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Research for Sandris units: GREEK

Yang Liu

H.Balck
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
406
Location
Augsburg, born in Eastern germany!
Hallo Sandris
Here are the first block for your add new greek units.

Hellenic Armys:
Take a look at this for macedonian army:
http://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_makedonia_units.html
Hoplite4thcentury.jpg

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The Ptolemaic Army:
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The Tarentine cavalry you can produce with 2 shieldtypes (this one and the celtic ripped shield) and 3 helmet types (spartan Pilos / thrako-phrygian / attic )http://www.royalathena.com/pages/HelmetsWeapons.html
16.jpg
Tarentine cavalry with different helmet types from the new osprey Nov 08 !
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The Seleucid Army 168-145 BC:
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H.Balck
 
Nice pictures... but this should be in the main C&C forum.
 
I have a feeling he may already have stacks sent to him but this was sitting around from a project so,

Spoiler :
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Handy that Sandris can read Russian, no? Cuz I have trouble figuring out what some of those Byzantine units are supposed to be exactly, other than dates! :)
 
The last image reads: "byzantinskiy soldati". ;)
 
The problem with 'Greek' armies is that they can cover a large time period and a massive expanse of territory. Generally we have the Mycenaean period (bronze age, time of Agamemnon and Achilles), then a dark age followed by the Classical period (time of hoplites, the Persian wars, Spartan, then Athenian, then Theban hegemony), then the Greeks are conquered by the Macedonians, Alexander spreads them to the edge of India and his Empire splits into Successor States on his death. There are a number of RTW mods that have researched the Sucessor State armies, so take a look at them for the 300 BCE-Roman period:
From the Extended Greek Mod.
From Europa Barbarorum: Macedonia, Seleukeia, Bactria, Epirus, Greece, Pontus, Ptolomaics.

I second Yang Liu's suggestion that you take a look at some of Johnny Shurnate's art. Some very useful stuff there. I have a feeling that a simple google images search may have been involved in both Yang Liu's and my seaches. ;)

For the Alexandrian period you can do worse than getting some stills from the Oliver Stone movie. Whether you like the movie or not, he did try to get the equipment etc. right, and he had a number of good scholars working with him to make sure it was all authentic.

For the Classical period you've got most of the material you would need above. The main differences between the various city state's equipment would be in the helmets and shield designs. The Spartan ceremonial helms you have already done on your Spartan units, though in battle they would usually use the plain Pilos Helm. The Thracian Helm (used by Thracians and various mercenary units) I think you have used on your existing Thracian Mercenary Peltast unit. The Corinthian helm was used through most of the Peloponese I believe. The Phrygian helm you have rightly used on your existing Macedonian units, and would also be used by many of the Ionian Greeks. The Chalcidean helm was quite widely used even into the Roman period, and the Attic helm was common in the Classical period (especially in Athens and the states of the Delian league). The shield designs I don't know a huge amount about, but some of the city states are covered in the various RTW mods, especially the Extended Greek Mod.

For the Mycenaean period make sure weapons are bronze rather than iron. Make sure there are no cavalry units - chariots are OK for this period, but not horse riding. Large greaves covering the legs up to the knees, a Bronze or leather cuirass covering the chest and an armoured skirt make up the armour. A javelin/spear/short sword and shield combo would make up the traditional arms. Apparently they practiced archery with short bows too. Shields were apparently like the one that Virote used here.

EDIT - Just found some shield designs here.
 
For the Mycenaean period make sure weapons are bronze rather than iron. Make sure there are no cavalry units - chariots are OK for this period, but not horse riding. Large greaves covering the legs up to the knees, a Bronze or leather cuirass covering the chest and an armoured skirt make up the armour. A javelin/spear/short sword and shield combo would make up the traditional arms. Apparently they practiced archery with short bows too. Shields were apparently like the one that Virote used here.

EDIT - Just found some shield designs here.
I own the Osprey book on the Myceneans -- let me know if you need some scans.
 
Does anyone still know Kryten's Hoplites? It would be great to have sandris-style replacements for them! :)
 
I remember Kryten's hoplites well, and still use them on occation. They demonstrate the main differences of the classical period - the helms and the shields. To be honest there were dozens of Greek city states, each with their own equipment, so I'm sure Sandris can't do all of them. The main ones to do (if possible) would be Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thebes and one to represent the Ionian cities. Kryten's units could be a useful source for Sandris.
 
I remember Kryten's hoplites well, and still use them on occation. They demonstrate the main differences of the classical period - the helms and the shields. To be honest there were dozens of Greek city states, each with their own equipment, so I'm sure Sandris can't do all of them. The main ones to do (if possible) would be Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thebes and one to represent the Ionian cities. Kryten's units could be a useful source for Sandris.

I will make only main miltary units for each era (5-7 types). Maybe later unitlines could be expanded.
 
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