Religious pressure bug

[Cozzolino]

Just checking in: is this a bug? No missionaries involved, no religious buildings, Bhuddism beliefs are: God-King, Diligence and Apostolic Tradition. Both Holy cities (Shinto and Bhuddism) are close to the city and there's no religious wonders involved. Sure he has a trade route there, but the same thing is happening in all of my cities, with the first Bhuddist follower exerting around 50 pressure! This can't be right, should I post it on Github?

 

[Grabbl]

It's not the first follower that exerts pressure, but the surrounding cities with majority religion Buddhism. Convert Rotterdam for example (and other cities in the environment) to lower the pressure.

 

[Cozzolino]

I honestly thought that the flat number of followers was a factor in religious pressure. I still think it's not adding up, I do play around religion a bit and I've never noticed such an overwhelming pressure.

 

[Grabbl]

How many Shinto and how many buddhism cities are close (in a range of about 10 tiles)?. Pressure should roughly reflect this ratio, though it is influenced by road connections and possibly other modifiers. If the only Shinto city is Amsterdam (assuming that's the city on top of the screen), that could work out if Siam has 2 or 3 more Shinto cities at the bottom.

Edit: Also, does he have Fealty?

 

[Moi Magnus]

I honestly thought that the flat number of followers was a factor in religious pressure. I still think it's not adding up, I do play around religion a bit and I've never noticed such an overwhelming pressure.

No. What is relevant is the flat number of follower in nearby other cities. Number of follower inside the city is irrelevant (from my understanding) for pressure.
(Though indirectly, since the follower add pression to other cities, it help converting followers in other cities, which gives pression back to the city).
Note that religious pression go faster on roads than on difficult terrain.

 

[Stalker0]

No. What is relevant is the flat number of follower in nearby other cities. Number of follower inside the city is irrelevant (from my understanding) for pressure.
(Though indirectly, since the follower add pression to other cities, it help converting followers in other cities, which gives pression back to the city).
Note that religious pression go faster on roads than on difficult terrain.

So if I understand that correctly, the holy city doesn't generate any religious pressure for its own city until another city starts getting some followers. Is that correct?

 

[XplosiveLun]

In both Brave New World and VP, normal religious cities does not generate pressure on itself but on other cities. However, holy cities are the exceptions that both generate pressure and itself or other cities. In VP, the number of followers also increase the pressure exerted to other cities.

Well... if I remember correctly.

 

[peterw1987]

Religious pressure concept is quite simple to understand. The difficult part is the hidden multiplier factor.

The pressure exert to nearby cities in 10 hex range (could be further with road). (need to be confirmed: 10 turn walk range, so mountain block religious pressure AFAIK)
Another factor that increase pressure :
1.Religious building
2.Trade route
3.Policy (some fealty and statecraft policy)
4.Enhancer belief(ritual,press printing, spy)
5.Leader UA (India)

 

[Cozzolino]

Back with all the info I could gather.
Playing on April release with CBP and CP only.
Siam aka Bhuddism went Progress and has the Statecraft opener, beliefs are God-King, Diligence and Apostolic Tradition.
After some missionaries shenanigans this is the situation in Muang Saluang
Most notably, Rotterdam has no trade routes and is deep in my religious sphere and still getting a lot of pressure
Again, it is also remarkable that I can't export pressure from my Holy city to any Siam city

 

[Stalker0]

Back with all the info I could gather.
Playing on April release with CBP and CP only.
Siam aka Bhuddism went Progress and has the Statecraft opener, beliefs are God-King, Diligence and Apostolic Tradition.
After some missionaries shenanigans this is the situation in Muang Saluang View attachment 497524
Most notably, Rotterdam has no trade routes and is deep in my religious sphere and still getting a lot of pressure View attachment 497525
Again, it is also remarkable that I can't export pressure from my Holy city to any Siam city View attachment 497526

Are you showing us all of the Siam cities? For example because of the road to its capital lampang is hitting your city with pressure. If there is another few cities to the south I could see it putting out thst much pressure

 

[Moi Magnus]

