Resources and overworking the land

[maddskillz]

I am currently on a continent by myself and developed the entire land. I have removed every jungle, forest and mined every mountain and hill. Does this mean as resources become available later in the game that I will not have access to them on my continent as I have removed all natural habitats (i.e. jungle, mountains, hills, and forests).

Say it ain't so!

Thanks.

 

[Dralix]

The hills and mountains are still there, so you're fine as far as they go. Any resources that aren't yet visible to you will still appear.

After that, if a resource is depleted (which is followed by the a new source being discovered) it cannot appear in the formerly forested/jungle terrain.

 

[royfurr]

Originally posted by Dralix
...
After that, if a resource is depleted (which is followed by the a new source being discovered) it cannot appear in the formerly forested/jungle terrain.

Hey, thats interesting, I didn't realise that if Jungle and Forest are gone, no reappearance of a resource. I had thought it would be like Luxeries, eg I have mined all my Jungle but sill have Silks on the Grasslands that appeared after clearing the Jungle. But if I had had Rubber and it disappeared, it could not reappear on those (now) Grassland tiles?

I had the impression that the cleared Jungle, now grassland, would still show the Rubber that was there ... ie "before" it had disappeared (ie once I had Replaceable Parts, if Rubber had been in those (now cleared) Jungle tiles, I would still see Rubber in the grassland tiles which were former jungle tiles.. Now I wonder, by clearing all of my continents Jungle, are my hopes of Rubber, and hence Infantry, now all for nought? The vast majority of my games end in victory (or defeat!) well before the point where Infantry becomes available, so I had not noticed this (either way). My current game may well actually get to this point, I am just finishing the last of the Middle ages tech and will start Steam Power turn after next. I had planned to beeline to replaceable parts. But I HAVE cleared every single jungle tile on my main continent.

Fortunately I still have forest, of course. So maybe I will be in luck, BUT-

Does anyone know if once cleared of jungle, can rubber "still" appear in those now grassland former jungle tiles? IE tiles which had rubber (not yet revealed due to low tech level) from the start of the games initially resources assignments, NOT "re-located" rubber which had dissapeared from its original tile?

THANKS in advance for anyone who can post info on this!

 

[Dralix]

Sorry, I don't think I explained that very well.

All resource locations are preassigned when the map is created. This will not change. So, if one of your jungle squares was granted rubber, then you cleared the jungle, you still get the rubber.

Occasionally, resources deplete, and new sources are immediately discovered. As I understand it, you will not be able to discover a new source of rubber on a tile that once was jungle and is now grassland.

 

[Jason Fox]

In my current game I had a source of oil run out. Then I noticed my neighbor suddenly had oil I didn't remember seeing previously very close to my border. I waited a few more turns, hopeful I'd get more oil and eventually had to go to war for it.

This isn't the first time I've lost a resource and not had it replace, even though I've read here that it's fairly commonplace for resources to crop back up.

I wonder if it just shows up someplace, maybe even close to the original source, but not necessarily in your borders?

One change I'd like to see is a little warning, like "Our source of oil by (city name) will run out soon" and then in 2-5 turns it's gone. That would give us an interesting choice, like whether to interrupt production in a city to build a unit you may not be able to after the resource is exhausted.

 

[Mr Spice]

When one resource is depleted it does reappear on the map, but not necessary in your territory. As for clearing jungles, there is no drawback in doing that. Rubber is never depleted. Oil also appears on desert and tundra, which are terrain types that you can´t change to something else and will thus always have. Coal also appears in mountains and hills, so the same argument is valid here. This means that by clearing jungles you do not risk resources not reappearing.

 

[Jason Fox]

Mr. Spice, thanks for explaining that.

Then the only drawback to clearing jungles is enemy units with more than one movement won't be slowed in those areas anymore. I have left jungles intact for that reason alone, figuring I could reach the city well before an invading force of any variety and thus not defend it as well as I might otherwise.

 

[royfurr]

(Mr. Spice-
Is this the Nice Spice? Yea, probably so, your answer WAS helpful!! Thanks for the info on re-occuring resources.)

As I understand it from an Editor prespective, it is a simple random function for the disapperance of a resource. They all have a value, (in some cases a zero value, as would explain Mr. Spice's report that Rubber never dissapears). Every turn the program "rolls the die" and if a number less then the given value occurs, the resource dissapears. (Since you can't get less then a zero, rubber cannot dissapear ... makes sense, if rubber starts with a zero value for the "disapperance probability".) This from looking around in the editor and surmise.

But it tells us nothing about the way the re-apperance location is determined.

And note that since this is a numerically random even each turn, there is no way for a player to recieve a "warning" that the resoursce is "about" to go away.

Oh Well.

As an aside, in my current game, last night, (ah, timeleness ...)
I have a civ which has (had ...) 3 iron deposits. In Anno Dommini 1745, one of them becomes "exhausted" and "poof", now I have only 2 sources of iron. Of my 3 remaining opponents, two have 3 each, and the last, just one. My vanished iron appears not elsewhere on my main continent (where it had been), but on another, within the nation that only has one iron up to then.

The very next turn, 1750 AD, ANOTHER iron deposit of mine "becomes exhasuted". It's on my second, partially conquered continent (which the Babylonians share with me - they are the civ that just went from one iron to two). This second vanished iron also reappears on a new, seperate continent from where it had initially been- unfornatuely for me, on the continent of my main rival the Iroquois. They now have 4 irons and I am down to just one.

All in just two turns!

Am I unlucky or what!

You can see why I might be concerned that my clearing ALL jungle from my main continent (my second, partial continent has no jungle), might leave me with no rubber ...

I will very surely be glad to get Infantry ... IF I do have rubber ... will not know for sure until I research Replaceable parts ... it will be a tense wait ...

I think I might need to conquer the Babylonians to get back some iron, if that last one I have were to dissapear ...

Sealman might like that option, too!

 

[Mr Spice]

Originally posted by royfurr
Mr. Spice-
Is this the Nice Spice?

You still remember my first customary title? Cool. Glad that I could be of help, btw.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by royfurr

But it tells us nothing about the way the re-apperance location is determined.

Re-apperance should logically be nothing more than randomly choosing one of the possible available land types that can support that resource. So if there are 100 possible tiles that can take that resource, then any given one has a 1/100 chance of getting the resource. Likely what it does is generate a number, scale it by the number of possible tiles. And then take that number tile in the list of possible tiles.

 

[royfurr]

Originally posted by etj4Eagle


Re-apperance should logically be nothing more than randomly choosing one of the possible available land types that can support that resource. So if there are 100 possible tiles that can take that resource, then any given one has a 1/100 chance of getting the resource. Likely what it does is generate a number, scale it by the number of possible tiles. And then take that number tile in the list of possible tiles.

Don't know if this is the "logical" way for the program to locate the re-appearance tile, but your method could very well be the technique used. A consequence of this pretty much random method is that there is no expectations that the new tile location will be in yours or your enemy's civ ... or in neutral terriroty. Just random, spread over the possible acceptable tiles. Real life things which would effect location probabilities (eg, t ype of other nearby mineral strata?) would probably be too difficult to simulate in the game.

Even if your exact method isn't it, its probably something just as random in nature.