RFC Europe: Small bugs/fixes

[sedna17]

@Jessiecat

Competes does mean "requires the same resources". There was a bug in the corporations XML regarding those two corporations.

As for Burgundy... I can't say for sure. Remember that being a turtle is NOT enough to remain stable. Otherwise Egypt or Babylon could survive into the late game in plain RFC. In fact, you have to grow your economy, which normally means expansion -- but this causes instability if your civ is constrained to a small area. This is the curse of Rhye, and we haven't changed the basic mechanics of this.

 

[jessiecat]

@Jessiecat

Competes does mean "requires the same resources". There was a bug in the corporations XML regarding those two corporations.

As for Burgundy... I can't say for sure. Remember that being a turtle is NOT enough to remain stable. Otherwise Egypt or Babylon could survive into the late game in plain RFC. In fact, you have to grow your economy, which normally means expansion -- but this causes instability if your civ is constrained to a small area. This is the curse of Rhye, and we haven't changed the basic mechanics of this.

I thought the corporation thing seemed bugged. I understand your point. About Burgundy, the problem wasn't failure to expand or economy not growing. It was 2 stars for foriegn even though my foriegn relations were excellent. Surely Germany being wiped out shouldn't be enough to make Burgundy suddenly unstable and lose 1 of 2 cities should it?

EDIT Tried it again. New start. Built 3 cities and captured Marseilles. Funny thing. Germany converted to Judaism. I thought we weren't allowing that. And Genoa became Islamic. Anyway soon lost Marseilles due to instability. Three stars on everything but 1 star for foriegn. I give up.

 

[Wessel V1]

I've seen that before, the first box gets really low after a while, like -30. Still, it's possible to balance this by having a good economy, having good cities, etc. In my game I conquered as far as Paris, and found out that is actually helped my stability.

There is something I don't understand though: why has Burgundy much higher maintenance penalties? If it's to make sure Burgundy has to turtle, then it's fine, but if it's not, could the penalties be removed then?

 

[jessiecat]

I've seen that before, the first box gets really low after a while, like -30. Still, it's possible to balance this by having a good economy, having good cities, etc. In my game I conquered as far as Paris, and found out that is actually helped my stability.

There is something I don't understand though: why has Burgundy much higher maintenance penalties? If it's to make sure Burgundy has to turtle, then it's fine, but if it's not, could the penalties be removed then?

I don't know about the maintenance penalties but there seems to be a heavy penalty against foriegn relations. I've tried again and this time I haven't lost a city yet. Got the first UHV condition too. But although I have 4 or 5 OBs and Germany is my vassal (I'm running Vassalage) I still only have 1 star for foriegn and am showing as shaky (-10). I don't know what the problem is. Maybe Burgundy needs "The Power of Entente" as well. Like tweak the foriegn modifier a bit in their favour? Please sedna or 3Miro.

 

[3Miro]

I don't know about the maintenance penalties but there seems to be a heavy penalty against foriegn relations. I've tried again and this time I haven't lost a city yet. Got the first UHV condition too. But although I have 4 or 5 OBs and Germany is my vassal (I'm running Vassalage) I still only have 1 star for foriegn and am showing as shaky (-10). I don't know what the problem is. Maybe Burgundy needs "The Power of Entente" as well. Like tweak the foriegn modifier a bit in their favour? Please sedna or 3Miro.

It has been couple of months sine I last worked on the foreign relations. IIRC the main contribution was Wars vs Neutral vs OB vs Defense Pacts. I will double check, it could actually be a bug.

On the civic screen, which one of the boxes is low, the first or the second one (or both). Could you post a screenshot of the stability/Domestics screen.

 

[Wessel V1]

The first one. The other civs have this one usually around 0, Burgundy in the end at -30. The second box usually grows to +30, for all civs.

 

[jessiecat]

It has been couple of months sine I last worked on the foreign relations. IIRC the main contribution was Wars vs Neutral vs OB vs Defense Pacts. I will double check, it could actually be a bug.

On the civic screen, which one of the boxes is low, the first or the second one (or both). Could you post a screenshot of the stability/Domestics screen.

Sure. What do you mean 1st. or 2nd.? Foriegn is the last box. On this shot I've just gone up to 0 although the foriegn base no. is still low. And I have only 1 star. I've only ever had this problem with Burgundy. I've included the saved game and the previous autosave too in case you want to check them out.

 

[3Miro]

Sure. What do you mean 1st. or 2nd.? Foriegn is the last box. On this shot I've just gone up to 0 although the foriegn base no. is still low. And I have only 1 star. I've only ever had this problem with Burgundy. I've included the saved game and the previous autosave too in case you want to check them out.