Back with all the info I could gather.
Playing on April release with CBP and CP only.
Siam aka Bhuddism went Progress and has the Statecraft opener, beliefs are God-King, Diligence and Apostolic Tradition.
After some missionaries shenanigans this is the situation in Muang Saluang View attachment 497524
Most notably, Rotterdam has no trade routes and is deep in my religious sphere and still getting a lot of pressure View attachment 497525
Again, it is also remarkable that I can't export pressure from my Holy city to any Siam city View attachment 497526

From the info there, it could be a bug, but it could also be normal.
Suppose that:
1) Your cities (and the CS) are in term of followers 1/3 if Siam's religion and 2/3 of your religion
(so if a city only has pressure from your cities, it will have 1/3 pressure from Siam's religion, and 2/3 pressure from your religion, since pressure is follower per follower)
2) Siam's cities are more almost completely of its religion.
Then Rotterdam would have a balanced pressure between the two, while Muang would have a lot of pressure from Siam.

 

[Cozzolino]

Siam has 4 cities, you can get a glimpse of the fourth one in the third screenshot, it is 5 tiles away from Siam capital and 4-5 tiles away from Lampang
All of my cities have roads too and even the inner one (Rotterdam) is still hit by a a huge amount of pressure, and they seem to produce less pressure of their own. To me, it seems like Siam Holy city is exerting way more pressure than it should and my Holy city isn't functioning properly.

In order to take any guess about this situation I think we should all agree on how many tiles can religious pressure travel from a city through open terrain, rough terrain and roads. If we accept 10 tiles as answer I think the pressure shown in Rotterdam is not the expected value.

1) Your cities (and the CS) are in term of followers...

I'm a bit lost here. What I gathered from your answer in the earlier post is that
- Cities generate a base religious pressure WHEN they have a majority religion, otherwise they don't
- A city in range of religious cities will get a certain amount of pressure depending on the number of follower in the nearby religious cities and slowly turn pop into followers
- A city with a majority religion but mixed follower will exert mixed pressure reflecting the ratio of followers in the city

So I'm lead to believe that in the scenario where 3 cities with different religion have the same pop and are passively converting a fourth city, the one city with the most follower will exert the biggest pressure and eventually win the fourth city.

Yet what we're seeing here is that the first follower of a religion in a city enables (better yet, just shows) the pressure his religion is exerting and that doesn't seem to fluctuate a lot with the actual number of followers but the full extent of the pressure is applied as soon as the first follower is in the city. It's true that in the OP my continent was swarming with Bhuddism, but even after gaining majority in each city around Muang and Rotterdam the pressure is still heavily in favor of Bhuddism, the number of cities AND the ratio of the followers inside are now HEAVILY favorable for spreading my religion, but the numbers are still pretty moderate and Bhuddism effortlessly exerts the same pressure with just 2 cities in range! What about my roads? My religious majority? They don't seem to work for me! Nevermind the fact that my Holy city trade routes CAN'T exert any pressure selectively on Siam cities which looks like a bona fide bug.

 

[Moi Magnus]

- Cities generate a base religious pressure WHEN they have a majority religion, otherwise they don't

I'm sure to have seen over the last few month (maybe january?) the change "cities generate pressure for each follower, even those that are not from the majority religion, so a city can generate pressure from multiple religions".

Maybe it was revert later (and I've missed it in the patch notes), but I'm sure it was tested at some point.

Edit:
More precisely, from my knowledge, there is
1) Religious pressure from nearby cities (distance affected by roads). The pressure is per follower, so even non-majority religions count.
2) Religious pressure from trade routes. Only the majority religion of the cities count for that.
3) Religious pressure from being an Holy city.

 

[Cozzolino]

I'm sure to have seen over the last few month (maybe january?) the change "cities generate pressure for each follower, even those that are not from the majority religion, so a city can generate pressure from multiple religions".

Does that mean that swarming a Holy City with trade routes will effectively turn a fraction of the Holy city pressure into a foreign religion pressure?
That sounds devastating, and would also explain why my Holy City was exporting Bhuddism pressure instead of Shinto pressure. Which still sounds like a bug or an unwanted interaction.