River Trade Routes

[Benford's Law]

To all,
I have searched *everywhere* in the War Academy, the forums, and my rulebooks (playing BTS 3.13) for the true, right answer to this question.

When a city is placed on a corner square next to a river (ie. diagonal to a bend in the river, but not alongside it), does it still qualify for a trade route with other cities along the same river?
How about cities that are at the end of a river (ie. the corner of a city tile touches the very end of the river)?
Do end-of-river cities and river corner cities qualify for river-related improvements? Which ones?

Out of hundreds of War Academy guides and seemingly hundreds of thousands of posts on CivFanatics, this post by DaveMcW was the only one I could find on this simple topic:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3402126&postcount=31

I wish, however, I had some more reading that would back this up for sure...

I wish I had a screenshot with markings for this...but I'm hoping everyone can visualize what I'm asking.

Thanks again for any insight. This forum has been SO helpful to me!

~Benford's Law

 

[KMadCandy]

trade routes and levee-building work on river corners. end of a river doesn't, when it's really the end.

if the tile is getting a commerce from being by the river, it's "by the river" enough to qualify. DaveMcW wasn't sure about hydro plants, so neither was i, but i tested it and they're available on river corners too.

you can't see the commerce the river would give you if there's a forest there, but you can check for fresh water access. if the tile doesn't say fresh water, that's easy, you know it's not considered by the river, so no levee, and you'd have to build a road to trade. but even if it does say fresh water, the source might be a lake or oasis so i get it wrong sometimes, trying to figure out where to put a city so that i can build a levee in it later on. seeing the extra commerce from the river makes it a lot easier, pesky forests.

i think that's what you're asking, anyway?

you can't build watermills on river corners. i didn't find out for months that the order you build watermills in can determine how many you can build. because of the "can't be right next to each other" rule, if the river has enough twists and turns, and if you micromanage it you can encourage the first one to be on the perfect side of the river so that the next one lines up to let you build one more than you could if the first was on the other side. but i can't micro that enough, i just build 'em or i don't.

 

[Seven05]

The easiest way to check is to see if the tile has fresh water before plopping the city down. If it does (and there isn't a fresh water lake or oasis adjacent to it as well) that it is on the river and will receive the trade bonus. If you've already built the city you can still mouse-over the plot to see if it has fresh water.

There is some inconsistency in riverside plots though, but it's been so long since I played a vanila game I couldn't say what they are exactly with any certainty.

Edit: Erm... beat to the punch by a perma noob, whats the world coming too

 

[DigitalBoy]

I know for a fact that "corner tiles" at the beginning of rivers do NOT count as fresh water tiles. Corner tiles where the river empties out into the ocean are fresh water tiles though.

The easiest way to tell if a tile receives fresh water from a river is to see if it gets the +1 commerce bonus. Also if you hover your cursor over the tile, fresh water should appear in the info section (where it appears on the screen escapes me at the moment).

 

[KMadCandy]

i had actually popped into WB to post screenies of a test (had the game running already) but when i got back, Seven05 had posted too so i didn't figure they were needed. but i'll put 'em in anyway, because DigitalBoy has confused me. in my second example, i'm at the end of a river. but the corner tiles there (plains 1N and grassland 1NE are getting the commerce, and they would count as on the river . how can you be on the corner and at the end of a river?

edit: OH! i got it, added a third picture.

Spoiler :

end of a river. this city can't build a levee or a hydro plant, and won't be connected until i build a road.


this one's on the corner, and it can build a levee or a hydro plant. well, if and when it gets any production, that is.

no, i'd never really place these oh-so-lovely cities and have them at such high pop with no tile improvements . i just started a duel map future start game to place sample cities *giggle*.


corner at the end end/beginning of a river that i think DigitalBoy is talking about. i have my cursor over the plains forest at the bottom. you can see it just says Forest/Plains but doesn't say Fresh Water. a city placed on that tile wouldn't get to build a hydro plant or a levee.

 

[Benford's Law]

To anyone,
I have read everyone's posts and appreciate your answers, so here's a good question closely related to what was just discussed:

I started up a new game and *LO and BEHOLD*....here's a stone resource (circled in red). I move my cursor over it and see it is fresh water even though the corner of the tile is at the end of a small river connecting the city to the northwest. So, if a worker builds a quarry on that tile it would automatically connect to that city? If this is true, does that mean that other cities connected by road to this city would also get the stone resource even though there was no road on this stone resource tile?
(It would almost seem like a road would never be needed for this tile in the ancient era if all of what I just asked was true....)

Just Curious! Thanks all...

~Benford's Law

 

[Verge]

So, if a worker builds a quarry on that tile it would automatically connect to that city? If this is true, does that mean that other cities connected by road to this city would also get the stone resource even though there was no road on this stone resource tile?
(It would almost seem like a road would never be needed for this tile in the ancient era if all of what I just asked was true....)

Just Curious! Thanks all...

~Benford's Law

You are correct on all counts.

 

[Yva!n]

The one thing that annoys me about the map scripts, is how many times my starting city is placed right between the headwaters of a river (not connected to the river for trading purposes) and a lake. I appreciate the fresh water and all, but it would be so much more useful if the river originated in the lake (Lake Victoria-style).

 

[CyberChrist]

So, if a worker builds a quarry on that tile it would automatically connect to that city? If this is true, does that mean that other cities connected by road to this city would also get the stone resource even though there was no road on this stone resource tile?

Yes x2.

In Vanilla a plot like that doesn't count as being next to a river (no trade network by river, no extra river commerce and no fresh water), but in both Warlords and BTS it does.

 

[JujuLautre]

I don't know exactly what it implies, but in BTS you need sailing to be able to use rivers for commerce

 

[Benford's Law]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think you can use rivers for commerce *within your own cultural borders* without sailing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

~Benford's Law

 

[DigitalBoy]

Rivers always get the +1 commerce. I'm pretty sure he's thinking about trade routes, but I think rivers connect cities even without Sailing. I think sailing's for coastal trading.

 

[LlamaCat]

no you need Sailing for trading over rivers too

ps: 1,000th post! woohoo! how anticlimatic

 

[Olleus]

It depends. In civ4 vanilla and warlords you only need fishing (or maybe even nothing, I'm not 100% sure any more), but with BtS you need sailing for river trading.