Role Play Challenge: Stagnation!

[Mister Giggles]

I may be off on fallout figures, but the degree of fallout is entirely dependant on what you want to do. Higher up means more fallout over a wider area, closer to the ground means more destruction. Granted, given the power of modern nukes, it's a moot point for the people involved. They're dead.

By the way, it also depends on WHOSE nukes you're talking about. US has smaller, cleaner nukes. Russia has bigger, dirtier nukes, mainly because they can't hit the broad side of a barn with their targetting systems and therefore need to assure they still wipe of the target even if they're off 10 miles.

 

[Kesshi]

I think the global warming turning tiles into desert is a reflection on the land becoming useless, not becoming hot and dry, just useless. I would care as much about GW in the game if there was a realistic way of countering it, or some way of seeing the areas that will be affected beforehand.

Scrubbing radiation is even worse than GW though, it can't be done.

JammerUno,

In one of my OCC games where I was using cottages, Global Warming happening on one of my Riverside Towns. It leveled the Town. The surrounding tiles were unaffected. Does that make sense?

Same game, Global Warming happened on one of my Hills. It destroyed the Mine, so I rebuilt the mine. Sure it was -2 Hammers than before, but a Desert Hill with a Mine and a Railroad is far from useless.

 

[JammerUno]

In one of my OCC games where I was using cottages, Global Warming happening on one of my Riverside Towns. It leveled the Town. The surrounding tiles were unaffected. Does that make sense?

Same game, Global Warming happened on one of my Hills. It destroyed the Mine, so I rebuilt the mine. Sure it was -2 Hammers than before, but a Desert Hill with a Mine and a Railroad is far from useless.

The fact that there's no logic behind GW is a drawback, sure, it would be superior if already present deserts grew larger, or coastal landtiles would flood. But you can't have it all. I think GW would be best eliminated from the game, as long as there's no depletion of resources, why include this enviromental thing.

As fallout is concerned; fusion is far less prone to fallout than fission, but even if you reduce the relative fallout by 99%, if you then increase the power of the bomb by 200 000%, you still have a nominal increase. The most powerful nuke ever was the 50 Mts 'Tsar Bomba, which they reduced in power from 100 Mts, I quote wikipedia reluctantly, but "It has been estimated that detonating the original 100 Mt design would have released fallout amounting to about 25 percent of all fallout emitted since the invention of nuclear weapons.".
Something like Chernobyl is worse still, because there's alot of other material surrounding the blast, like massive blocks of graphite.

 

[NoDot]

Given a 60 megaton nuke (If I recall, the 'average' in the US arsenal; Russia has 'em bigger),

i think you mean "kiloton." The largest nuke on record was the 50 megaton Tsar Bomb. Nukes that size are too large and unwieldy to use, however.

And let's not forget the fallout.[/quote]Fallout comes from matter getting sucked up into the fireball and getting irradiated. Unless it's a ground burst, fallout is irrelevant.

Then you're left with thousand/ten of thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions/tens of millions (Depending on where the bomb went off) of people dead, dying, or horrifically mutilated for the rest of their lives due to the bomb and the fallout.

Fun fact: drop a nuke on London. 95% of the infrastructure remains intact (or easily repairable), and 80% of the population survives. It's a Get-Rich-Quick scheme/joke in The Business.

If anything, nukes in Civ IV don't do enough.

Agreed. Nukes should perhaps destroy cities, letting the game properly simulate The Nuclear Game.

 

[madscientist]

Update coming! 580 turns left and the fun is only beginning!!

Regarding Global Warming in BTS, I always thought it was directly related to Nuclear activity. It occurs without dropping nukes because the AIs Nuclear Plants meltdown periodically.

Either way, I will test this out one way or another. Either keep all the AIs off of Nuclear Plants or Just nuke the entire world and see if I can actually still win the game with an empire of desert!

 

[cripp7]

maybe desert warfare.. good luck Mad

 

[madscientist]

Stagnation!: Part VII

We started this segment with one goal in mind and ended up deviating from that original plan a bit.

To start we finished one of the happiness wonders

Which helps and keep us off the culture slider as we have jails, Police State, and finished Mount Rushmore.

Next, let's discuss the techpath: Communism/Flight/Radio/Rocketry/Fission/Artillery/Biology/start refridgeration.

