Requirements for access to resources on mountains

[User0918]

In my current game, I researched Sedentary Lifestyle and used my first Great General to promote my Stone Axeman to Mountain Leader. Then proceeded to build a Stone Tools Workshop and a Trail on the mountain right next to my city. That peak has a stone resource, and while my city can work that tile, I still don't get access to the resource.

Are there any other hidden requirements for mountain resources? I searched the pedia but found no hint about what I might be missing here.

Any help appreciated, because I really dig the concept of usable mountains, but I'd like to be able to actually use them

 

[raxo2222]

You need Mountaineering - medieval tech for mountain mines.

 

[User0918]

Thanks for the fast reply, although that's a bummer.

So basically any resource on a mountain is locked away until the medieval era then. Considering that stuff like stone, obsidian or copper is needed pretty early on, I'm wondering why "Usable Mountains" is often recommended, it seems it hampers your game more than it actually helps. Do people like the 3 hammers they get from the tile? I'd much rather have the resources early, when starting from Prehistoric at the time you enter Medieval the game is mostly decided on the slower game speeds anyway.

Are there any big benefits from having workable mountains that would balance out that (in my opinion huge) drawback?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is not supposed to be that way quite. If you have a route and the correct improvement you should be able to get the resource but you can't work the plot. There appear to be some problems with how the peak stuff works and it needs to be looked at again.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, I made it possible to get an improvement and a route before mountaineering but I haven't looked at ensuring this is enough to get the resource. The coders who set up useable mts likely established a hard control on that somewhere in the code and I haven't yet taken the time to go hunting to eliminate it yet. I really should be able to do that soon...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think that is what is causing the problem with Machu Picchu. The problem is that C2C has units that can move into mountains before mountaineering and some can get workers in there to do the building of trails and other improvements.

A solution may be to do something similar to what I had to do with reefs and lighthouses and have a new of terrain feature that replace the Peak with "Peak with Trail" if before Mountaineering then put it back to Peak with a trail at Mountaineering.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Or I need to figure out where the hard limits are in the code. What's the exact symptoms of the 'problem' with Machu Picchu? That might be a slightly different case. Are you talking about the wonder or the improvement or what?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have not had time to check the Machu Picchu XML thoroughly but it looks the same as the Geoglyph one so far except it can only be built on Peaks.

I replaced the 2 special sets of 2 workers with a bonus which is what is needed to build the improvements. In each case the Wonder gives you one of that bonus. That should allow all your workers to build those wonder improvements. (Doh! I have not checked the easiest XML ie the worker's XML yet. )

The intent for Peaks was not fully discussed but I think the "cottage" line for peaks was going to be:-

• mountain hamlet -> mountain village -> mountain town --(some)--> Mountain resort
  
  
• Machu Picchu = mountain town (edit 2 they should be a bit better than mountain towns perhaps providing the minimum culture or something)
  
  
• Mountain resort - have to be 3 times away from other mountain resort
  
  
• Cities can be built on Peaks with mountaineering and have a special set of buildings just for them eg ski lift

edit hamlets and villages will probably not get used much.

Suggestion 1: A city should be able to work any Peak that has an improvement on it.

Suggestion 2: any non-wheeled unit should be able to enter a peak with a route on it. Wheeled should require paved roads or have a very high chance of destruction if on a lesser route.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Suggestion 1: A city should be able to work any Peak that has an improvement on it.

Agree - that's something I'd really like to do.

Suggestion 2: any non-wheeled unit should be able to enter a peak with a route on it. Wheeled should require paved roads or have a very high chance of destruction if on a lesser route.

I think there's a few places wheeled should require a route. Swamps and mangroves as well. Regardless, I'm not sure that we should be making routes enable unit passage without the Commander's ability to lead his army through. Inclement weather can be very preventative despite a route.

EDIT: Cities can already be built on peaks once you have ... I think it's Surveying. I know Mountaineering is part of the prereq and then Perspective... but I think it's settled on Surveying now.

 

[IronClaymore]

Thanks for the fast reply, although that's a bummer.

So basically any resource on a mountain is locked away until the medieval era then. Considering that stuff like stone, obsidian or copper is needed pretty early on, I'm wondering why "Usable Mountains" is often recommended, it seems it hampers your game more than it actually helps. Do people like the 3 hammers they get from the tile? I'd much rather have the resources early, when starting from Prehistoric at the time you enter Medieval the game is mostly decided on the slower game speeds anyway.

Are there any big benefits from having workable mountains that would balance out that (in my opinion huge) drawback?

Without Usable Mountains, peak plots are entirely useless, you don't get a thing from them with any tech, just like vanilla. At least...I think that's what the game option does.

A very good solution I've been seeing recently is from the Civ4 Colonization mod Religion and Revolution [https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/civ4col-religion-and-revolution.455/]. In that mod (or maybe it's also in regular Colonization, I don't know I've only player RaR these past months), mountains are impassible to all but a few units. Once they have a road however, built by a pioneer who CAN pass into the plot, any unit can pass them (great for getting armies past the Rocky Mountains or the Andes). And of course the bonus is linked, not that it does anything in Civ4Col but it would matter in C2C.

Ideally of course each different route type would enable different unitcombats to enter. For example, a trail would only let recons through. Mud path would let melee/archers, roads would permit mounted, paved for catapults and other sieges, tanks might need railroads, etc. Early on though, just having a route and a basic improvement might be enough to access a resource. Or maybe not. A copper deposit for example. Sure, there's copper in those mountains, and sure a few rugged miners from the city might sometimes trudge up there to dig a few holes, giving the city a few more hammers of yield, but without the transportation and logistical infrastructure required to build and maintain difficult mines in those area, including various forms of specialised labour, sturdy wheels and pack animals, and nourishing food, you could not honestly say that those few hammers are enough to allow every city in your empire to produce copper wares and outfit your armies of axemen.

 

[Toffer90]

Without Usable Mountains, peak plots are entirely useless, you don't get a thing from them with any tech, just like vanilla. At least...I think that's what the game option does.

Even without the options you can use mountain plot far more than vanilla, I don't remember what the option do at the moment but I usually play without it and can still build improvements on those plots.