Religion Balancing?

[Lokolus]

I think that the religions in RFC are not balanced enough:

Judaism: in the 600 AD start, Judaism should be more dominant in Russia (Khazaria), the Americas and Eastern Europe, and less in Turkey.

Christianity: Christianity is really overpowered, it should never arrive to Mali, Carthage and Egypt (not in Alexandria in the 600 AD start).

Islam: Islam is so underpowered that only Arabia and Turkey are Muslim, Spain should have a 50\50 odds of being Muslim and france should have a 25\75. Egypt ussualy have Islam in all of their cities but never convert to Islam. Mali is sometimes Muslim but converts to christianity when only one of their cities is Christian. Persia and Babylonia are Muslim only in the 600 AD start.

Buddhism: Should be less dominant in Persia and more in China, Mongolia and Japan.

The Chinese religions and Hinduism: The chinese ones should only be in china, and Hinduism should only be in India.

 

[Úmarth]

Judaism in the Americas? Why? AFAIK Judaism should be replaced with something else.

I don't think Christianity is overpowered, north Africa was Christian (ie Carthage and Egypt in RFC) until the Arab conquest. The problem is there, like you said, Islam is v. underpowered. But I do know Rhye has heard this before and he's done the best he can to encourage Arabian expansion.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

That's why Mali needs an Islamic missionary--they start with Divine Right, so might as well get the religion that comes with it.

 

[Lokolus]

That's why Mali needs an Islamic missionary--they start with Divine Right, so might as well get the religion that comes with it.

It does'nt matter because they convert even if they have only one Christian city.

 

[Virdrago]

Still, Mali would start off more historically accurate, even if they do convert to Christianity later. The Americans start with a Christian missionary, even though three-quarters of the time they flip Christian cities or have Christianity spread to their cities faster than the other six religions seem to.

Side note: I've noticed that even when three of their first four cities are Muslim or Jewish, America always sticks to its Christian capital.

 

[Rod]

Btw. how comes that Mali is always going for Christianity and moreover is always getting vassalled on the first spot by any European?

Is this hardcoded or are there other reason ?

 

[Lokolus]

The Arabian expansion is a paradox. if the Arabians expand they will still be the only Muslim state because they conquered the other ones...

 

[holy king]

christianity just spreads at an insane rate...
i played two games where i founded christianity in india
-tried to prevent it from spreading to europe by closing borders with persia after budhism spread there and not making contact with mediterranean civs the first time -> the whole world was christian by 1000 ad
-took a buddhist missionary and spread it to rome (that was allready christian by around 1 ad) and gave them theology to convert -> almost the whole world except rome was christian by 1000 ad, arabia was destroyed by turks, those were then as jewish as france, but the rest: christians)

 

[SadoMacho]

Still, Mali would start off more historically accurate, even if they do convert to Christianity later. The Americans start with a Christian missionary, even though three-quarters of the time they flip Christian cities or have Christianity spread to their cities faster than the other six religions seem to.

Side note: I've noticed that even when three of their first four cities are Muslim or Jewish, America always sticks to its Christian capital.

America does not start with a christian missionary, it starts with a missionary of the most frequent religion, and that happens to be christainity 99% of the time. This was doen because tere was a time in RFC that America had no religion for a long time. Many cities in America that flipped had no religion.

I indeed would like to see some more religious difference in the world. Mali should be Muslim, Persia should become Muslim fast too. Indonesian cities should become muslin fast too.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Still, in the 600 AD start, now that the AP is automatically built in Rome (which is Christian), it's hard NOT to become Christian for all the hammers. When I played Ethiopia I purposefully did not build the AP when I founded Christianity, and Saladin built it. Islam was still only around 15% in 1900 but much better that if the AP wasn't in Makkah (some European cities had Islam); but as far as their state religion it was still Christianity.

 

[mitsho]

WEll yeah, don't give Mali a missionary, what if a human-player founds islam as ethiopia? Instead, one could tone down the spread of Christianity a bit and I ever-demanded a change in personalities for Mansa and for Saladin! (but there probably needs someone to be able to do this...)

