Role Play Challenge, The Next Generation Pre-Game thread: Comrad Lenin!

[madscientist]

Well the next leader shall be Vladmir Lennin, starter of the Russian Revolution of 1917 (Abouts!).

I want to see what suggestions for game setting on this one.

My goal is to save the game as a worldbuilder game and alter it to give Lennin Theocracy and thus prevent any religion spreading to the Soviet Union. Atheism folkd, in a way that put even Mao to shame!

I plan to NEVER keep a city with a religion (a little Khanish), nor keep one with a wonder that produces Prophet Points! Also all Holy cities must be burned to the ground before we accept Victory!

OK, what settings?

1) Best leader? I think one of the Russians, but is the obvious Stalin the best? Seams Peter may fit a bit better

2) Do I turn off domination or the hell with it?

3) I will play in Monarch difficulty but thinking of moving to epic speed here.

4) Map??????

5) Other rules?? well no founding religions is one. State Property is another.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Well, Lenin was a great strategist, but I don't know if he could be called philosophical. The man was charismatic, though. I remember that my grandfather, who came from Lithuania (annexed by the Russians, BTW), could not speak about Lenin without tears in his eyes, 75 years after the Russian Revolution. My grandfather was never a communist, it was just a Lenin thing.

And, I don't know, right after the revolution they had to fight off the Americans, British, French and others during the civil war.

So you could play as Churchill of the Russians. Not unrestricted leaders, just edit your own leader.

 

[malanek]

Hi, Im pretty new to these forums but have enjoyed reading your last couple of playthroughs in this series. I'll give this one a go.

I think for leader choice Industrious is the best fit but he doesn't really suit Stalin. I think Industrious/Charismatic would be best.

 

[jamescat]

Too bad you can't have a unit similar to the Inquisitor in Fall from Heaven - maybe kill off a certain amount of the city's pop in order to remove religion from your cities or something.

Also it would be interesting if you refuse to trade with zealots... especially after the last game of accepting all trades. I can't offer much input from a historical perspective as to which Russian leader would be the best, but if you're going to WB in Theo then taking other leaders traits like Ignorant Teacher said may be a good idea.

I assume the plan is to eliminate civs with religion... but what about late-game when leaders start adopting FR? Is this even worse in our Lenin's eyes as they now have the freedom to worship whatever gods they choose?

 

[civverguy]

I think he should be charismatic and expansive, but that would be George Washington.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

AFAIK NSR theocracy does NOT block religious autospread .

 

[madscientist]

Just tested it out and you are right about theocracy not blocking autoapread.

OK, how do we playa round this???

 

[Hrundi]

Adopt slavery as early as possible. Maximize whipping, definitely no rushbuying. Also getting the kremlin would be a nice priority.
Nationalism to symbolize all glory to the USSR. Possibly rely on a purely drafted army after Nationalism?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If you get unlucky its impossible to keep religion out of your cities (it can spread from civs you haven't even met yet). The best workaround I can see is something similar to the original Mao RPC...forced paganism, raze holy cities. You can always do "raze all cities with religion" of course but that might as well be "raze all cities not captured in the BCs, and many of those that are even then".

Could still be doable on monarch though.

 

[Laurencius]

"We must show the peasants that the organisation of industry on the basis of modern, advanced technology, on electrification which will provide a link between town and country, will put an end to the division between town and country, will make it possible to raise the level of culture in the countryside and to overcome, even in the most remote corners of land, backwardness, ignorance, poverty, disease, and barbarism."

Based on that famous Lenin quote, I think he should be Organized and Creative (Zara Yaqob). Other option would be Organized Industrious (Roosevelt) given the huge industrial strides which the Soviets achieved in the early 20th century. Or Organized Philosophical (Frederick).

State property, of course. I do not agree that slavery should be allowed, except during war, since Lenin's ideal was to free the peasants and workers from the oppressive tsarist conditions.

Lenin did confiscate the property of the Orthodox church, so I think he would rather use shrine income than not by razing the city.

I think it would be fun to require Lenin to found a religion and consider it "Atheism" and then require he maintain a theocratic "atheism". Since in my opinion it takes a lot of faith to be an atheist, as opposed to being an agnostic.

I don't think Lenin was expansive or imperialistic, though he definitely wanted to export the revolution to other countries. So I would say that the preferred victory condition should be diplomatic. Maybe give extra points for each empire that adopts state property.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I'd suggest aiming at Police State, Nationhood, State Property and Free Religion
Switch between Slavery (gulags full of slave workers) and Caste System (privilieged class of apparachiks) as desired
No cottages except in the capital and cities where you build the Forbidden Palace or Versailles (dachas for the apparachiks)
I'd suggest build no religious wonders, run no priests, build no missionaries, but exploit any religion that spreads to you. Lenin was pragmatic
Traits for Lenin. Not sure but Organised above all. Perhaps FDR?

 

[madscientist]

Hmmm, alot to conside rhere

Well, I don;t want to just repeat the Mao game but I definitely see more similarity to Mao than any other. Also I view Lenin are more of an emotional revolutionary rather than a long-term plotter like Mao and his plan.

SO here is what I am thinking

1) Religion:

I have not decided yet but founding Atherism is an idea. I can force founding meditation (Didn't you all tell me Buddhism technically did not believe in god???), require a Buddhist Missionary for every city (early on I can just worldbuild the religion into the city if need be, maybe), Worldbuild us Theocracy to prevent other religions from spreading, and DO NOT ADOPT A STATE RELIGION. It would require a Civilization starting with mysticism and handpick ones that do not. This means we build a Monestary (we can consider it something else Communist-compatible) but no other religions. Finally, as with Mao not Monotheism/Theology/Divine Right.