OK the problem is the -26. This is actually still Rhye's code. This number is decremented every time you loose a city by trade (probably not an issue in your case) and every time you win/loose combat. If you fight too many wars and the ratio of wins vs looses is less than 2 to 1 you will loose stability. The actual formula is more complicated but this is the oversimplification.

 

[jessiecat]

OK the problem is the -26. This is actually still Rhye's code. This number is decremented every time you loose a city by trade (probably not an issue in your case) and every time you win/loose combat. If you fight too many wars and the ratio of wins vs looses is less than 2 to 1 you will loose stability. The actual formula is more complicated but this is the oversimplification.

I see. Except in my case I had no combat to win or lose as I was never at war except for a few turns in the beginning. I did capture one city but lost no troops. That no. was about -26 long before that.. It started going down when I got Feudalism and changed civics to Electorate and Feudal Law. Something isn't right here.

Anyway I've played on until 1400 and got the 2nd. UHV condition. Though stability has stayed in minus until the GA. Funny enough I'll win the UHV now but I think the early instability seems specific in Burgundy's code. I've never had any such instability with any other civ.

 

[Lexad]

1. As I reported in the other thread, there was a bug with Stefan I of Hungary not opening borders despite being Friendly, motivating that he didn't like me enough. I went to CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml, the requirement was <OpenBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</OpenBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold>, requiring us to be Pleased iirc, which I clearly outperformed. So I switched it to ATTITUDE_ANNOYED and OBorders went active in the game. This is clearly a temporary fix, but until we figure out what caused the bug in the first place, I propose using this fix.

2. Also Stephen declared on me while being Friendly, despite not being able to plan war since Pleased (NoWarAttitudeProb = 100), and that was for some 80 turns already.

3. Sieging Independent Constantinople. Defense +225%. 5 bombards... bombard, zero effect - still +225%. NB: it had Theodossian Walls.
Edit: got it. Walls+castle+Theodossian = 0 bombardment effect. Should it be that way? Bombard is gunpowder-based, and all those rocks should have effect on pre-gunpowder only.
Used WB to put bombard, Turkish great bombard and field artillery to Ephesus. Only Turkish one ignores walls, others behave as pre-gunpowder.

4. Took Ephesus, proposed to return it to the Kingdom of Germany (vassal of mine). Hehe.

 

[Lexad]

One more: regular knight units receive defensive bonus; Boyars and winged hussars do not.

Edit: and one more - musketmen and cuirassiers do not ignore walls and castles (they do in classic BtS).

 

[Lexad]

Cuirassiers ignore rough terrain (while moving)

Can't move large (e.g. 12-size) stacks for more than 1 tile at a time, have to split.

 

[3Miro]

Cuirassiers ignore rough terrain (while moving)

Can't move large (e.g. 12-size) stacks for more than 1 tile at a time, have to split.

This is either a Firaxis or RFC bug. I have seen it outside RFC:Europe, but I am not sure if it was in RFC or regular BtS.

 

[Lexad]

I've never seen this before, thus reporting.

Another bug (or feature unknow to me) I encountered: all Swedish units, even ships and workers, have antihorse promotion.

 

[3Miro]

I've never seen this before, thus reporting.

Another bug (or feature unknow to me) I encountered: all Swedish units, even ships and workers, have antihorse promotion.

I am trying to keep things as flexible as possible. The UP states that when a new unit is build, it gets promotion X. To limit Formation promotion to land units only, I will have to add another check to everything and if I ma to keep things flexible I will have to make more changes. I will probably fix it eventually, but for now it makes no difference anyway, so there is no point to change.

 

[merijn_v1]

I've never seen this before, thus reporting.

Another bug (or feature unknow to me) I encountered: all Swedish units, even ships and workers, have antihorse promotion.

It's their UP. But I think the Workers and ships don't have to get that promotion. But with the Cordoban UP I think they should get the promotion. (even workers)

 

[3Miro]

It's their UP. But I think the Workers and ships don't have to get that promotion. But with the Cordoban UP I think they should get the promotion. (even workers)

It makes only an aesthetic difference. Ships and work ersnever fight against mounted units anyway.

 

[jessiecat]

Burgundy
1. Control the Rhine Valley in 1200AD
2, Do not lose a city to Germans or Franks before 1400AD
3. Control 6 luxury resources in 1500AD (was 1600)*

France
1. Control the historic area of France in 1500AD
2. Build the Monastery of Cluny, Notre Dame and Versailles*(new)
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies*(changed)

Byzantines
1. Make Constantinople the largest and most cultural city in Europe in 1000AD
2. Control Constantinople, Greece and Anatolia in 1300AD
3. Be the richest empire in the world in 1400AD*(was 1500)

Arabia
1. Control the Levant, Antioch, Aleppo and Egypt in 1000AD
2. Control all of North Africa east of Oran in 1500AD*(was 1700)
3. Never lose a city before 1500AD*(new)