After Communism we adjust civics.

We got this random event

I would like to tell you what I took, but to be honest I forgot!!!!!!

So let's get into the Meat of the segment

Summerian Barbeque!

My plan was to simply chop away at Gilgamesh's coastal cities, but that plan changed. Oh we razed alot of Summerian coastal cities which I will not bore you all with but we were simply getting nowehere and old Gilgamesh is still the biggest tech threat. Meanwhile Zara and his one island city decided on a little restribution

We ignored him and got peace later.

We also finally finished this wonder

And another random event that I do remember what I did

Took choice #2 which gaves us +5 commerce per harbor. The other upgraded all gunpowder units to march which I did not think I needed.

we fianlly got arround to dragging our fleet to the last Indian city

Which we razed! At this point I decided to just attack Gilgamesh's core cities via land and eliminate him from the game. Too many good tank units were getting killed in amphibious assaults and we do have bombers now.

The first city we got

We accidently razed. Woops, and it was the Buddhist holy city!!! Sorry about that Gilgamesh!

However it did link our continental cities allowing us to use several attack forces to wipe him out.

We did pop a GE which we used to speed up

WE also are in desperate need for a super healer so we used the next GG, Yamamota, as our Medic III unit

And transferred him to front!

we did not take all cities, and especially razed the coastal ones

This allowed alot of the other AIs to settle these lands.

We then got the Overwhelm doctrine

Which we fullfilled and took +5 commerce per harbor as all our naval units are already combat I!

We dropped another wonder

Allowing us to swap between Police State and US depending on war conditions.

I should not that between our assaults and the SoZ wonder Gilgamesh is floundering at about 2000 war weariness!

We then started assaulting the major Summerian cities with plenty of air-support

Suffice to say we captured all the Summerian cities rather than boring you with so many screenshots.

However the last one

Asoka and Gilgamesh dead, this continent is ours with a large tech edge.

We played out a few more turns to straighten things out and saved.

To Be Continued........

 

[madscientist]

Stagnation! Part VII

So we adjusted civics

For this type of game, I certaily could use that Christo Redntor wonders!

Techs

I think I will tech off DR, MS, and MM just so I have absolute control of all techs!

The diplomacy board

Victory conditions

I will assume that bringing those Summerian cities up to full potential will NOT get us over the Domination limit!

And the Military Advisor shows us

Well, we are Hatty's worse enemy, but Hatty is Isabella's worse enemy. Issabella also has enough on her hands while the other two are not planning anything.

So my plans

1) Finish the Manhatten Project and build Nukes.

2) Assembly the extremely large Armada of death and start Taking out Zara and his cronies!

I think I would prefer to spend eternity with the two ladies rather than a bunch of ugly men!

 

[UWHabs]

You don't have near the land area needed for the dom victory. Worst case, pick one AI and gift them a section of continent.

You have enough to prevent anyone else from winning a UN victory. You can just abstain from voting for yourself, and you're fine.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Update coming! 580 turns left and the fun is only beginning!!

Regarding Global Warming in BTS, I always thought it was directly related to Nuclear activity. It occurs without dropping nukes because the AIs Nuclear Plants meltdown periodically.

Either way, I will test this out one way or another. Either keep all the AIs off of Nuclear Plants or Just nuke the entire world and see if I can actually still win the game with an empire of desert!

It's coded to be a result of 1) forest clearing, 2) unhealthy faces in cities even if the city is healthy and 3) nukes.

To put it mildly, I got wrecked by GW even though nobody built nuke plants (I didn't and they didn't have the tech for almost the entire time). Nukes were banned and never fired. Every single city in the world was healthy. All of mine had recycling centers/aqueducts/public transportation etc etc.

It doesn't matter one damned bit. If you have a lot of population, and factory/power combination at all (even if it's clean), and you cleared forests/jungle (or even if the AI did), you're getting GW.

That's why I voted you just go with the flow and nuke the entire world into desert.

Edit: You'll trip domination POP, but not land.

 

[UWHabs]

Well, in a sense, it makes sense to base it on total unhealthy. I mean, I think overcrowding of the world has contributed a fair bit to global warming... You can argue that they should tone down the effects of it (rising water levels "washing away" some coastal tiles would make sense, or even keeping squares in tact, but as you get more global warming, your cities get more unhappiness and unhealthiness).

