units. The game stores how many of your units can see a plot and if it's more than 0, fog of war goes away. Most likely you get into contact by the fact that more than 0 units can see the colony plot without checking which units can see it.
     
  2. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    You are right. I reloaded a prior save, did let the portoguese ship get farther away from their colony and when I then attacked nothing happened. So it was not the attack or sinking of their ship they reacted to, but that my privateer was in a square adjacent to their colonies area.

    Edit: But still - it is a privateer whose nationality should be unknown to the other colonizers, so my expectation would be that nothing would happen. How would they guess that the ship at the edge of their colonies border is one of mine?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  3. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    Probably not a bug from WtP but an awkward thing from the vanilla game.

    My dutch ship moves peacefully around the north coast of New Foundland (I intended to transport my scout there to unload and catch the burial ground before the swedish AI takes it:

    Spoiler :

    Ship1.jpg


    However then the swedish settler creates a colony right next to my ship. Instead of being moved to something understandable (e.g. moving the ship 1 square away to the next free water square to the NW, N or NE) it moves my ship 2 squares to the SW and captures it between the city limits of the two swedish colonies...

    Spoiler :

    Ship2.jpg


    Ingame I either reload and have the ship move 1 square further north or declare war, which I pondered anyway, but something like that should not happen.
     
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    Yes, it is still "Vanilla" behaviour.

    And this really is no bug - it is simply "bad luck" - and it is even extremely rare to happen.
    Seriously guys, every time some minor annoyance comes up, players scream. :(

    You may encounter something like this maybe every 100 games. :dunno:
    It is not worth coding complicated logic to catch such rare cases of "bad luck".

    Just imagine how difficult it is to predict and prevent something like that in the DLL logic. ;)
    (You would need to check all possible combinations of plots and surrounding plots that a Ship could be moved to.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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  5. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    I totally agree.
     
  6. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    If I would be screaming I would at the very least be using bold letters... :mischief:

    Well from a logical point of view it would make more sense - and not create a problem - if either of these could possibly be used
    1) the ship stays where it was, gets a whiteflag for being involuntarily in foreign waters without war and without open borders and has to leave the next turrn, or
    2) when a game finds itself within a new colonies / or an expanding colonies squares then it is moved to the next free square (if the ship had been moved 1 N, NW or NE, it would have stayed in open waters.

    That the ship is moved two squares instead of one and locked in, when moving it only 1 square to the next free square would have it remain free is illogical.

    If nothing can be done about that because it is from the vanilla game and not the mod, or if it could be solved better but would be too much work, I have no problem with that - after all I can still declare war, burn the swedish settlements, raze them to the ground and drown their settlers in the sea for stealing my ship and putting it in a bathtub like a rubberduck... :scan:
     
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  7. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    devolution likes this.
  8. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Prince

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    As I said before, loading a save after desync usually does not cause re-desync. play)
     
  9. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    This is a really good savegame. I found and fixed the bug. The issue was that the work rate was read from the savegame and then it was added from xml, meaning instead of the 100 normal speed, the savegame ended up with 700. Saving and loading gave it 800. Double speed from hardy pioneer then doubled this. The solution is to not save this and instead use the value from xml on load. This way changing the value in xml will not break existing games. Also the update will fix savegames, which already saved corrupted data.

    Ok, but in that case how do I reproduce the same desync over and over to analyze it?
     
  10. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Prince

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    I don’t know that. if I knew what leads to desynchronization.

    by the way, there was one case. before desync I had (say) 100 gold. I tried to buy a unit from the king and it got out of sync. after loading the game, I had not 100 gold, but less, conventionally 97 gold. Where did these 3 gold pieces go, we still did not understand.
     
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  11. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    Bug while merging treasures

    The current maximum for a treasure when merging seems to be 3000 on a gigantic map.

    I just merged two treasures and the result was 1 treasure with 3000 and a 2nd treasure with 0 gold...

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-12-6_23-18-10.png


    Expected result: As in the same game before in one of the other cities merging worked perfectly and joined the two treasures. If the sum of both treasures is exactly 3000 then there should be no 2nd with 0 gold, but only 1 treasure with 3000 gold.
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    That's a really good hint. Sounds like you lost 3 gold on one computer and not another, or you gained 3 gold on just one. Sadly it doesn't reveal where in the code it went wrong or why, but it's a clue.
    Sounds like somebody coded less than 3000 instead of less than or equal. If so it should be easy to fix once the correct line has been found.
     
  13. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    City distance to natives plausibility

    Normally at the start of the game every player avoids settling to close to natives. They block off squares, the proximity annoys them and it could make a whole tribe come screaming at you. Unless the place has an exceptional number of bonus resources or some other reason.

    In my current game (Gigantic random Americas scenario map) the AI seems to be actually fond of cuddling with natives.
    In post 43 of this thread Fort Kristina (swedish) had just destroyed the indian villiage it was founded right next to.

