Norvin_Green
Emperor
I'll post my thoughts and plans later for critique and suggestions.
SAM-01 Smoke and Mirrors
- Thread starter Norvin_Green
- Start date
Norvin_Green
Emperor
Ok, took a look at the save and re-read the last few pages of the thread. Going to tech as Glare suggested Edu (GS in 3 turns) > Lib > take MT with freebie. With Edu arriving in 3 any reason that I can't switch to drama (completes in 2 turns) and then back to Edu (that way we bulb as much of it as possible?)
Also, trade DR to Nap (Feud + gold) and HC (Eng + gold) though I might stall a few turns to ensure wonders get completed.
How about we get Angkor Wat in Stalingrad? It will take 16 turns now plus it will be aided by the GA from the Taj. It nets us the priest slots to try and churn out one for the Islamic shrine (didn't do the math to see if its possible or not) and I don't think that we should build wealth during the GA.
Might be able to play in a few hours so let me know if there are objections?
What about the first Confucian Academy in Moscow? It will net us 4
plus 2 
? With some more health we could work all tiles 
Also, trade DR to Nap (Feud + gold) and HC (Eng + gold) though I might stall a few turns to ensure wonders get completed.
How about we get Angkor Wat in Stalingrad? It will take 16 turns now plus it will be aided by the GA from the Taj. It nets us the priest slots to try and churn out one for the Islamic shrine (didn't do the math to see if its possible or not) and I don't think that we should build wealth during the GA.
Might be able to play in a few hours so let me know if there are objections?
What about the first Confucian Academy in Moscow? It will net us 4
plus 2 ? With some more health we could work all tiles 
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Ah, I hadn't looked at this save yet, apparently. Glad that the rest of the continent has been explored. I see some land beyond Napoleon and Capac, but it's not like we're going to reach any of that.
Napoleon really got ahead on some techs. And he's building up troops in Bactrian, but he doesn't have too much on his hands, so I don't know what his game is.
I don't see any reason that we can't grab Drama (might be able to trade/sell to Capac if Napoleon hasn't already), though does it really add a discount to Education? Will the scientist bulb all of Education, anyway?
Oh, and Capac will research Feudalism in 3 turns. If we let him do that, will the AIs consider the tech cheaper for trade (hence benefiting us)?
Stalingrad IS building the Taj, and according to what I see, it would take 18 turns anyway. Let's keep our Capital on the Taj. We could chop out the Taj and then build the AW there. I agree with the logic of adding the priest slots (and the AW adds Priest GP points itself). If you chop, I guess chop the riverside plains forests so you can at least farm them and keep growth up.
Speaking of, Magnitogorsk can build a worker in 3 turns, and Karachev can a build on in 2. Think you can play with our income and the slider for 3 turns? I think 2 extra workers would be very helpful right now. We'll lose a lot of cash while building them because the two towns are on Wealth at the moment, but I think it'll be worth it in the long-run.
Dunno if Moscow needs the extra happy or hammers . . . . I'm gonna run a quick check on our cities and get back to you.
St. Petersburg should be working one of the fur tiles instead of the plains farm. We want to work all the furs for the income (maybe you can set the governor to favor wealth). I don't know how much good the forge is going to do, but we might as well build it before a Confucian Monastery and Temple (those +4 hammers will help the poor town).
Novosibirsk should have been building a Monastery before a Temple because the former is cheaper. It doesn't make much difference at this point, but always note that unless the city needs more happiness, Monasteries are better buys (especially if they are of the AP religion).
Karachev, after a worker, an aqueduct will help it continue to grow.
Magnitogorsk: Should be working the mined hills instead of the farms! Even building wealth, we'd get more money because hammers are converted directly into cash! We could put the first Academy hear to add a couple extra hammers for 100% military bonus, perhaps.
Archangel: Same note as the other ice town. SHOULD BUILD A MONASTERY FIRST, but it's so far along now that it doesn't matter. We can whip the temple here, so might as well.
Mezhdurechensk: Might be an Academy option. Could use some extra hammers, but the EXTRA HAPPY will help keep growing it as a GP farm. It has a relatively low happy cap compared to our other towns. After that, I'd build anything that can provide Specialist Slots, like the Christian Temple or a Market. Eventually we may want to try for other specialists.
