Role Play Challenge: Stagnation!

[cripp7]

How can Osaka have such a tech lead with only a few cities?

 

[Sian]

Asoka ... Osaka is a city in Japan

well ... i got a few suggestions ... Asoka turned for research (just as Mansa, HC and WK) ... Shirned Buddism holy city ... loads of commence rich tiles

 

[civvver]

I played this out after all. Three reasons:

1. Vicawoo harassed me into it. 19th mile indeed ^_^. Where was I in the game relative to that?! Oh well.

2. In discussing the strategy for this game, everyone and their mother's uncle told Mad "no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals ".

I proceeded to point out that vassals could be viable and potentially useful in a game like this. The response to that?

"no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals". Not having it! I said I'd prove it so I guess I'd better prove it. Or, at least TRY to .

3. !#@$!% I'm TMIT ------> I finish games and finish them quickly. Leaving one in limbo can cause me physical damage, unless it happens to be APG Shaka . Even that one got finished though. Eventually.

1497...1498...1499...1500 end turns later:

Spoiler :

All that said, this round isn't going to be to exciting. Rather stagnant in fact. Hatty arbitrarily left culture, prompting me to DoW her earlier than planned to ensure that the war took roughly 0 effort, micro, or thought. This meant around, say 1928. I burned her top FIVE culture cities then took peace. Modern armor vs infantry that are at 1/2 health from jet fighter/carrier beatings..........really challenging, yes? No.

I automated everything. Evertying. Even what cities build. ZZZZZZZZzz. Cathy had the best tech rate and would have challenged for space, except that before teching fiber optics or fusion she mysteriously beelined future tech and stayed there .

Nobody was a threat for culture. Hatty got a space part or two herself but never got all the needed techs prior to time expiring:

Ok. Now look. See? I HAVE NOT ONE BUT FIVE VASSALS. FIVE. Some of them quite competent (well, not really, but truthfully they never are and cathy is as close as you'll see mostly). What purpose did they serve? Eating up space without putting me over dom land, that's what. Now, let's look carefully at how close I was to losing because of vassals:

Pretty easy to block space. Especially since I had well over 300,000 espionage on cathy, just in case I needed to sabotage an entire damn ship. Never needed to, stealing techs from me was pretty hard for her.

VCs:

Hmmmm. After burning hatty's top 5 cities, guess what? Even now my vassals aren't on the radar. Let's see why:

Cathy's best city. I sure feel threatened by culture. You saw izzy's in the last segment. Well, I used the UN to try to pass FR a lot, which izzy, hatty, and zara would defy for a long time. Izzy got kicked down to pop 1 for her entire empire for a long time. She's even further back than cathy.

Of course, Zara lost his cities very late and the other 2 don't even have 3 cities...so, no.

Hatty's #3 city:

Useless. Over 1000 turns to go to legendary.

Long game.

BY FAR, THE MOST ******** POINT IN THIS GAME WAS GLOBAL WARMING. Global warming is pretend fairy magic streaming from a body part of Al Gore's not worth mentioning on the civ forums. It's BS of the worst kind, and it has nothing to do with bulbing in this case. I'd have had well over 10000 BPT and a couple more future techs if not for GW (though I didn't try to optimize research until about 70 turns left).

About 1/4 of my entire land changed into desert. Ok, now lets see the conditions under which this !@#%#@%ing nonsense occurs:

1. Zero unhealth. That's right. Not an unhealthy city in the entire e!@#$ world. Anywhere. At all. Not in my empire, not in anyone elses.

2. Massive recycling centers and future tech > 50, I wonder if maybe pollution's a little less than in real life? Nono, guess not.

3. GLOBAL WARMING DOESNT TURN THINGS INTO DESERT AND ONLY DESERT. AT LEAST NOT REALISTIC GLOBAL WARMING.

Basically, there's no late-game prevention of a mechanic that's essentially broken in cause and result. I had one of the healthiest planets ever, and yet post 2000 GW was striking on a monthly (!) basis, and more than once it struck in 3 consecutive turns...and that's just within my territory. This is definitely a flawed mechanic and frankly I'm almost as appalled with fireaxis for leaving it in like this as I am about them choosing to lie to players using the game interface, which it does.

Anyway, there's a time win. Without wiping a single civ out. With 5 vassals. So yes, it can be done and they make it easier, not harder.

Spoiler :

Well about global warming, maybe firaxis is telling us "you know the earth was hotter 20,000 years ago, global warming is a cyclical thing and has nothing to do with human pollution and greenhouse emissions"

honestly global warming is the worst thing ever in civ games, I wonder how you could mod it out...

ps does anyone miss terraforming from civ2? I love changing all my deserts to grasslands and really pushing the population limits

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can mod GW out in the global defines. Set the odds to 0 or whatever.