Bulgaria no changes

Cordoba
1. Make Cordoba the most populous city in the world in 1000AD
2. Never lose a city to Spain or Portugal before 1500AD*(new)
3. Build La Mezquita, the Alhambra and the Gardens of Al Andalus*(new)

Spain
1. Conquer Cordoba, control Portugal and have 2 cities in Italy by 1600AD*(changed)
2. Allow no non-Catholic religion in Iberia by 1650AD
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies*(changed)

The Norse
1. Have a city in France, Britain, Ireland, Iceland and Sicily by 1300AD*(changed)
2. Control Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland (at least 1 city each) by 1400AD*(new)
3. Build 1 trading company and 3 colonies*(new)

Venice
1. Control the Dalmation coast and have a city in mainland Greece, Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus in 1500AD*(changed)
2. Build Marco Polo's Embassy, the Basilica San Marco and Leonardo's Inventions*(new)
3. Control 10 luxury resources in 1600AD*(changed)

Kievan Rus
1. Control 8 grain resources (wheat or barley) in 1300AD*(changed)
2. Control the Black Sea coast in 1400AD*(changed)
3. Build 2 Orthodox cathedrals and 8 Orthodox monasteries by 1500AD*(changed)

Hungary
1. Control all territory between the Adriatic and the Carpathians north of Constantinople by 1500AD*(changed)
2. Never lose a city to barbarians, Byzantines or Ottomans by 1600AD*(changed)
3. Research Liberalism and adopt Free Religion by 1650AD*(changed)

Germany no changes

Poland
1. Never lose a city to Germany, Kievan Rus or Moscow before 1500AD*(changed)
2. Build 2 Catholic cathedrals and 8 Catholic monasteries before 1600AD
3. Be the most populous country in Europe in 1650AD*(changed)

Genoa
1. Control Corsica, Sardinia, Marseilles and Milano by 1500AD*(changed)
2. Control the above plus Sicily, Cyprus and Crete in 1600AD*(changed)
3. Build 1 banking corporation with branches and banks in 8 cities*(new)

England
1. Control the British Isles and Ireland and have 2 cities in France in 1600AD*(changed)
2. Be the first to reach the Industrial Age
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies

Portugal
1. Build 6 cities west of Iberia by 1500AD*(new)
2. Never lose a city before 1600AD
3. Build 1 trading company and 3 colonies*(changed)

Austria
1. Control area between Adriatic and the Carpathians north of the Danube by 1600AD*(changed)
2. Have at least 3 vassals in 1650AD
3. Have 2 defensive alliances in 1700AD

Ottomans
1. Control Constantinople and Anatolia in 1500AD
2. Control the Balkans south of the Danube and Vienna in 1600AD*(changed)
3. Control the Levant and Egypt in 1700AD*(changed)

Sweden
1. Control Sweden and Finland in 1600AD*(changed)
2. Have 2 cities east of the Baltic and 1 south of the Baltic in 1650AD*(changed)
3. Never lose a city before 1700AD*(new)

Netherlands
1. Have open borders with 10 civs in 1650AD
2. Build 5 Great Merchants
3. Build the East India Company and 3 colonies by 1750*(changed)

 

[BurnEmDown]

Arabia

3. Never lose a city to barbarians, Byzantines or crusaders*(new)

I assume it's until 1500?

 

[Wessel V1]

I like most of them, although I'd like to make some changes. Portugal, for example, has to build 3 cities by 1500 AD, so they have app. 120 turns to build them. In RFC, this is the number of turns between 600 AD and 1600 AD. So the time to build them, is huge. And I suppose that, if you don't want to conquer Spain or Cordoba, you'd settle these areas anyway. So, maybe the goal should be changed to: settle 10 cities at least 20 (suggestion) tiles from Lisboa, by 1400 or 1500 AD.

Also, we should not forget that most of the goals in RFC were designed to stimulate an active playing style. China for example requires some serious planning. Of course some things could go wrong, but the player had to use strategies that he wouldn't use in a normal game. Who would ever try to ruin his economy only to build 120 units and 2 cathedrals? In short, I think that the goals should be designed to direct the player in a certain way, that gives victory. The Turkish goal (control some large areas) is a goal that I like very much. The player is forced to ruin his economy, and he has some stability problems, but the reward is victory.

The main difference at the moment is not that the goal is too easy, but that there is so much time to achieve it. Cathedrals require a tech to enable them, but that tech is not very advanced. It doesn't take so much time to build them either, so the goal is relatively easy. In my opinion, the best, and probably easiest, way to make this goal harder is to find out how much time it takes, with a normal playing style, to build the cathedrals, and make the goal 30 years softer.

In general: I like most goals, but I still think some of them are (way) too easy. But I think it is simply a matter of time that this will be resolved, so nothing to worry about!