 

[Mister Giggles]

"i think you mean "kiloton." The largest nuke on record was the 50 megaton Tsar Bomb. Nukes that size are too large and unwieldy to use, however."

Megaton. I was off on the megatonage, being that Tsar Bomba was a 100 megaton used at half yield (50, in other words), but the average nuke is still hovering in the megaton range. The nukes dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were in the range of 15 kilotons, and that was before the advent of hydrogen bombs which ramped up yields significantly.

Thank you for the correction, however. I was afraid I was off on how big the average nuke is.

"Fallout comes from matter getting sucked up into the fireball and getting irradiated. Unless it's a ground burst, fallout is irrelevant."

Unless it's done in a vacuum where there's no air (The matter), you're still going to have irradiated crap falling down from the sky. You are correct, there will be less of it, but what there is will be spread over a wider area. A ground burst will have more of it, but it won't have the same travel range.

"Fun fact: drop a nuke on London. 95% of the infrastructure remains intact (or easily repairable), and 80% of the population survives. It's a Get-Rich-Quick scheme/joke in The Business."

I would disagree with this, at least with modern nukes. A Hiroshima/Nagasaki sized bomb, I'd agree.

 

[madscientist]

Stagnation!: Part IX

WOW, Stagnation is right.

We started by moving our modest SoD towards Zara's homeland

Three vassals yet he has 1 lone island. Well that ended fast enough

We then sailed right next to Mao's lands and did the same to his 2 cities.

Two Ais down real fast.

In the meantime

So we started building a few ICBMs.

After ripping apart the BRitish Island we find Churchill had the audacity to keep one land-locked. Well we shall show him.

We sailed off to Destroy the Germans

While we awaited our ICBMs to finish

Then launched three against London dropping the population 1.

Soon I became simply bored with this, so I landed my tanks and

Go ahead ladies, you are welcome to settle that landmass to your heart's content!

We got the last Modern wonder

And the ladies started a catfight amongst themselves

And just because I could

We elected ourselves the chair and ignored all fiuture proposals except for

I have enough to keep the ladies off of us, yet without the fear of them building their own!

The GE from Fussion (forget the techpath, I teched big and that's enough)

Launched a 24 turn Golden Age. Somewhere I must have picked up the Masuleum.

We built infratructure and massive military!!! More and More!!!

At the end of the GA we savced with a mere 471 turns left!

Well, I saved here.

I likely will play it out to the end unless something more enbtertaining occurs or the boredom drives me to attack the ladies.

Enough for tomight

PS: Yes, global warming is a small issue not but in 400+ turns we may have a wasteland!.

 

[Shadowcrow]

Watch out, your dangerously close to popping over that land area limit.
Also, how do you plan to stop your cities from going over the cultural limit.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Watch out, your dangerously close to popping over that land area limit.
Also, how do you plan to stop your cities from going over the cultural limit.

He's not all that close to tripping dom. If he gets too close he can just gift cities...

As for culture, do recall that you need 150,000 culture on marathon. He's nowhere close and certainly won't win that by accident.

 

[Shadowcrow]

He's not all that close to tripping dom. If he gets too close he can just gift cities...

As for culture, do recall that you need 150,000 culture on marathon. He's nowhere close and certainly won't win that by accident.

Ah my bad, I'm too used to epic.

6% isn't a whole lot, I guess so long as you completely avoid culture popping and taking new cities it should be fine though.

 

[Joshua368]

Why are you referring to Suryavarman II amoung "the ladies"? D:

 

[Kevie]

sury does wear a headdress and a gown. shrugs* i'm sure someone finds him/her attractive....

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ah my bad, I'm too used to epic.

6% isn't a whole lot, I guess so long as you completely avoid culture popping and taking new cities it should be fine though.

Well, water doesn't count, so if you're not pushing AI culture, you're fine .

I was actually within 1% once, although I had to gift a city back as a result. I was then comfortably ~ 1.5% below the threshold, and since no amount of border pops on my part would have increased it, it was fine.

IMO, mad's in a similar situation.

 

[madscientist]

sury does wear a headdress and a gown. shrugs* i'm sure someone finds him/her attractive....

Actually I nor sure what Sury is and since he is the colony of Cathy originating from conquered Hatty lands I'll give him a pass this time arround