removing features from c2c

[Koshling]

I completely agree with this sentiment, Koshling has been doing fantastic work in the past few versions with the AI. The only thing I'd like changed is that with all this new AI stuff, the turn times are up a good bit, so some performance work might be nice after V22 comes out.

My first focus afeter v22 is released will be phase 2 of the pathing changes, which should speed things up a fair bit I'm expecting.

 

[strategyonly]

I believe after this next version, almost everyone will be satisfied with the NEW City Governor that Koshling has done an amazing NEW job on, and it works 10 times better than ANY mod out there right now, its choices are very good, all you need to do it point it in the direction you want, ie production, food, commerce etc, and it works great now, you can turn it on and off anytime you want or add your own when you think you have a handle on it, then place it back on again, i have NEVER ever used it before, but NOW, its just again, Amazing.

 

[Sgtslick]

yeah i agree strategyonly, its a really innovative and impressive improvement.
Food + Hammer ~ FOR THE WIN

If for instance the filter system in the city screen (where you can isolate particular units or buildings) could be incorporated into an automation system that would be incredible!!!
Even just a simple military choice automation icon- this would be ace.

Remember you can also add things in whenever you want while keeping the automation on. So if you just got commercial ports, you can add it to the build que and it will build next and afterwards the city will go right back to automation.

 

[Epona222]

Non-related Inspired idea: how about we have city traits, like leadership, so we can have a merchant city, a science city, etc. Maybe it could be an achieved event, like once you produce enough in a city, with the right resources, it could acquire the trait or label. Maybe you could change the city flag to an identifying color that helps you quickly identify it's specialty, like blue for science, red for military, gold for merchant hub, black/grey for production etc.

I tend to super-specialise certain of my larger cities, and also play on gigantic maps so end up with a LOT of cities (96 cities in my current game, most of the map still empty) - I flag them myself by renaming a city eg. Mohawk is renamed to Mohawk (Mercantile) as a reminder to myself that Mohawk is producing a lot of gold and would be a good place to build any mercantile/trade Wonders or any buildings that give a free Merchant specialist. Cayuga is similarly renamed Cayuga (Science) and Susquehannock is Susquehannock (Military) so that I remember to keep it bang up to date with all the + Military Production buildings and any buildings that give special promotions - sure I can churn out units in any city, but if I want to build a particular unit extra quick with every available building related special promotion available and max starting experience, I go to that city. It doesn't roll off the tongue particularly well, but when you have a lot of cities it's a major help! It's not like I'm writing some sort of story about it and they need pretty names after all, and it does the job of reminding me of what the city's main focus should be when I'm in the city screen setting up a build queue, I just need to glance at the top of the screen to remind myself. And you can change it if your priorities for that city change throughout the game.

Edit to add: Honestly, I wouldn't want the AI to flag this sort of thing on my behalf - I tend to play the game in what I have come to understand is a vastly different way than other people, and for that reason I tend to not give the AI any control whatsoever over my own units or city production, and really wouldn't appreciate it if particular cities were automatically flagged as being specialised - I want to make those decisions myself, and with the city renaming mechanism that I described above as a reminder to myself (and if you didn't want to do that, a notebook and pen next to the keyboard to make notes in while you play would be a good alternative), I do not need any additional help in order to play my game the way I want to play it.

 

[Sgtslick]

Ideally I 'want' make decisions myself too Epona222 but I think there is a consideration with micromanagement that needs to balance depth and strategy and control etc with fun. If you micromanage every single thing the game can just become like your working.. not playing a game. Also civ4 quite simply is a game that is more fun as you progress through it. If you turtle along at 2km an hour for 3 months before even reaching modern era - sorry but this is just ridiculous to me and not at all enjoyable. The main concern I have with playing the game like this is that what if it turns out your not all that happy with map/context/situation. Sometimes its better to just start again than play out an average game. If you want to continue simply coz you invested so much time into it.. well this sux

 

[xartah]

I choose to play mostly on small maps with standard as the limit on what map sizes I play on. I also only play on epic/marathon. I hate managing 20+ cities on larger map sizes as well as the increased turn time that comes with larger maps. Spending ages just pressing enter on the really slow game speeds and waiting over a minute each on large maps is just completely opposite to fun to me.

BTW will the faster game speeds be fixed in v22? Building/research ratio on snail is 300/700 while on marathon it is 250/200 which means that building construction lags far behind technological progression on marathon.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ideally I 'want' make decisions myself too Epona222 but I think there is a consideration with micromanagement that needs to balance depth and strategy and control etc with fun. If you micromanage every single thing the game can just become like your working.. not playing a game. Also civ4 quite simply is a game that is more fun as you progress through it. If you turtle along at 2km an hour for 3 months before even reaching modern era - sorry but this is just ridiculous to me and not at all enjoyable. The main concern I have with playing the game like this is that what if it turns out your not all that happy with map/context/situation. Sometimes its better to just start again than play out an average game. If you want to continue simply coz you invested so much time into it.. well this sux

Interesting. I like the early part of the game and not the later so I am quit happy to play for many months before the modern era where I get bored and start a new game.