Elektrogorsk: It's making a lot of food here. After it works the last two water tiles, lets do some specialists, starting with a spy. Remember, it'll be our spy town~!
Svetlograd: Just keep working on Versailles, I guess. We have the sheep back, so work it instead of one of the grassland farms. Build workshops everywhere else, I guess. We can cut a turn off of the Wonder by working the sheep, working the workshop and one of the forests.
Those are my suggestions with a quick fly-by. Just make sure to run through all the towns, tweaking tiles as needed, and etc.
Other than the things I pointed out, we look pretty good.
Napoleon really got ahead on some techs. And he's building up troops in Bactrian, but he doesn't have too much on his hands, so I don't know what his game is.
I don't see any reason that we can't grab Drama (might be able to trade/sell to Capac if Napoleon hasn't already), though does it really add a discount to Education? Will the scientist bulb all of Education, anyway?
Oh, and Capac will research Feudalism in 3 turns. If we let him do that, will the AIs consider the tech cheaper for trade (hence benefiting us)?
Stalingrad IS building the Taj, and according to what I see, it would take 18 turns anyway. Let's keep our Capital on the Taj. We could chop out the Taj and then build the AW there. I agree with the logic of adding the priest slots (and the AW adds Priest GP points itself). If you chop, I guess chop the riverside plains forests so you can at least farm them and keep growth up.
Speaking of, Magnitogorsk can build a worker in 3 turns, and Karachev can a build on in 2. Think you can play with our income and the slider for 3 turns? I think 2 extra workers would be very helpful right now. We'll lose a lot of cash while building them because the two towns are on Wealth at the moment, but I think it'll be worth it in the long-run.
Dunno if Moscow needs the extra happy or hammers . . . . I'm gonna run a quick check on our cities and get back to you.
St. Petersburg should be working one of the fur tiles instead of the plains farm. We want to work all the furs for the income (maybe you can set the governor to favor wealth). I don't know how much good the forge is going to do, but we might as well build it before a Confucian Monastery and Temple (those +4 hammers will help the poor town).
Novosibirsk should have been building a Monastery before a Temple because the former is cheaper. It doesn't make much difference at this point, but always note that unless the city needs more happiness, Monasteries are better buys (especially if they are of the AP religion).
Karachev, after a worker, an aqueduct will help it continue to grow.
Magnitogorsk: Should be working the mined hills instead of the farms! Even building wealth, we'd get more money because hammers are converted directly into cash! We could put the first Academy hear to add a couple extra hammers for 100% military bonus, perhaps.
Archangel: Same note as the other ice town. SHOULD BUILD A MONASTERY FIRST, but it's so far along now that it doesn't matter. We can whip the temple here, so might as well.
Mezhdurechensk: Might be an Academy option. Could use some extra hammers, but the EXTRA HAPPY will help keep growing it as a GP farm. It has a relatively low happy cap compared to our other towns. After that, I'd build anything that can provide Specialist Slots, like the Christian Temple or a Market. Eventually we may want to try for other specialists.
Elektrogorsk: It's making a lot of food here. After it works the last two water tiles, lets do some specialists, starting with a spy. Remember, it'll be our spy town~!
Svetlograd: Just keep working on Versailles, I guess. We have the sheep back, so work it instead of one of the grassland farms. Build workshops everywhere else, I guess. We can cut a turn off of the Wonder by working the sheep, working the workshop and one of the forests.
Those are my suggestions with a quick fly-by. Just make sure to run through all the towns, tweaking tiles as needed, and etc.
Other than the things I pointed out, we look pretty good.
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Plan sounds good, I agree with Whosit that we are generally looking good.
Building AW during the Taj GA is fine. I guess we should grow the cities as much as possible before the Taj is complete so that we are working max hammer/commerce tiles during the GA. I think that's why Magnitogorsk is working farms over mines, it can grow a lot more if I remember correctly (don't have the save open at the moment).
The GS won't bulb all of Education, I am pretty sure. It takes two. So I wouldn't be wary of wasting beakers, but teching Drama just to make sure is okay with me.
About the temple builds, yeah monasteries are cheaper. My thinking was that for the tundra cities, since they are low on hammers and every building takes ages to build, I'd rather build something that won't obsolete later on. Granted, I imagine we'll be delaying Scientific Method as much as possible because of our awesome monasteries... so maybe it was the wrong choice. And since we are in Slavery building both is not really a big problem anyway.