What I hate about it most is its EFFECT. GW doesn't turn RANDOM tiles in the world into DESERT. That's utter nonsense. Global precipitation would likely not fall at all...global warming =/= less water. If anything there would be more water if you're melting caps.

The way it works in the game really is more like a magic spell than anything simulating reality. Somebody casts "DESERT CLOUD" on your tile. Spell succeeds! Tile is now desert! 10 MP cost. Limit 3 uses/turn.

Al Gore probably drools though.

 

[Ormur]

I also find it very funny that you can chop the whole amazon away in game and nothing happens but a few nukes and unhealthiness turn the world into a desert. If you can't implement it realistically, skip it.

 

[JammerUno]

It should turn riverside tundra into floodplains.

 

[Kesshi]

What I hate about it most is its EFFECT. GW doesn't turn RANDOM tiles in the world into DESERT. That's utter nonsense. Global precipitation would likely not fall at all...global warming =/= less water. If anything there would be more water if you're melting caps.

The way it works in the game really is more like a magic spell than anything simulating reality. Somebody casts "DESERT CLOUD" on your tile. Spell succeeds! Tile is now desert! 10 MP cost. Limit 3 uses/turn.

Al Gore probably drools though.

TheMeInTeam,

Did you ever play Civ1?* It had a global warming mechanic that I kinda liked. Cities produced pollution if they had too much production. However your "Workers" could remove the polution, much like in Civ4 they can Scrub Fallout. Nukes also caused pollution after they were launched. Usually 3 to 5 of the 8 squares around where the nuke hit would be polluted.

*or was it Civ2 or both of them?

If there was too much pollution in the world, the coastal lands would start to flood over. I forget the exact effects of what would happen, but I remember them starting off coastally, and it making those tiles fairly useless.

There was also a pollution meter on the right hand side of the screen. I think it was supposed to display the ozone layer depleting or something. Whatever it was, it changed colours depending on how much pollution was in the world so it could give you an early indication of global warming.

I remember one game where I got really mad and launched off a bunch of nukes in tons of places. About 3 turns later the entire world was flooded with what looked like marshlands everywhere. heh

 

[Ai Shizuka]

I think it was Civ 2, when global warming actually made some sense. Like grassland turning into jungle or plains becoming deserts. And coastal tiles flooded by sea.
All related to the number of polluted tiles in the world.

And I'm pretty sure there was at least 2 warnings when global warming was about to strike.

 

[madscientist]

Stagnation!: Part V

You want battle! You want Blodd! You want backstabbing! You want carnage!!!

Well, go find another posted game. This is STAGNATION and another uneventful segment although I think it may be time to start things going in the next segment.

First of all, forgive me if I forget something. I was posting this segment last night when the electricity went out, so I am trying to get it off from work by memory! So I will not be attaching the game until later tonight.

Techpath: Steam Power/liberalism/nationalism/constitution/corporation/assembly line

Looking at the techs

And you see why we went for liberalism although I think I could have gotten Assembly Line off of it, and certainly would have tried (Yes I DID want to!). However, looks to me that Asoka traded away education to anyone he could.

We popped a Great Scientist next

Which we used for a Golden Age (with our saved Great Prophet).

Very soon we finish liberalism

Opted for Steel!

And as we have steel and rifles right now, the rest of the world

Hmmm.......

After liberalism we adjusted civics during the Golden Age

I stayed in theology because I like that extra +2 XP.

And finally, after rampaging out privateers arround the world, we pop our first GG

Which we settled in the Heroic Epic City.

I should mention that after Steam Power

Now that is not good enough, we have no coal yet that upstart Ethiopian has two, and he has pretty week lands. More on that later.

We next got a Great Merchant

Which we used for a 5100 gold trade mission. Note all those troops in Gilgamesh's capital. More on that also later.

Now there have been several colonies that have popped up, but when I see this

I simply want to scream!

Then soon, this peaceful world end abruptly

Apparently that very old trade to get Cathy to declare War on Gilgamesh finally bared some fruit after all! I was concerned about Cathy as she Vassaled Hatty (and Asoka I think) and I was thinking that she's getting a little too big. Gilgamesh certainly put the smackdown, taking some key Russian cities AND drastically reducing her power numbers.

Right after we got this

Now I saw the lone Galleon and figured she must be dropping spies or missionaries. Surely she's not attacking with one ship. Sure enough, she suicided 3 knights against a coastal city, I sunk her Galeon, and she gave me 80 gold for peace 10 turns later.

In the meanwhile, as we approach Assembly Line I have been building CR II maces from the HE city, And once we AL and the 5100 gold we simply upgraded them to infantry.

I saved here mostly because

Very nice fleet we have to prepare to attack, but note that lone Ethiopian caravel. well, it's not alone and there are numerous Galleons there. As Zara "Has Enough on his hands" AND the fatc that the stack is in our waters right now, he is sending those troops off to attack maybe Gilgamesh. And here I am, sitting right there with a host of Frigates at my beckoning, with a strong invasion force just waiting for someone to invade!!!!

