Round Globe

I think the best solution to permitting polar movement would be to leave the tile system, allow the jump to any n/s tile by ground at all movement cost/by air at half. This would require far less reworking of the mechanics and allow for more of the game being dedicated to strategy (read AI) than graphics.

Not yet really mentioned in this thread is the significant game play changes that would occur with a hex based map. A hex city would have 7 hexes (less) to start and 19 (more) after cultural expanison. Not a real biggie by itself but then with the overlapping added it is.

Plus I'm a keyboard mover, I don't like moving the units by mouse -- so I would prefer the tile system
 
Globe.
No tiles or hexs, use points.
3d and deformable.

No big deal really as far as hardware goes - by the time Civ4 comes out - most current office systems have enough graphical processing power to do this with ease...
 
At the start of the game you should be able to choose between round planet, x wrap, or x wrap and y wrap
 
Here is my take (as I posted earlier):

Leave it like it is in Civ3. You can't manage an entire globe from one view.
Have squares.
Have an option of X and Y wrap.
 
I think civ should definatly have a globe view.

WHen I buy civ4, I don't want just a tweaked civ3. I want it to have new challenges etc.

And a sphere, will maybe trickier than a cylinder, would still be easy compared to current FPS games graphically and compuationally.


I also think, there should definatly be the option of playing on an old style civ board. And also the option of playing on a flat world, like how the old civ's actually believed the world was like.
 
Draw a grid on a square piece of paper. Curl it around into a cone, with the point of the cone centered on one of the edges rather than a corner. Make two of them and cut the edges so they can be fit together. While not literally spherical, that would be topologically spherical.
 
It sounds like a lot of people hating on the idea of a 3-D globe for Civ4 are just afraid of change. You also probably haven't downloaded and played with this:

http://www.globalshareware.com/Home-Education/Teaching-Tools/3D-World-Map.htm

It's really cool. Posted a few pages back with the first large picture of the epcot-style globe sculpture. Gives a sense (but only a sense) of how easy to use a 3-D globe would be.

Clearly this is the holy grail of Civ gameplay and what we will sooner or later be playing on. After all it's a 3-D world we are simming, not a 2-D one. All you stodgy conservative gamers who are afraid of change can just keep playing CivIII, or maybe they will be nice enough to give you an option to play on a flat, square-tile based map. But the rest of will be in 3-D and thank god, because I've been waiting over a decade for this to be a reality in Civ.

If it's a hex based map, moving will still be simple. Just use these keys:
O K , P ; .
For pentagons, leave out the P. Subtle indicator letters can appear on the screen to show which key will put you where, and/or the orientation can adjust as you move to guide you.

Anyway, I am sick of you 3-D haters. We give you good reasons why it'll work, and all you give us is: "But I like it the way it is! Waaah!"

Call the Wah-mbulance.
 
well I'm sure the CIV4 team has mathematicians and experts on this issue...the question is: will CIV4 have spherical maps indeed??

I'd love to see it but does anyone know for sure this option will be implemented in CIV4?
 
An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction.

Here is an icosahedral projection of Earth and a blank sheet that will help the discussion. WARNING: LARGE PICTURES! You may want to download them and use something like ACDSee to reduce their size to fit on your screen.

This free view of Earth in 3D is much better than the link Capitan tried to shleff off on you. Not as fancy, but it's still beautiful.

Anyway, back to the ico-Earth discussion. As the pictures show (well, except 5 and 6, where I colorized the edges and it looks like crap), a whole globe can be split into 20 large triangular areas, each of which, at its point, forms a pentagon arrangement with 4 other triangles. These large triangles can be divided up into as many hexes as you like. In Pic #4, you can see that the base of each triangle is 8 hexes wide, meaning that each hex gives a diameter of about 1000km (600 miles), or about 10 degrees at the equator. Each hex can also be divided up however you like, such that each tiny hex might be like 10km across, giving each large hex a diameter of 100 hexes. With 640 of these hexes on this map, and 750 10km hexes each, this gives a large area.

Note: I am treating the pentagons as hexes for all intents and purposes in the above figures. Additionally, I wouldn't dream of inflicting 480,000 spaces on a gamer, but some one else might.

I know pics 5 and 6 are a bit ugly, but I have since made a much MUCH better version of this map; I just haven't posted it yet, nor have I posted a sub-divided hex, which I described above. (This may change in the near future.)

In the game, I would expect the computer to "cut out the ico-projection and fold it into a D20 shape and always display it that way". Naturally, when I have to look at an edge or corner, the computer will flatten that part out a bit so it doesn't look so distorted.

Alternately, if the world is divided into enough triangles, and we use the TRIANGLES as the spaces, well, there's ALWAYS only 3 directions to go then, even when occasionally we find 5 triangles grouped together instead of 6. Pic number 7 gives just the barest glimpse at what this might look like.

On the other hand, the team COULD go with a radial-projection coordinate system. This would be a longitude angle and a distance from the north pole. The computer will have to reemmber that as one gets closer to the pole, a mile covers more degrees of longitude than it does at the equator, so the range of 100 miles for my Harpoon missiles will go 100 miles no matter how many degrees of longitude it winds up being.

The gains to be made from using a globe are impressive. First, we can FINALLY make an accurate projection of the Earth! Second, we can play on Mars or Venus if we want, or even the Moon; we just import radar altimeter data from a space probe and then tell the game what sea level is. We might even get to watch it while we adjust the elevation, looking for just the right amount of land and sea. And thirdly, there will finally be no more overwhelming advantage to being placed in Asia, with it's ridiculously oversized distortion of its landmass. Heck, even the Pacific might be a challenge to cross!

And since you should all be using a mouse by now anyway......
 
I would prefer a globe, where tiles further north would take less MP, or fractional MP, and the top line would be completely free movement.

However, a rectangular map is preffered, for sake of beauty. Any other shape would seem odd... regardless of the accuracy of it's projection.
 
The computer could play a round map with your play appearing on a flat map. What we are talking about is the ability for the pieces in the game to be able to move on a spherical board rather than a flat board. conducted in the grid pattern now this could possible be by offsetting the grid rows on the top and then the bottom from each other. Allowing the piece to have the potential to move onto 6 adjacent spaces instead of 8.
 
Of course, if it's in a true 3d world, it may be a true 3d map. That would be neat.
 
A 3d map? Everyone knows that the world is REALLY flat!

But still it would be pretty cool though.
 
TheDS said:
And since you should all be using a mouse by now anyway......

The original Civ won awards for its accessibility for people with disabilities. I hope the designers don't screw up this by requiring a mouse.

Oh, and some people use laptop computers.
 
With triangles or hex tiles I already see Civ in a round globe. But any one are capable of explain how we can get a round globe with square tiles?
If same expert say me I apreciate.
 
mhIdA said:
With triangles or hex tiles I already see Civ in a round globe. But any one are capable of explain how we can get a round globe with square tiles?
If same expert say me I apreciate.

All that matters is what is displayed. A global map does not necessarily even have to appear rounded, just the edges fade quickly into a mist. It can still look quite flat, alot like you only see part of the map when playing civ III.
 
The only purpose of make a round globe would be to actually include the north & south poles. It is not worth it, considering how much work has to be put in.
(This might have been mentioned before^)
 
Go and play a cheap, old game called Populous: The Beggining. It is an RTS game on a round world map. It uses squares. (want a screenie?)
 
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