Building AW during the Taj GA is fine. I guess we should grow the cities as much as possible before the Taj is complete so that we are working max hammer/commerce tiles during the GA. I think that's why Magnitogorsk is working farms over mines, it can grow a lot more if I remember correctly (don't have the save open at the moment).
The GS won't bulb all of Education, I am pretty sure. It takes two. So I wouldn't be wary of wasting beakers, but teching Drama just to make sure is okay with me.
About the temple builds, yeah monasteries are cheaper. My thinking was that for the tundra cities, since they are low on hammers and every building takes ages to build, I'd rather build something that won't obsolete later on. Granted, I imagine we'll be delaying Scientific Method as much as possible because of our awesome monasteries... so maybe it was the wrong choice. And since we are in Slavery building both is not really a big problem anyway.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
I'll have to load up some save games from later eras of play. I always thought that when a building becomes obsolete, you just can't build it anymore, but any existing buildings still retain their effects. But I never really paid attention so I have no idea. 
Norvin_Green
Emperor
Things changed from our original plan so I stopped after 10 turns to get some feedback. I'll post what I had for my report (without pics for now) and see what everyone thinks.
Report:
Turn 0 (1330 a.d.)
Whip a temple here and there. Adjust some tiles for more commerce. Swap Drama for Education. (After-the-fact
)
Turn 1 (1335 a.d.)
Two monasteries are ordered.
Turn 2 (1340 a.d.)
HC enters a Golden Age. Enjoy it pal because before long we are going to put you back to the Dark Ages.
Make the following trades:
Nappy 60 gold + Feudalism
HC World Map + Engineering
Lost cash by waiting a few turns as HC went from 360 the turn prior to zero.
Turn 3 (1345 a.d.)
Drama and our GS in. Use the bulb and tada!! oh, umm, , we still have 4 turns left of Education. Ok, heres my Revised Theory. At least during the GA we can build theatres quickly and knock the Globe out in Mezh and build uni's where needed.
Turn 4 (1350 a.d.)
Not much.
Turn 5 (1355 a.d.)
More of nothing. Note that we can see both Nappy AND HCs research and they are both researching guilds. Thanks, AI!
Turn 6 (1360 a.d.)
I notice that we have all of 2 spies so Elek goes on spy duty after completing its harbor. Start Mezh on a harbor as well to increase its health as Im assuming we will build the Globe here (no unhappiness)
Turn 7 (1365 a.d.)
Next stop Liberalism (10 turns @ 60%). Take Karachev off of wealth and start a uni. Slot a uni in Mezh above harbor.
And on a disturbing note Nappy is in WHEOOHRN.
I pay him a visit and we get 40 gold PLUS 10 turns of peace. Sounds like a good deal, huh? So I try the same thing in the East. Bingo another 40 gold. Thanks, fellas.
Turn 8 (1370 a.d.)
Moscow finishes the Spiral Minaret and it allows us to bump science up 10% and cut a turn off Liberalism.
Turn 9 (1375 a.d.)
Svetlograd completes Versailles
(watched the movie as I have NEVER built it before) and look to build something.
How about wealth? Between the reduced maintenance costs and the hammer to gold conversion ratio the science slider reaches 80% and still making gold. Another AP vote comes up:
Turn 10 (1380 a.d.)
Ok, let the flogging begin. We lost Liberalism to one of the unknowns. Yes we still had 5 turns to go but if I hadnt detoured through Drama it would have been 2 and more than likely would have upped the slider a little earlier. My apologies.
And we rack up another loss!
and a small victory! Yea us! (or should I say US-SR)
Turn 11 (1385 a.d.)
Russias Golden Age has arrived. Elected to finish Liberalism (trade bait) as it dropped to 3 turns. Started a few unis and an Academy in Magnitogorsk.
After a brief interuption and some time to think I decided to wait and continue my set after getting some input.
Should we continue for Lib? Any civic changes now and what do we want to be in when the GA ends? Build suggestions? I'm going to call it a night so I'll have more questions in the a.m.
Save to look at:
p.s. I didn't MM cities yet so its possible that there are a lot of tiles that can be adjusted.
Report:
Turn 0 (1330 a.d.)
Whip a temple here and there. Adjust some tiles for more commerce. Swap Drama for Education. (After-the-fact
)Turn 1 (1335 a.d.)
