While, all in all, I think the game sounds like it's coming together well and will be a lot of fun, I admit I'm not too happy about what I've heard about religion. Now it's not that I'm worried about offending people, `cause I'm not; it's just the small number of religions and semi-random nature of who gets them irks my sense of historical accuracy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will be annoyed by seeing Hindu French, Christian Japanese, Buddhist Aztecs, and weirder things in every game. It seems likely that, as religion is determined by what tech you discover European civs will be no more likely to be Christian then any other Civ, and the Chinese will be Islamic as often as they're Confucian.
That makes the history buff in me cry anguished tears.
A simple and easy solution which will act as a band-aid to the problem is, if you found a religion you can name it, just like you name cities. I'm addicted to renaming my civilizations, leaders, and cities anyway, so I'll be preaty disapointed if this isn't in. Still, it won't help with the AI civs (unless they let us rename AI religions) and that will still rub me the wrong way.
Seeing as the religions are all generic in ability, they're only real differentiating characerstics will be name and probably an icon. My suggestion is to vary the name based of the Civilzation culture. This would be a purely aethetic change, but IMHO a needed one. For example, if Europeans discover polytheism they're religion is called Druidism. If an Asian civilization does it's called Hinduism. Same religion different name string/icon. There would still only be seven slots/techs open to found new religions with it's just that the name would be different depending on who discovered them.
Obviously they're be some overlap, but it might look a bit like this, with the religions/techs arranged chronolically:
(1 = Polytheism, 2 = Monotheism, 3 = whatever wakes Buddhism normally, etc...)
European Civs:
1.) Druidic
2.) Catholic
3.) Catholic
4.) Catholic
5.) Protestant
6.) Protestant
7.) Mormon
Med Civs (Greeks/Romans whatever):
1.) Helanistic
2.) Catholic
3.) Catholic
4.) Orthodox
5.) Orthodox
6.) Orthodox
7.) Protestant
African/Middle Eastern Civs
1.) Osirian (i.e. Egypian)
2.) Jewish
3.) Zorasterism
4.) Islamic
5.) Islamic
6.) Islamic
7.) Islamic
Asian
1.) Hindu
2.) Buddhist
3.) Buddhist
4.) Shinto
5.) Confucian
6.) Confucian
7.) Confucian
American
1.) Shamanistic
2.) Ometeotl
3.) Hanan Pacha
4.) (Fill in the blank)
5.) (Fill in the blank)
6.) (Fill in the blank)
7.) (Fill in the blank)
On reflection you'd need multiple tags, so you couldn't found two versions of 'Catholic', so it would be a bit more complex then just changing a string, but I still think it would add an enormous amount to the historical versimilitude of the game. It's one thing if they're conquered or converted, but I just think my suspension of disbelief won't be able to suffer through naturally Islamic Germanies, Buddhisist Incans, and similar abominations.
I write this next bit well aware that it's probably far too late to make such changes, but I really dislike the idea of all religions having the same abilities and being 'generic'. I understand why they didn't want to assign traits and offend people, but perhaps the traits could simply be assigned anew each game. What I mean is that all religions START generic, but if you are the lucky player who discovers, say Monothesim, then you get to PICK a trait for the religion you start. There would be seven traits, each one locked off once someone picks it so it can't be taken again. Here are some examples I dreamt up, better ones are surely possible:
Evangelism:
+Bonus to converting other relgions
-Relationships with nations with different religions is lower
Stability:
+Less unhappy people
-Penalty to science/cultural growth
Growth:
+Faster reproduction
-More unhappy people
Fanatic
+Bonus to unit Experience
-Penalty to converting others
Pacifist
+Bonus to production/tax rates
-Penalty to unit experience
Artisitc
+Bonus to cultural growth
-Penalty to production/tax rates
Chosen People
+Less unhappy people
-Penatly to converting others
The French discover Polytheism and pick Artistic, so they've got Hinduism(Druidism
) is now Artistic. Next game the Germans discover Polytheism and Hinduism is Militristic. In some games Christianity might be Pacisfist, or Evangelic, or Fanatic. In others it might be Confucianism that has those traits.
This would, IMHO, make religion a lot more fun and interesting. Do you race to discover one first and pick a trait to benifit yourself or go for the Great Library instead? What do you pick when someone has the trait you want? What if you're playing a cultural strategy and your neighbors next door are converting your citizens to 'Stability' which decreases cultural growth? How do you manage your wars when your people are all religously non-violent?
Personally, I think this would be the best of both worlds. All the fun of religious traits, no chance of offending people by assigning them 'from on high', more strategy, and a different experience each game.
