Resource building question
- Thread starter Crimson13
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Afaik - no.
Worse, if i'm not mistaken, this can happen: you got city A getting a tile with, say, Fungus which is 4 tiles away, and it won't count for city A in terms of buildings - since it's not "workable" for city A; then you build City B which has this very tile 3 tiles or less from city, - but this tile won't count for city B either, because it does not "belong" to city B - it's "City A's" tile...
Worse, if i'm not mistaken, this can happen: you got city A getting a tile with, say, Fungus which is 4 tiles away, and it won't count for city A in terms of buildings - since it's not "workable" for city A; then you build City B which has this very tile 3 tiles or less from city, - but this tile won't count for city B either, because it does not "belong" to city B - it's "City A's" tile...
Ryika
Lazy Wannabe Artista
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Yes, that's correct. Whatever city "grows" into that tile "owns" it and is allowed to build the resource building. If that's outside of the 3-tile-ring, then no city will be able to make use of it (as a prereq for buildings, it can of course still be worked).
IIRC in Civ 5 there was an exception to that rule though: Tiles in the first ring around newly found or conquered city should automatically change ownership to that city if the tiles in question already belong to your empire, so if you settle next to the resource you should be able to use it for that new city. But again, not 100% sure if that's really how it worked in Civ 5 and if it's correct that may not even be the same for BE.
/edit: Turns out this is partially incorrect - read further for correction.
IIRC in Civ 5 there was an exception to that rule though: Tiles in the first ring around newly found or conquered city should automatically change ownership to that city if the tiles in question already belong to your empire, so if you settle next to the resource you should be able to use it for that new city. But again, not 100% sure if that's really how it worked in Civ 5 and if it's correct that may not even be the same for BE.
/edit: Turns out this is partially incorrect - read further for correction.
You're welcome! 
About the mod, though: larger radius for working tiles would change balance noticeably. For example, it would boost KP more than other sponsors because of KP's border growth bonus. There will also be advantages for any possible sponsor/gameplay. Even if cities are close to each other, such mod would allow to better mix-and-match tiles "between" cities: less of "gee this one city is all grassland and the other nearby city is all hills, i wish i could mix those" trouble. So i think if the mod increases "workable" radius, it'd be best if it'd balance it with some disadvantage to keep the game any challenging. Tbh, Civ:BE is rather easy as it is... %)
About the mod, though: larger radius for working tiles would change balance noticeably. For example, it would boost KP more than other sponsors because of KP's border growth bonus. There will also be advantages for any possible sponsor/gameplay. Even if cities are close to each other, such mod would allow to better mix-and-match tiles "between" cities: less of "gee this one city is all grassland and the other nearby city is all hills, i wish i could mix those" trouble. So i think if the mod increases "workable" radius, it'd be best if it'd balance it with some disadvantage to keep the game any challenging. Tbh, Civ:BE is rather easy as it is... %)
Not sure if this helps, but you can change tile ownership. If you have a tile that a city claims but can't work, go to the city screen for a city that can work it. If you click on the blank worker circle above the tile, you should see that the tile's yield now appears, even though the worker circle is still blank. That means the new city now claims the tile but isn't working it yet.
You can then assign a worker there either manually (by clicking the blank worker circle) or automatically (by clicking the City circle to redistribute the workforce).
You can then assign a worker there either manually (by clicking the blank worker circle) or automatically (by clicking the City circle to redistribute the workforce).
legalizefreedom
Inefficiency Expert
Yes, but there is apparently a difference between "owning" the tile and changing who works it. It is stated earlier in this thread that ownership is determined when the tile is first acquired and implies it can never be changed unless the city dies.
Ryika
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After looking a bit deeper into it, it seems like I was slightly wrong in my post above. whoward actually explains the system in an older post:
Still, legalizefreedom is right - just changing which city is allowed to work the tile does not change anything about which city is able to construct the building. And for good reason - if that were possible, then a single tile could allow up to 6 cities to construct the associated building one after the other - that would be quite op.
Still, legalizefreedom is right - just changing which city is allowed to work the tile does not change anything about which city is able to construct the building. And for good reason - if that were possible, then a single tile could allow up to 6 cities to construct the associated building one after the other - that would be quite op.
legalizefreedom
Inefficiency Expert
Thanks for the clarification.
I guess that means it doesn't matter who is working it, the owning city will still be able to build the building.
Speaking of being able to change the owner. Unless I missed something, it stands to reason if you plant a city closer to the plot than its owner, it could change owners. What happens if you've already built a building there? Can the new owner build it as well?
If so, that could make for some interesting micro.
I guess that means it doesn't matter who is working it, the owning city will still be able to build the building.
Speaking of being able to change the owner. Unless I missed something, it stands to reason if you plant a city closer to the plot than its owner, it could change owners. What happens if you've already built a building there? Can the new owner build it as well?
If so, that could make for some interesting micro.
Ryika
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So I just tested that and no, interestingly enough, that is not the case. As soon as a city has grown onto a tile that tile gets "owned" by that city, which then means that, after all, I was right - just in the wrong way.