Two monasteries are ordered.
Turn 2 (1340 a.d.)
HC enters a Golden Age. Enjoy it pal because before long we are going to put you back to the Dark Ages.
Spoiler :
Make the following trades:
Nappy 60 gold + Feudalism
HC World Map + Engineering
Lost cash by waiting a few turns as HC went from 360 the turn prior to zero.
Turn 3 (1345 a.d.)
Drama and our GS in. Use the bulb and tada!! oh, umm, , we still have 4 turns left of Education. Ok, heres my Revised Theory. At least during the GA we can build theatres quickly and knock the Globe out in Mezh and build uni's where needed.
Turn 4 (1350 a.d.)
Not much.
Turn 5 (1355 a.d.)
More of nothing. Note that we can see both Nappy AND HCs research and they are both researching guilds. Thanks, AI!
Turn 6 (1360 a.d.)
I notice that we have all of 2 spies so Elek goes on spy duty after completing its harbor. Start Mezh on a harbor as well to increase its health as Im assuming we will build the Globe here (no unhappiness)
Turn 7 (1365 a.d.)
Next stop Liberalism (10 turns @ 60%). Take Karachev off of wealth and start a uni. Slot a uni in Mezh above harbor.
And on a disturbing note Nappy is in WHEOOHRN.
I pay him a visit and we get 40 gold PLUS 10 turns of peace. Sounds like a good deal, huh? So I try the same thing in the East. Bingo another 40 gold. Thanks, fellas.
Turn 8 (1370 a.d.)
Moscow finishes the Spiral Minaret and it allows us to bump science up 10% and cut a turn off Liberalism.
Spoiler :
Turn 9 (1375 a.d.)
Svetlograd completes Versailles
Spoiler :
(watched the movie as I have NEVER built it before) and look to build something.
How about wealth? Between the reduced maintenance costs and the hammer to gold conversion ratio the science slider reaches 80% and still making gold. Another AP vote comes up:
Spoiler :
Turn 10 (1380 a.d.)
Ok, let the flogging begin. We lost Liberalism to one of the unknowns. Yes we still had 5 turns to go but if I hadnt detoured through Drama it would have been 2 and more than likely would have upped the slider a little earlier. My apologies.
And we rack up another loss!
Spoiler :
and a small victory! Yea us! (or should I say US-SR)
Spoiler :
Turn 11 (1385 a.d.)
Russias Golden Age has arrived. Elected to finish Liberalism (trade bait) as it dropped to 3 turns. Started a few unis and an Academy in Magnitogorsk.
Spoiler :
After a brief interuption and some time to think I decided to wait and continue my set after getting some input.
Should we continue for Lib? Any civic changes now and what do we want to be in when the GA ends? Build suggestions? I'm going to call it a night so I'll have more questions in the a.m.
Save to look at:
p.s. I didn't MM cities yet so its possible that there are a lot of tiles that can be adjusted.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Hrm, am not able to look at the save, so I'll make an uneducated guess. Bummer we didn't get to Liberalism first, but what could ya' do? I think we all thought we had a sure shot since Nappy and Capac were our only references for how well the AI was doing. I think you're right and that we might as well finish it for trade, after that, we just will have to manually research up to Cossacks.
I'd start building units in Magnitogorsk, maybe other places you can spare it. We bought ourselves some time (literally), but Napoleon is going to come for us sooner rather than later. He's obviously not going to attack Capac. Last I checked, he had a lot of horses, but whatever you build, make sure they can counter his troops. And see that we have enough catapults to repel a stack. Move some troops to Karachev in case the main thrust of the invasion is there.
As far as Civics . . . Maybe switch to Theocracy? Or Vassalage. One of the two. I can't remember what we're running. Though if we're in Bureaucracy, switching out might do too much harm. Oh, is this a good time to switch out of Slavery? We could go to Caste System. I know that we still have a few low-production, whippable towns, but it seems like most of our core is long past whipping.
Eh, just a few ideas. I'll look at the save tomorrow if I can do it before you finish your set.
I'd start building units in Magnitogorsk, maybe other places you can spare it. We bought ourselves some time (literally), but Napoleon is going to come for us sooner rather than later. He's obviously not going to attack Capac. Last I checked, he had a lot of horses, but whatever you build, make sure they can counter his troops. And see that we have enough catapults to repel a stack. Move some troops to Karachev in case the main thrust of the invasion is there.