    Looking around with WB in the same game I found most of them doing it - while normally it should be the exception.

    English
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-12-8_23-5-7.png


    Danish
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-12-8_23-6-10.png


    French
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-12-8_23-7-49.png


    So 4 of the AI´s of 8 colonizers start out settling right next to the natives, without proper reason - at least I see none. The chosen locations often have only 1 bonus resource (so no absoulutlely perfect landing place that would justify the risk to anger the natives) and are even close to area without a native settlement.

    Is it just that map, the placement of the native settlements or the AI in general?
     
  14. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    AI computes "Plot Found Values" and considers a lot of acpects.
    (Ocean Access, Food, other Yields, Bonus Ressources in full City Radius, Rivers, ...)

    Settling near Natives is generally not something that AI is afraid of - it has minimal impact on its decision.
    (The Plot however is removed from "Plot Found Value" calculation, because AI can not get Yields from it.)

    AI of course also has to consider the "min distance" between European cities.

    If we mess with it and try to force AI to settle away from Natives, it might lead to AIs not founding enough settlements.
    The result will thus most likely be a lot worse that the current situation.

    Summary:

    Food, Yields, Bonus Ressources, Rivers, Ocean Access, ... are the most important factors.
    Vicinity to Natives is definitely not - it is just a "minor factor" that the AI logic only considers as a side effect (of on plot less for "plot found value").

    There is AI logic to calculate good spots to settle and it is actually pretty good for an AI logic.
    Of course however it does not "think like a Human" and to expect something like that is unreaslistic.

    I see absolutely no problem there. :dunno:
    It has been working perfectly fine so far.

    By the way:

    Nothing in the logic of "Europeans founding City" considering "Plot Values" has been changed to my knowledge.
    (At least I did not and @devolution would most likely have told so if he would have.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  15. Hecur

    Hecur Chieftain

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    In this savegame the pionier is unable to build a road on the mountain. Is this intended?
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Apparently it is intended by whoever wrote the code. There is special code to prevent building on peaks if said plot is surrounded only by peaks. I have to admit I wasn't aware of this rule. Either we remove it or we make it very clear that you can't. The way it is right now where you just can't without being told why is flawed and prone to people assuming bugs. I assumed a bug until I had walked through the code with the debugger to figure out why canBuild() says no.
     
  17. Hecur

    Hecur Chieftain

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    Thanks, i did not know either. I searched in the Colopedia and there was no entry about roads at all.
     
  18. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    The small description about roads is under the improvements built by the pioneer
    Code:
    Roads[\BOLD][PARAGRAPH:1][COLOR_HIGHLIGHT_TEXT]Roads[COLOR_REVERT] help speed transport of your units across open land. Moving across a Road tile costs 1/2 the normal amount of movement points. Roads can be built on any non-water plot. There are two other types of Roads, that can be built on plots with Roads already present: [COLOR_HIGHLIGHT_TEXT]Country Roads[COLOR_REVERT] and [COLOR_HIGHLIGHT_TEXT]Plastered Country Roads[COLOR_REVERT]. These allow a unit to move respectively 3 times and 4 times faster
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
  19. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    Not a bug, but a plausibility issue.

    Had established a mission and received a "Converted Native" a while later.
    A converted native is someone who gives up his former live as an indian in favour of the faith and way of live of the colonizers. He tries to dress like them, he prays to the same god, his whole life in the tribe would be something to look back to as his old life.

    And then I can in the very same turn, have that guy who turned his back on his tribal life, sent back into the tribe to live with them and learn from those people whose ways he shunned by converting. IMHO a converted native should be barred from "Learning from Natives", at the very least from the same villiage from which he just converted away in the same turn, better permanently.

    If not we have a practical / logical problem:
    Turn 1: You gain a converted native, turn 2: Converted native learns from natives and transforms after a few turns into e.g. a Tobbaco farmer and can by giving up his profession turn into a free colonist. If it is that simple, then having a unit "Converted Native" could simply be done away with and a free colonist emerge right away from an indian village...

    More realistic would seem to me if converted natives would go to mission school, e.g. learn from visiting a school if they want to change into something better.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-12-12_0-45-30.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
  20. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    Slightly misleading text.
    "Merge the Treasures on Plot to one Unit"
    Expectation: ALL treasure units are merged to ONE treasure unit.
    Result: Out of 5 treasures 4 are created, 3 X 3000 and 1X 739 gold (I had already merged two treasures in another city before which made the amount of gold that high).

    In another city I had 3 treasures and using the merge button merged only two of them instead of all 3 despite the combined sum <3000

    Would something like that be possible?

    As the maximum ingame is 3000 perhaps a text like
    "Merge two of the Treasures on Plot to one Unit" (IF all treasures combined < 3000 gold) or
    "Merge two of the Treasures on Plot to Units of 3000"?

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-12-12_2-33-14.png
     

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