So my conclusion is: Resource tiles are still "owned" and assigned the second the tile gets dragged into your borders just as I thought, but if multiple cities can own a tile, then, no matter which city you use to buy that tile, the game will always give that tile to the same city - I tested that ingame:
I bought a resource tile that was in the third ring of my capital, just after I finished a city that then had the resource tile in its second ring, and as expected, although I actually bought the tile with my capital the other city is the one that is allowed to construct the resource building.
Out of interest I then did some more tests: Selling the building in the capital did, as expected, not change anything about the ownership of the resource. But when I deleted my capital, the other city got the right to construct the resource building. So tiles get re-distributed when the original owner vanishes. However, as already mentioned, founding a new city closer to that resource after it has already been claimed does nothing. With the exception that, after some more digging I finally managed to break that system:
As one can see there's only one tile of petroleum in the radius of that city and it has been claimed (bought) by Citadella (it has also already built the Petro-Plant), before the outpost grew onto that tile. The city now shows that the petrochemical plant could be built if a Petroleum-Tile in its proximity got improved, but the only Petroleum tile that is available has already been improved and belonged to the capital. The moment I remove the resource from that tile the Petrochemical Plant is no longer listed in the building menu.
I actually had to think about that for a while, but if it's not just a bug that was caused by me using IGEditor out of laziness, then I think here's what happened: That resource DID change ownership when the city was done, so it seems the "The resources around a city always belong to that city"-Rule is correct. The problem is that that tile was improved before the ownership was changed so the new city thinks it's not improved. And the only way to fix that is to let an AI plunder that tile and then repair it - at that moment you can build a second Petro-Plant from the same Petroleum-Tile. Not sure if that's really worth it though.
So my conclusion is: Resource tiles are still "owned" and assigned the second the tile gets dragged into your borders just as I thought, but if multiple cities can own a tile, then, no matter which city you use to buy that tile, the game will always give that tile to the same city - I tested that ingame:
I bought a resource tile that was in the third ring of my capital, just after I finished a city that then had the resource tile in its second ring, and as expected, although I actually bought the tile with my capital the other city is the one that is allowed to construct the resource building.
Out of interest I then did some more tests: Selling the building in the capital did, as expected, not change anything about the ownership of the resource. But when I deleted my capital, the other city got the right to construct the resource building. So tiles get re-distributed when the original owner vanishes. However, as already mentioned, founding a new city closer to that resource after it has already been claimed does nothing. With the exception that, after some more digging I finally managed to break that system:
Spoiler :
As one can see there's only one tile of petroleum in the radius of that city and it has been claimed (bought) by Citadella (it has also already built the Petro-Plant), before the outpost grew onto that tile. The city now shows that the petrochemical plant could be built if a Petroleum-Tile in its proximity got improved, but the only Petroleum tile that is available has already been improved and belonged to the capital. The moment I remove the resource from that tile the Petrochemical Plant is no longer listed in the building menu.
I actually had to think about that for a while, but if it's not just a bug that was caused by me using IGEditor out of laziness, then I think here's what happened: That resource DID change ownership when the city was done, so it seems the "The resources around a city always belong to that city"-Rule is correct. The problem is that that tile was improved before the ownership was changed so the new city thinks it's not improved. And the only way to fix that is to let an AI plunder that tile and then repair it - at that moment you can build a second Petro-Plant from the same Petroleum-Tile. Not sure if that's really worth it though.
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legalizefreedom
Inefficiency Expert
Definitely not worth all that, but thanks for looking into it. Your time testing is appreciated.
I wonder if the fact the petro is in the new city's first ring (not just closer) has something to do with it becoming available. Seems like I read something like that somewhere. If you plant a new city it will auto own resources in the first ring.
Probably never going to be worth it for the building (if it is even intended and won't get patched out), but it might influence city placement.
I wonder if the fact the petro is in the new city's first ring (not just closer) has something to do with it becoming available. Seems like I read something like that somewhere. If you plant a new city it will auto own resources in the first ring.
Probably never going to be worth it for the building (if it is even intended and won't get patched out), but it might influence city placement.
Ryika, you know what? You are one crazy scientist, - and i mean, VERY crazy, and VERY scientist! And personally, i love when you do your research like this, - extremely very much; immense pleasure to read your recent posts here, it was. Excellent werk nailing down the whole deal!! :thumb_up:
legalizefreedom
Inefficiency Expert
So to sum it up...
A tile is owned the first time a city acquires it, either by border expansion or purchase regardless of distance or workability.
Once a tile is owned by a city the only way it will change ownership is if 1) you plant a city with said resource in the first ring or 2) the city dies.
Ownership of a resource tile for the purposes of enabling resource dependent buildings is not affected by what city actually works the tile.
A tile is owned the first time a city acquires it, either by border expansion or purchase regardless of distance or workability.
Once a tile is owned by a city the only way it will change ownership is if 1) you plant a city with said resource in the first ring or 2) the city dies.
Ownership of a resource tile for the purposes of enabling resource dependent buildings is not affected by what city actually works the tile.
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