 

[Hegix]

Well iirc the early spread of Islam was done by the sword, much like the Arab UP. Persia should start with Judaism (since Zoroastraism isn't in the game), but switch to Islam if vassalized. Mali and Ethiopia maybe should have a preference for Islam though.

 

[onedreamer]

I think that the religions in RFC are not balanced enough:

Judaism: in the 600 AD start, Judaism should be more dominant in Russia (Khazaria), the Americas and Eastern Europe, and less in Turkey.

Christianity: Christianity is really overpowered, it should never arrive to Mali, Carthage and Egypt (not in Alexandria in the 600 AD start).

Islam: Islam is so underpowered that only Arabia and Turkey are Muslim, Spain should have a 50\50 odds of being Muslim and france should have a 25\75. Egypt ussualy have Islam in all of their cities but never convert to Islam. Mali is sometimes Muslim but converts to christianity when only one of their cities is Christian. Persia and Babylonia are Muslim only in the 600 AD start.

Buddhism: Should be less dominant in Persia and more in China, Mongolia and Japan.

The Chinese religions and Hinduism: The chinese ones should only be in china, and Hinduism should only be in India.

If you talk of the 600 AD start then saying Judaism should be dominant in Russia and America makes little sense, as well as Islam in France. These are all modern age things.
The main issue with Islam is that Egypt, Babylon and Persia don't become islamic, unless you force them to.

It does'nt matter because they convert even if they have only one Christian city.

untrue, I mean, not always. For example not if you play the Arabs.

Btw. how comes that Mali is always going for Christianity and moreover is always getting vassalled on the first spot by any European?

Is this hardcoded or are there other reason ?

untrue as above.

 

[Lokolus]

If you talk of the 600 AD start then saying Judaism should be dominant in Russia and America makes little sense, as well as Islam in France. These are all modern age things.

Judaism should be dominant in Russia because of the Khazars, a Jewish state who ruled in the Ukraine area and the Black Sea. America is mostly a modern age thing and so are the American Jews. Southern France and Italy were Muslims...

 

[onedreamer]

the Moors launched a couple invasions from Spain all the way to the Alps, but that has no relevance in France having Islam in any of its cities.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Maybe merging the mod for inquisitors from Gods of Old will work (e.g. expulsion of the Jews from Spain). This will help the Buddhist 30% (eliminating half the Taoist and Confucian influences in the north) but may make the Islamic 40% impossible (if the AI were to expel all Muslims).

 

[kairob]

I agree with removing Judaism, and helping Buddhism and Islam should spread faster.

 

[The Q-Meister]

The Arabian expansion is a paradox. if the Arabians expand they will still be the only Muslim state because they conquered the other ones...

True..for awhile that is. With Rhye's dynamic rise and fall of civs, new civs are bound to spring up and Egypt and Spain in particular love to pop up again if conquered.

 

[The Q-Meister]

The Chinese religions and Hinduism: The chinese ones should only be in china, and Hinduism should only be in India.

Well you can't say exactly that THIS religion should be here 100% of the time I mean, there is a bit of a "what if" aspect to the game that is only somewhat or loosely based on certain historical events; not a strict historical simulation. But that being said I do agree with the basic points of your argument.

Buddhism: Should be less dominant in Persia and more in China, Mongolia and Japan.

Yes, but herein lies the conundrum.... there really IS no religion in the Persia area of the world (aside from Judaism which makes even less sense) at that time period in the game and since Persia does have an early start a religion is bound to come into the cities at some point so ...there you go.

The solution? As I see it, the only possible one that makes any kind of historical sense is Zoroastriasm. Either add it or replace it with Judaism.

 

[Rod]

What about replacing Judaism with a new religion called Minor Religions ?

The Minor Religions would give no diplomatic boni (because the minor religion of persia might be Zoroastriasm, but of Egypt the Isis-Cult), but mali (they still would be opposing cults to other religions). These mali needs to apply even between two civs with both having Minor Religions as state religion (by definition we assume that a Minor Religion has never had influence beyond one realm therefore these two countries will not share the same minor religion, but different ones) .

But nevertheless they count as religion and you can build generic temples, monasteries and missionaries.

In this case the whole debate about Judaism and Zoroastriams and Sikhism and Paganism could be solved once and for all ...