A view of the tech situation

We are teching off Scientific Method right now so I can see if I need to steal, I mena "Borrow" oil from someone. Very nice that we have infantry while NOONE even has replaceable parts for rifling!!!! Nor Chemistry for frigates. Hording techs and resisting those tech trades can sometimes really pay off!!!

So two main questions

1) Do I ambush the ethiopian fleet right now, heal my frigates and go and destroy him for his coal. Or do I let him simply attack who he planned to expelling his forces there, then send our invasion force to destroy him. Either way, Mehmed wants some coal!

2) Techpath: OK, some preferences on how we terrorize the world!!! At this point I am seriously considering teching to combustion and fascism, swapping to Police State and spend to rest of the game simply destroying all of the AIs coastal cities until we win a time victory and/or get nukes. Or is that simply MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nbcman]

@ madscientist

I would keep a frigate/caravel trailing the Ethiopian fleet and hope that the Ethiopians attack Gilgamesh. Then attack the Ethiopians to take the coal and gain mutual military struggle diplo benefits with Gilly.

I would build Marines too so you can hit and run coastal cities.

 

[UWHabs]

The way I see it, the rest of the world is teching decently, so everyone should finish up the tech tree eventually. Which means, at the end of the game, everyone will be at relative tech parity. So since you have an edge now, I'd definitely consider invading someone.

At this point, I think you can afford to capture a few people and be under the domination threshold. So it's definitely time to invade. I'd say if Zara is going after Gilgamesh, you let them fight for 5 or 10 turns, and then turn against one of them. So either you go invade Zara's homeland while his troops are away, or you join with him and take out Gilgamesh.

But the key is that while you have a significant edge (infantry against non-rifles, you hardly even need to take out city defenses first), strike. So take out people now with infantry, then when they get rifles, strike again once you get tanks. 2 opponents gone should give you enough of a score edge to ride it out to the end, with your strategic strikes if people are approaching a victory condition.

 

[huerfanista]

I'd return the galleons to port so they can load up your invasion forces. Follow Zara's fleet with your frigates, and after they unload on their target you can declare and wipe out all of his galleons, stranding his army overseas and pretty much eliminating his ability to either support his initial attack or retaliate against you (plus gaining easy XP for your frigates).

 

[Der Graf]

So two main questions

1) Do I ambush the ethiopian fleet right now, heal my frigates and go and destroy him for his coal. Or do I let him simply attack who he planned to expelling his forces there, then send our invasion force to destroy him. Either way, Mehmed wants some coal!

2) Techpath: OK, some preferences on how we terrorize the world!!! At this point I am seriously considering teching to combustion and fascism, swapping to Police State and spend to rest of the game simply destroying all of the AIs coastal cities until we win a time victory and/or get nukes. Or is that simply MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Backstab Zara
2. It's not madness, it's just consistent

 

[Joshua368]

By the way, you should probably trade some non-monopoly techs to Isabella for Military Tradition, maybe picking up Divine Right too (in case you capture Versailles or Spiral Minaret)

 

[CreeDakota]

Track his fleet, let him declare, backstab, raze all his cities except capital and coal.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Keep teching military, keep attacking new targets, Keep them all in the dark ages for as long as you can.

Let ridiculous MUAHAHAHAHAA laughter fill the boards!

 

[Diamondeye]

Why wait? Why not simply batter the Ethiopian fleet into submission now and go on a rampage invading the entire continent? I mean, the guy's got Coal. And his Oromos might be dangerous, but wait till they're upgraded, they'll be a PITA. Wipe the floor with Zara Yaqob, asap!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Track his fleet, let him declare, backstab, raze all his cities except capital and coal.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Keep teching military, keep attacking new targets, Keep them all in the dark ages for as long as you can.

Let ridiculous MUAHAHAHAHAA laughter fill the boards!

IMO he should keep some cities, just being sure not to trip domination. He's nowhere near that right now though.

 

[carl corey]

A really funny way to do this would be to capture all coastal cities from a few AIs and make sure they can't get a settler on a boat anymore, then simply raze every city of the other AIs and let the land go to the barbs.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

A really funny way to do this would be to capture all coastal cities from a few AIs and make sure they can't get a settler on a boat anymore, then simply raze every city of the other AIs and let the land go to the barbs.

Hahahahahaha. That's pretty cool. If I wasn't hell bent on proving a point (and if I'd heard of it earlier) I'd have done it.

 

[carl corey]

You proved your point quite nicely, by the way. I just thought of it or I would have posted it earlier. I remembered how I used to treat water maps in Age of Empires: raze every dock and every ship and simply take down the AIs one by one. What's the use of having 200 knights if you can't get them to me?