As far as Civics . . . Maybe switch to Theocracy? Or Vassalage. One of the two. I can't remember what we're running. Though if we're in Bureaucracy, switching out might do too much harm. Oh, is this a good time to switch out of Slavery? We could go to Caste System. I know that we still have a few low-production, whippable towns, but it seems like most of our core is long past whipping.
Eh, just a few ideas. I'll look at the save tomorrow if I can do it before you finish your set.
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Bummer, but that's what we get for risking waiting for a more expensive tech in the 1300s... I think the plan doesn't change, it'll just take a little longer. Finish Lib, then go MT > Gunpowder > PP (part-bulb?) > RP > Rifling while trading for Guilds and Banking.
Nappy can't touch us with that sad little stack of his. Build a castle in Magnitogorsk and we'll have all the time in the world to build more troops, though our current garrison might hold him off on their own just fine. Defensive war and take peace when you can.
Civics... I'm not sure. With Theocracy and Vassalage we'll be making 9xp cuirassers, just one win away from level 4. That's not bad, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I guess I wouldn't change anything. With Edu and Guilds/Banking coming up our commerce cities have a lot of infra to build so Organized Religion is useful. Slavery is starting to lose its worth to us since a lot of cities are +10 size, but maybe we'll want it for emergency during the war.
By the way, if we get an Artist from Mezh keep him for a 100% gold GA to get money for upgrades... it's 7% chance so it can seriously happen. :\
edit: Actually, how about switching to Caste/Pacifism immediately, running as many scientists in Mezh as you can, then switching to Slavery/Oraganized on the last turn of the GA? We can generate one in 5 turns that way, and be almost halfway to another by the time we switch back. We could save the GS to bulb Printing Press or else make an Academy, though bulbing seems better since we need to make up for lost time having lost Liberalism.
Also we can trade sheep to Huayna for 6gpt.
Nappy can't touch us with that sad little stack of his. Build a castle in Magnitogorsk and we'll have all the time in the world to build more troops, though our current garrison might hold him off on their own just fine. Defensive war and take peace when you can.
Civics... I'm not sure. With Theocracy and Vassalage we'll be making 9xp cuirassers, just one win away from level 4. That's not bad, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I guess I wouldn't change anything. With Edu and Guilds/Banking coming up our commerce cities have a lot of infra to build so Organized Religion is useful. Slavery is starting to lose its worth to us since a lot of cities are +10 size, but maybe we'll want it for emergency during the war.
By the way, if we get an Artist from Mezh keep him for a 100% gold GA to get money for upgrades... it's 7% chance so it can seriously happen. :\
edit: Actually, how about switching to Caste/Pacifism immediately, running as many scientists in Mezh as you can, then switching to Slavery/Oraganized on the last turn of the GA? We can generate one in 5 turns that way, and be almost halfway to another by the time we switch back. We could save the GS to bulb Printing Press or else make an Academy, though bulbing seems better since we need to make up for lost time having lost Liberalism.
Also we can trade sheep to Huayna for 6gpt.
Norvin_Green
Emperor
Turn 12 (1390 a.d.)
Quiet.
Turn 13 (1395 a.d.)
More of the same.
Turn 14 (1400 a.d.)
Lib arrives. Start MT. Hmmpphh!
We are starting to catch some spies in our territory.
Turn 15 (1405 a.d.)
ZZZZZ!
Oh wait we are:
Turn 16 (1410 a.d.)
More of nothing,
Turn 17 (1415 a.d.)
Our 10 turns of peace ends next turn. I have a feeling it is going to heat up.
Turn 18 (1420 a.d.)
Here come the French!
Turn 19 (1425 a.d.)
Or maybe not?!?
Turn 20 (1430 a.d.)
Not sure what Nap is up to he shows his troops and then backs off.
Roster:
Xanthus (up)
Whosit (on deck)
Dave Hartwyck
Glare Seethe
radiofreestl
Norvin Green (just played)
Save attached:
Quiet.
Turn 13 (1395 a.d.)
More of the same.
Turn 14 (1400 a.d.)
Lib arrives. Start MT. Hmmpphh!
Spoiler :
We are starting to catch some spies in our territory.
Turn 15 (1405 a.d.)
ZZZZZ!
Oh wait we are:
Spoiler :
Turn 16 (1410 a.d.)
