Rhye's of Europe Code Coordination thread

[Úmarth]

I'm done talking to you jessiecat. You're resorting to blatant lies, it's plain for everyone to see that even if you didn't know D. Zavotell had done one for Spain ljnavy was.

Remember we're focusing on the Medieval period, Toaster. I can't comment on anywhere else without research but in terms of Northern England: Newcastle, Blackpool, Leeds, Grimsby, Manchester and Hull weren't important until the industrial revolution and Liverpool only grew at the very end of the period we're covering. I'll have to look into suitable Medieval cities nearby.

Oh and it's Norwich not Norwitch.

 

[jessiecat]

Thanks for that. Great start! Unlike Umarth who prefers being arrogant and misrepresenting
everything I've said and tried to achieve. I've already been rightly corrected by our moderator and will contribute in other directions. I hope to continue to help in this project as it means a lot to me. Welcome aboard.

 

[st.lucifer]

Is that all you can come up with? I never said I couldn't do settler maps. I did say that I did not know how to read the map you posted because it was in code. And that I made a settler map of Spain because NONE had been posted, to my knowledge. And I did suggest I could do something else, but never criticized other people's work or ideas any more than you have done. Perhaps you could try reading what I wrote and spend less time trying to insult me than you have so far in actually doing the legwork you always keep talking about.
If you've contributed so much more than everybody else, why haven't we seen it?
Anyway, I'm not answerable to you. We already have a leader. I prefer to talk
to the organ-grinder not the monkey.

In 40+ years of studying history, did the inadvisability of calling people monkeys never come up? Particularly when you, and everyone else, is dependent on said 'monkey' to get the thing running? I don't always completely understand what my mechanic does to my car, but I know better than to call him a monkey.

Umarth had valid points, and your unwillingness to take criticism (some justified, some less so) has turned this thread into a pissing match. If you'd like to contribute, I'd like to have you, but please focus on areas of need rather than writing over and putting down the work of others.

 

[st.lucifer]

Toaster, thanks for the map. A couple of suggestions: I'd favor all of the squares in the Greater London area simply 'London'. This doesn't apply to Oxford or Canterbury, but to the smaller towns around it - while there are unlikely to be cities founded in those spaces (would require London to be razed and rebuilt), it just doesn't seem quite right to have the capital of England be Crawley or Luton. Second, as Umarth said, much of the North grew only in the industrial era, which is about where we get off. I'm fine with keeping Liverpool and Grimsby (which I remember as being a more important medieval than modern city); I might eliminate some of the others. I'd also lean towards importance rather than perfect geographical accuracy on many of these - while we have that option available to us, again it would be weird to have an England dominated by the cities of Preston, Torquay, Prestwick, etc. I may do some more tweaking to ensure that the good city sites are more obvious - one of the changes that was going in on the next model of the map involved moving the swamps around Norwich further west, and I don't remember where exactly we were putting York (I'll look it up.)

Thanks again, and I'd love to see this done for some of the less familiar areas of Europe - Scandinavia, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, etc.

 

[jessiecat]

I'm done talking to you jessiecat. You're resorting to blatant lies, it's plain for everyone to see that even if you didn't know D. Zavotell had done one for Spain ljnavy was.

Remember we're focusing on the Medieval period, Toaster. I can't comment on anywhere else without research but in terms of Northern England: Newcastle, Blackpool, Leeds, Grimsby, Manchester and Hull weren't important until the industrial revolution and Liverpool only grew at the very end of the period we're covering. I'll have to look into suitable Medieval cities nearby.

Oh and it's Norwich not Norwitch.

It's not me that's telling lies. If you bothered to check, I posted my suggested Spain map about 24 hours after ljnavy did his, as a suggested revision of his own. Read the posts. He didn't have a problem with that. You obviously do. And neither of us could read the link you posted of D. Zavotell's suggestions.
BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MAP!

It's not me that's been disruptive but YOU! And here you go again. Talkie Toaster has posted his own England settler map and what do you do? You attack it! Because it's not historically accurate? Exactly what you criticized me for doing. Without knowledge of previous discussions, how's he to know what, if anything, has been decided? Does he have your psychic qualities?

I'm through with you too. I'm sure you have many modding skills which will enable you to contribute greatly. But you're knowledge of history is very limited in my view. Your ability to digest what someone has actually said without taking their words out of context is again questionable.
And your treatment of other peoples's abilities, opinions and contributions is, at best, arrogant and dismissive, without the relevant expertise and experience to back it up. I'm happy to have no further dealings with you.
You get on and do what you can do best and I will try to do the same.
My apologies to any of you interested in this project as this ridiculous bickering is irrelevant to the task at hand and not welcomed by me.
Any future contributions I intend to make will be in the Discussion thread, as appropriate.

 

[ijnavy]

I would be willing to make one for Russia/Ukraine. I did a settler map for France already, so if anyone needs it I can post it.

 

[jessiecat]

I would be willing to make one for Russia/Ukraine. I did a settler map for France already, so if anyone needs it I can post it.

I hope you didn't think I tried to step on your toes when I posted a revision of your Spain settler map. Just my opinion. Historical revision will come much later I think. I intend on working on Turkey and the Balkans as suggested by st. lucifer. Future posts for the Discussion thread, as I've said.

 

[jessiecat]

In 40+ years of studying history, did the inadvisability of calling people monkeys never come up? Particularly when you, and everyone else, is dependent on said 'monkey' to get the thing running? I don't always completely understand what my mechanic does to my car, but I know better than to call him a monkey.