Anyway, just rattling off what I think. I doubt the game will be moddable enough to introduce traits, but if Firaxis is in feature lock or just dosn't like these ideas, maybe we'll be able to swing the first one with a mod.
Thoughts?
That makes the history buff in me cry anguished tears.
A simple and easy solution which will act as a band-aid to the problem is, if you found a religion you can name it, just like you name cities. I'm addicted to renaming my civilizations, leaders, and cities anyway, so I'll be preaty disapointed if this isn't in. Still, it won't help with the AI civs (unless they let us rename AI religions) and that will still rub me the wrong way.
Seeing as the religions are all generic in ability, they're only real differentiating characerstics will be name and probably an icon. My suggestion is to vary the name based of the Civilzation culture. This would be a purely aethetic change, but IMHO a needed one. For example, if Europeans discover polytheism they're religion is called Druidism. If an Asian civilization does it's called Hinduism. Same religion different name string/icon. There would still only be seven slots/techs open to found new religions with it's just that the name would be different depending on who discovered them.
Obviously they're be some overlap, but it might look a bit like this, with the religions/techs arranged chronolically:
(1 = Polytheism, 2 = Monotheism, 3 = whatever wakes Buddhism normally, etc...)
European Civs:
1.) Druidic
2.) Catholic
3.) Catholic
4.) Catholic
5.) Protestant
6.) Protestant
7.) Mormon
Med Civs (Greeks/Romans whatever):
1.) Helanistic
2.) Catholic
3.) Catholic
4.) Orthodox
5.) Orthodox
6.) Orthodox
7.) Protestant
African/Middle Eastern Civs
1.) Osirian (i.e. Egypian)
2.) Jewish
3.) Zorasterism
4.) Islamic
5.) Islamic
6.) Islamic
7.) Islamic
Asian
1.) Hindu
2.) Buddhist
3.) Buddhist
4.) Shinto
5.) Confucian
6.) Confucian
7.) Confucian
American
1.) Shamanistic
2.) Ometeotl
3.) Hanan Pacha
4.) (Fill in the blank)
5.) (Fill in the blank)
6.) (Fill in the blank)
7.) (Fill in the blank)
On reflection you'd need multiple tags, so you couldn't found two versions of 'Catholic', so it would be a bit more complex then just changing a string, but I still think it would add an enormous amount to the historical versimilitude of the game. It's one thing if they're conquered or converted, but I just think my suspension of disbelief won't be able to suffer through naturally Islamic Germanies, Buddhisist Incans, and similar abominations.
I write this next bit well aware that it's probably far too late to make such changes, but I really dislike the idea of all religions having the same abilities and being 'generic'. I understand why they didn't want to assign traits and offend people, but perhaps the traits could simply be assigned anew each game. What I mean is that all religions START generic, but if you are the lucky player who discovers, say Monothesim, then you get to PICK a trait for the religion you start. There would be seven traits, each one locked off once someone picks it so it can't be taken again. Here are some examples I dreamt up, better ones are surely possible:
Evangelism:
+Bonus to converting other relgions
-Relationships with nations with different religions is lower
Stability:
+Less unhappy people
-Penalty to science/cultural growth
Growth:
+Faster reproduction
-More unhappy people
Fanatic
+Bonus to unit Experience
-Penalty to converting others
Pacifist
+Bonus to production/tax rates
-Penalty to unit experience
Artisitc
+Bonus to cultural growth
-Penalty to production/tax rates
Chosen People
+Less unhappy people
-Penatly to converting others
The French discover Polytheism and pick Artistic, so they've got Hinduism(Druidism
) is now Artistic. Next game the Germans discover Polytheism and Hinduism is Militristic. In some games Christianity might be Pacisfist, or Evangelic, or Fanatic. In others it might be Confucianism that has those traits.This would, IMHO, make religion a lot more fun and interesting. Do you race to discover one first and pick a trait to benifit yourself or go for the Great Library instead? What do you pick when someone has the trait you want? What if you're playing a cultural strategy and your neighbors next door are converting your citizens to 'Stability' which decreases cultural growth? How do you manage your wars when your people are all religously non-violent?
Personally, I think this would be the best of both worlds. All the fun of religious traits, no chance of offending people by assigning them 'from on high', more strategy, and a different experience each game.
Anyway, just rattling off what I think. I doubt the game will be moddable enough to introduce traits, but if Firaxis is in feature lock or just dosn't like these ideas, maybe we'll be able to swing the first one with a mod.
Thoughts?
Furthermore, I think people's concerns about political correctness are way overblown. Did the religious right protest Medieval: Total War? Did they picket Paradox Entertaiment for giving Christianity and Islam different traits? Would anyone actually even NOTICE if Firaxis gave different religions different traits? No. No. No.