 

[Koshling]

Interesting. I like the early part of the game and not the later so I am quit happy to play for many months before the modern era where I get bored and start a new game.

I too prefer early game, but it's a style thing. I'm not very warlike, and prefer the strategtic elements of deciding where you need to grow (geographically) to secure choke points, key resources, etc. which is more early-game oriented. I suspect if I was into big wars I'd prefer late game.

 

[rightfuture]

For me, the game seems to bog down a little in micromanagement, in the Medieval - Industrial Eras. I want sweeping actions to matter a little more. I love the fine-tune details, I just would like some more low-mid level macro movement in addition; Maybe city / regional tactics? I'm not solely interesting a linear war or city management either. I like implications of applied concepts. The classic era works the best because it is so dynamic, and choices have a serious effect on the success of your civilization. It's not just build a unit for war, or build a building for city improvement.
I like the idea of the re-worked governor, but I'm not sure it would bridge that feeling between city management and country management. Maybe more variety in worker improvements? Maybe Localized (or regional) terrain effects like pollution, crime around cities (not just in them), disasters like in SimCity, and meaningful events tied to choices and behavior. Policies (in civ v) didn't cut it, but even though they bridged a little they seemed artificial, cartoony, and simplified. Not sure what I'm looking for yet, but I hope that it helps the modders find areas for improvement.

I definitely don't want a simplified Civ5 feel, I want more of an exploration, mercantile, colonization race feel, broad / epic, where choices matter a little more than just adding another incremental building or unit. Diplomacy, trade, religion, exploration, crime, flammability, resources, law, culture, etc. are worth exploring more. Maybe slow diffusion and influence between regional cities could give them greater color and depth.
I like the buildings and the details, I just want broader country/regional strategy/consequences to stand out a little more.

Maybe it could be spiced up a bit to not get lost in another era or detail; slight flavor or emotion could help address potential boredom, without overshadowing or ignoring the working tweak-able details.

Unless they improve gameplay, please don't remove features. The depth of detail is what keeps C2C a living world, working behind the scenes to flavor the environment. Patterns of unseen dynamic modeling behavior can make the game breathe and come alive.
I am looking forward to the continued tweaking of each era to more fun and depth, and of course the soon-to-be C2C love for the Modern - Future eras.

 

[Koshling]

Maybe Localized (or regional) terrain effects like pollution, crime around cities (not just in them), disasters like in SimCity, and meaningful events tied to choices and behavior.

We already have crime around cities, though currently the game doesn't make (direct) use of it (indirectly it can lead to crime spread to nearby cities).

 

[BlueGenie]

Hah. I'm like DH, like the building part of the game and can play the early parts for hours. By Industrial and Modern I tend to get a little bored, especially if the outcome of the game already seems to be decided.

Maybe we should all start posting the saves we get tired of, letting some who like the later parts of the game take over and bring the game to it's end?

Cheers

 

[Hydromancerx]

Hah. I'm like DH, like the building part of the game and can play the early parts for hours. By Industrial and Modern I tend to get a little bored, especially if the outcome of the game already seems to be decided.

Maybe we should all start posting the saves we get tired of, letting some who like the later parts of the game take over and bring the game to it's end?

Cheers

Multi-Maps should chnage up things since even behind nations will be able to claim land in space. But it will be awhile until that is added to C2C.

 

[Epona222]

Multi-Maps should chnage up things since even behind nations will be able to claim land in space. But it will be awhile until that is added to C2C.

I can't express how much I am looking forward to multi-maps, I was a big fan of the Test of Time spin off for that very reason and if you can get multi-maps into CIV 4 I for one will be delighted! Mind you I think it has long been a problem in vanilla CIV 4 or ROM/AND/C2C that if one Civ gets ahead early they can basically dictate the rest of the game, it is very hard to come back in a decisive manner if you've lagged behind early on.

If there are any odd mistakes in this post it is because my small blue cat was climbing up me whilst I was trying to write it, I hope it makes sense!

Edit to reply to another post, to avoid making 2 posts in a row!