Umarth had valid points, and your unwillingness to take criticism (some justified, some less so) has turned this thread into a pissing match. If you'd like to contribute, I'd like to have you, but please focus on areas of need rather than writing over and putting down the work of others.

You may have misunderstood. I used a very traditional English phrase which is not intended literally. All it implies is that I'd rather take direction from the designated person in charge rather than another person, like myself, who is a contributer. And as a socialist, I hope I would never describe a skilled worker in those terms. Quite the opposite. I hope that Umarth, as an English person, understood the context.
I hope I can take criticism even when not deserved, and I have tried to be polite throughout. But when some of the criticism has been factually wrong and deliberately hurtful I can become defensive and lash out in response. It is a human fault, and I am guilty of it. That being said, I don't wish to argue any further and would be happy to carry on contributing, as you suggest.

 

[Talkie_Toaster]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get to work eliminating the industrial towns. I was working from a contemporary map, and selected the most populous town of a given area, which is why some "unimportant" cities might have crept in. Any suggestions on what I replace most of the north with? It's probably going to be as hard as Scotland (Some of the "cities" on the map have less than 10000 people!)

 

[st.lucifer]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get to work eliminating the industrial towns. I was working from a contemporary map, and selected the most populous town of a given area, which is why some "unimportant" cities might have crept in. Any suggestions on what I replace most of the north with? It's probably going to be as hard as Scotland (Some of the "cities" on the map have less than 10000 people!)

Don't take our criticism the wrong way - it's a good map and a great start. I'd have done things the same way. As far as historical cities in N. England go, I'd look for castle towns in Northumbria, Leicestershire, Lancashire, Yorkshire, and the surrounding areas - there may not be quite enough to go around, but I'd guess that would get you halfway there. There's also a good series of historical maps here, although it's somewhat limited in detail and specific information: http://www.euratlas.com/time1.htm

Also, it's ok to have the really important cities (London, York, Edinburgh, etc.) cover more than one square.

 

[Rhye]

you should all calm down.
If you work with order, you won't have this kind of problems:

what's the map? Is the "turned right" one the final one?
In that case, try to create an excel template, and use it freely. One of you, like Umarth, could keep the maps together, gathering the single sheets from the others. With collaborations it can just improve, with no need of programming.
Try to do 2x2 squares, more detail is useless, except if there are really important cities next to each other

 

[st.lucifer]

you should all calm down.
If you work with order, you won't have this kind of problems:

what's the map? Is the "turned right" one the final one?
In that case, try to create an excel template, and use it freely. One of you, like Umarth, could keep the maps together, gathering the single sheets from the others. With collaborations it can just improve, with no need of programming.
Try to do 2x2 squares, more detail is useless, except if there are really important cities next to each other

Rhye,

This is the most recent map, with placeholders. There will be a couple of minor changes (swamps, cities appearing after start), and eventually new resources and terrain types will be placed, but this is what we're working with for now:

 

[Virdrago]

I would like to help, but my computer may not be back for another two weeks, at least.

BUT

if maps are needed by that time, I can help with Central Europe (being partially Slovak and a history buff, I do have a bit of knowledge of the Hanseatic League, Poland, and Bohemia/Moravia). I may overlap ijnavy a bit, but at least we'll know the area is completely covered. I can also do Scandinavia from Denmark to Norway and east. I know less about the Balkans, and a bit about Byzantium/Turkey, bit am willing to learn.

For now I lurk, but I would like to help when I can.

 

[st.lucifer]

I would like to help, but my computer may not be back for another two weeks, at least.

BUT

if maps are needed by that time, I can help with Central Europe (being partially Slovak and a history buff, I do have a bit of knowledge of the Hanseatic League, Poland, and Bohemia/Moravia). I may overlap ijnavy a bit, but at least we'll know the area is completely covered. I can also do Scandinavia from Denmark to Norway and east. I know less about the Balkans, and a bit about Byzantium/Turkey, bit am willing to learn.

For now I lurk, but I would like to help when I can.

That would be great. I don't think anybody has been assigned Germany (heh heh - we've argued about it long enough); I'm not sure if anyone has stepped up to do Poland, and I think jessicat is doing Bulgaria, but Austria and Hungary are still open.

Would you mind taking on Germany, Austria, and Hungary? We may need you on Scandinavia and Poland, too, but I know that the first three are unspoken for. Thanks!

 

[Virdrago]

No problem. As soon as my computer is back (I'm using an old laptop that doesn't have CD capacity right now), I'll start work.

 

[jessiecat]

To st. lucifer; Have moved to other 2 threads for future posts. See latest.

 

[Úmarth]

Alright following Rhye's suggestion I created an excel map which you may find easier to use. I've also put it on the wiki. Just add comments to cells (right click -> add comment) for the cities then add it to the wiki so other people can see it and when they're all finalised I'll convert them into code.

 

[jessiecat]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get to work eliminating the industrial towns. I was working from a contemporary map, and selected the most populous town of a given area, which is why some "unimportant" cities might have crept in. Any suggestions on what I replace most of the north with? It's probably going to be as hard as Scotland (Some of the "cities" on the map have less than 10000 people!)

Thanks from me for great maps. I'm concentrating on the Balkans now starting with Bulgaria
then the Byzantines. I see you've posted a Worldbuilder screenshot. I can't seem to do that.
Any suggestions?

 

[ijnavy]

This is kinda off topic, but how about adding the Mongols as a civ?

 

[jessiecat]

This is kinda off topic, but how about adding the Mongols as a civ?

Actually I'm using the Mongols as a template for the Bulgars, similiar but about to settle in the Balkans in 630AD. See were I've started to develop them in the Discussions thread.