Alternatively, I can just ignore religions in my cities.

2) Rather than a Military Religion Purge as I originally intended, I may just aim towards building up a very large, production/farm heavy Soviet empire. A civilization built on the backs of the proud Soviet people, so no slavery/rush buying. No cottages, just farms and hammers here. Empire expansion is fine, no conquest though. I have enough military orientated games in my mind to focus on Russian Production. Also perhaps a game where watermills/workshops/windmills/lumbermills should eventually replace every farm and mine post Communism, never did this but it could be interesting.

3) No capitalism, and obviously State Property. To fit here also We will NOT run any merchant specialists or priests, but artists/spies/scientists/engineers are fine.

4) Civics need to be only those for Comrad Lenin, thus
Representation or Police State, no HR (A monarchy? bah) or Universal Sufferage
Buearacracy or NAtionhood. No vassalage (what, lords and all, NO) or Free Speech.
Caste or Emanciaption. No wasting valuable Russian people with slavery, and peasentry is OUT!.
Mercantilism early, then State Property
Theocracy (see above).

5) Victory? Well after Obama I will not limit myself here, but I look foreward to a strong late game production base so either a modern era Conquest or Space Race.

6) I am now undecided if I want to bother burning Holy Cities and Corp HQs. Now that I think of it I think I want Lennin going a different path and I will save the religion-phobe for another game.

NOW, leader and civilization.

I would definitely like to play as Russia, but at least an ORG leader. I am thinking Fred or FDR here, leaning towards FDR because he was essentially an American Socialist president and it fit's nicely with the production emphasis (faster forges). Lennin was Charismatic, but I just played up that angle with Obama.

Altering the start. It is an RPC and fun so I plan to worldbuild to start. I plan to add Mysticism as a free tech so we found Buddhism and I gues remove hunting (mining seams essential for the Soviet production machine). I also will give us THEOCRACY and perhaps worldbuold us an early Monestary in the capital.

Wheh! That's alot and probably too much. But I definitely like working the major production angle here even if it costs us the religion angle.

More thoughts???

 

[Hrundi]

I do think slavery is required to demonstrate the extensive labor camp system, as well as to sort of simulate the labor camp system as well as other aspects of the red terror.

As for leader, I do think Industrial should be avoided, as that was Stalin's thing. Maybe Hammurabi (Agg/Org), or Napoleon (Org/Cha). Another possibility would be Mehmed (Exp/Org), although I suppose it's harder to fit him to expansive.

 

[bestje]

i think org/ cha/ ind
none of the war traits (agg/pro) really fit Lenin

 

[madscientist]

ORG/EXP, I like. Maybe it did not fit directly to the real Lenin but it plays into my planned production based game with the extra health and fast graneries (to fit with farms more). IND would be a little limited as I do plan to avoid getting a great Prophet thus the early world wonders are out.

Although hsitory really means little to me on these games, I have read that Lenin was not really as big of a religion hater, but he focused more on hating Capitalism. SO suffice we just ignore religion and keep The default civics (Paganism???).

I also plan on banning Banks (it's an RPC afterall, we need a challenge), cottages, merchants, trades for gold (techs or resoruces). Markets and Grocers are OK (I am not suicidal!) as they produce health and happiness.

 

[Hrundi]

Ah here's an idea. How about somehow trying to force every nation on the globe into state property?
Or basically, we can't actively pursue a victory condition until we've spread communism across the globe. I imagine if there's war involved to do it, it'd help with various victories anyway and not be a total waste.

 

[madscientist]

Ah here's an idea. How about somehow trying to force every nation on the globe into state property?
Or basically, we can't actively pursue a victory condition until we've spread communism across the globe. I imagine if there's war involved to do it, it'd help with various victories anyway and not be a total waste.

I prefer to avoid forced civics as it's very hard to get done and can really affect the flow of the game. I did just this in the Mao game and it was a nail-biter. Suffice I will do my absolutel best to head towards universal World State Property. Also the UN will need to be dealt with to avoid Environmentalism, especially since I plan to go well into the modern era.

 

[JTMacc99]

Okay, I say you can ignore religions. You can't stop every single person from worshiping, but you most certainly can forbid any places of worship. This should work with any cities you capture, as temples and monasteries are destroyed (right?)

I much prefer Frederick as your appropriate leader. I would assume that innovation and advancements are not driven through capitalistic greed, but rather by the state nurturing and funding its greatest minds.

 

[socialhavoc]

I wouldn't mind seeing you change this up a little bit. In essence this is really close to swinging into a mao game.

How about you set the begining tech tree to industrial pick/edit leaders of the same time era and use an earth map. It would be nice to see what happens in a game that isn't just a axe rush or rifle/cannon beeline.

I'd go ahead and turn off space race since you'll have a truncated tech tree. I would say slavery is a must for this game but not in a way to help you.

If religion spreads into a city that was settled by russia, that city must whip ever x number of turns. It must whip a unit and the unit must disband. You aren't using slavery to get ahead but to symbolize persecuting the religions that spread. This seems like it would really encourage razing religion infested cities from your neighbors before it spread to you.

We should definately score this game in number of cities you can maintain without religion ever spreading to them.

 

[Hrundi]

I too like the idea about forbidding places of worship.