Ideally I 'want' make decisions myself too Epona222 but I think there is a consideration with micromanagement that needs to balance depth and strategy and control etc with fun. If you micromanage every single thing the game can just become like your working.. not playing a game. Also civ4 quite simply is a game that is more fun as you progress through it. If you turtle along at 2km an hour for 3 months before even reaching modern era - sorry but this is just ridiculous to me and not at all enjoyable. The main concern I have with playing the game like this is that what if it turns out your not all that happy with map/context/situation. Sometimes its better to just start again than play out an average game. If you want to continue simply coz you invested so much time into it.. well this sux

I am one of those people who micromanages every single aspect of the game, and there are other people like me who take charge of every last little command. Any tweaks to the game ought to take account of our needs too, that's all I'm saying - and a graphic indicator next to the city bar indicating what that city is best at is something I can live with, although I'd still ignore it and make use of my trusty notebook and pen I actually ENJOY that aspect of the game of working it out for myself, assigning specialists, deciding where to build Wonders in order to get the best benefit from them -to me it is one of the most interesting parts of the game - a visual indicator or something that I can otherwise ignore would be fine by me, but I don't want the AI taking charge of anything in my game, I don't even automate my workers!

In terms of not getting a map that you are happy with, I completely understand that, because I am not going to play a game every night for the next 3 weeks just to find out the random map is not to my liking - but that is what WorldBuilder is there for if that sort of issue is going to stop you enjoying a game - I am quite happy to set up my own scenario in WorldBuilder to make sure that I get a map that I am happy with. I play on Gigantic Terra map, so if left to chance it can be an awfully long time before I realise it's not going to work for me, so rather than lose interest after 500 turns on a random map I make my own scenarios (not cheaty, I make a good effort to keep them balanced) to ensure that I will keep interest in the game for a long time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I suspect i play somewhat like Epona. While I do set my workers on automate I do enjoy micromanaging which buildings and units I am making. In the old days of vanilla I would automate explorers but since the introduction of subduing animals I control all my scout/hunters by hand because hunting is fun.

As for maps, I love C2C PW2f. However I don't always get the best starting location or region. However this is why I love the game. Trying to climb out of a bad situation even when the odds are against you. In fact in one game i was getting my butt kicked because I had no iron or horses. And I manged to trade my way into getting both. Once I got them I made a great comeback and destroyed the evil civ who was kicking my butt.

If there are any odd mistakes in this post it is because my small blue cat was climbing up me whilst I was trying to write it, I hope it makes sense!

Blue cat strikes again!!

Spoiler :

 

[code99]

I suspect i play somewhat like Epona. While I do set my workers on automate I do enjoy micromanaging which buildings and units I am making. In the old days of vanilla I would automate explorers but since the introduction of subduing animals I control all my scout/hunters by hand because hunting is fun.

As for maps, I love C2C PW2f. However I don't always get the best starting location or region. However this is why I love the game. Trying to climb out of a bad situation even when the odds are against you. In fact in one game i was getting my butt kicked because I had no iron or horses. And I manged to trade my way into getting both. Once I got them I made a great comeback and destroyed the evil civ who was kicking my butt.



Blue cat strikes again!!

Spoiler :

That sums up the way i play too, with one exception, i automate only a couple of workers (or more, depending on the size of my empire) and set them "Build Trade Network (automate)". This way they dont spam with stupid improvements and it reduces the chance that they build the same thing and they will build the apropriate improvement over resources. The rest, micromanage ...

 

[DRJ]

However I don't always get the best starting location or region. However this is why I love the game. Trying to climb out of a bad situation even when the odds are against you. In fact in one game i was getting my butt kicked because I had no iron or horses. And I manged to trade my way into getting both. Once I got them I made a great comeback and destroyed the evil civ who was kicking my butt.

Lol I know how you feel i my recent game I just had turn 1335 (GEM deity/eternity/minor/raging) and an AI got sedentary lifestyle first - I counted the techs I was still missing to SL: I am 18 techs behind that AI. [My neighbour AI, Korea and me are same score(!), I have 4 cities and he has 3 or 4, but about 1 tech more with little less population. At least playing as Japan you can have good intelligence about your neighbours lol]
Considering that techs take around 30 turns at this time and I can't expand beyond 4 cities before chiefdom and boats I think I will be overrun by riflemen once I have currency (which is when I would be saved as AI just can't trade ). gonna tell you in a few weeks, after all it's Eternity, so happy v22 everybody

 

[Epona222]

Blue cat strikes again!!

Spoiler :

Did I post that picture up here at some point, I don't recall doing so but that is one of my photos of my little blue cat

If I did post it here, I must have taken whichever thread I posted it on very off topic, my apologies Although he has deleted a few units and sent a few workers off into no-man's-land in his time by trampling on the keyboard, so I might well have mentioned him!

 

[Hydromancerx]

Did I post that picture up here at some point, I don't recall doing so but that is one of my photos of my little blue cat

Nope.