More of nothing,
Turn 17 (1415 a.d.)
Our 10 turns of peace ends next turn. I have a feeling it is going to heat up.
Turn 18 (1420 a.d.)
Here come the French!
Spoiler :
Turn 19 (1425 a.d.)
Or maybe not?!?
Turn 20 (1430 a.d.)
Not sure what Nap is up to he shows his troops and then backs off.
Roster:
Xanthus (up)
Whosit (on deck)
Dave Hartwyck
Glare Seethe
radiofreestl
Norvin Green (just played)
Save attached:
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Tense.
Can't find Nappy's stack anywhere, maybe it's in Grenoble? We should spam longbows and pikemen. Maybe I am overconfident but I really doubt he can actually do us any serious damage, unless he attacks Archangel or Karachev, where we're underdefended. Maybe we should send a horse archer to follow his stack around, though we'll have to find it first. In any case, when he declares remember to promote our garrison before he attacks.
He's also going for Gunpowder, but musketeers are not going to do him much good against our cossacks. Hopefully he doesn't beeline Rifling as well, maybe a detour to Economics would do him good. It seems clear that he's met at least some of the other AIs since he's catching up in tech a little bit.
Tech wise, MT > finish PP > Gunpowder. Let's give Huayna Paper/Philo for Guilds, gold and map, and we can give Nappy Paper for Optics, too. Might as well take his techs before we kill him.
Huayna has a massive stack stationed in Juli so we won't be able to flip it, but on the plus side we can obliterate his army on the first turn of war.
If Whosit can take it now I think he should, Xanthus seems to be MIA.
Can't find Nappy's stack anywhere, maybe it's in Grenoble? We should spam longbows and pikemen. Maybe I am overconfident but I really doubt he can actually do us any serious damage, unless he attacks Archangel or Karachev, where we're underdefended. Maybe we should send a horse archer to follow his stack around, though we'll have to find it first. In any case, when he declares remember to promote our garrison before he attacks.
He's also going for Gunpowder, but musketeers are not going to do him much good against our cossacks. Hopefully he doesn't beeline Rifling as well, maybe a detour to Economics would do him good. It seems clear that he's met at least some of the other AIs since he's catching up in tech a little bit.
Tech wise, MT > finish PP > Gunpowder. Let's give Huayna Paper/Philo for Guilds, gold and map, and we can give Nappy Paper for Optics, too. Might as well take his techs before we kill him.
Huayna has a massive stack stationed in Juli so we won't be able to flip it, but on the plus side we can obliterate his army on the first turn of war.
If Whosit can take it now I think he should, Xanthus seems to be MIA.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Yeah, I can take it. I can probably have my set posted by this afternoon. I'll do my best not to channel all the suck I was doing in the other SGs.
Because I am slightly cautious (read: Paranoid), I think I'll divert a few troops to help Garrison Karachev. If Napoleon does attack Archangel, it shouldn't take as long to reinforce there. Losing Karachev for any amount of time is not a winning proposition.
Oh, regarding the size of our empire? Of course Russia is the largest! And we are going to get larger!
Also, if we don't hear from Xanthus in the next day or two, we should probably strike him from the roster. If he does pop up, we can give him a set, I suppose.
Because I am slightly cautious (read: Paranoid), I think I'll divert a few troops to help Garrison Karachev. If Napoleon does attack Archangel, it shouldn't take as long to reinforce there. Losing Karachev for any amount of time is not a winning proposition.
Oh, regarding the size of our empire? Of course Russia is the largest! And we are going to get larger!
Also, if we don't hear from Xanthus in the next day or two, we should probably strike him from the roster. If he does pop up, we can give him a set, I suppose.
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Sounds good, Whosit. Norvin already has some troops on the way to Karachev (plus a castle almost done) so it seems he was thinking the same thing. I agree losing Karachev is not an option... theoretically he could aim for Moscow too but it's deeper in our empire and we'll have plenty of time to send some troops over if that happens. I still think he'll go for Magnitogorsk, in any case, but we should definitely not cheap out on building more troops. Better safe than sorry.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
I should have posted this before (I took a break from the set early on 'cuz I had something to do), but I am strongly considering switching to Caste System. I'm going to closely examine our cities to see how much we'll still benefit from slavery. If we hire two more scientists in Mezh, we'll cut about 8 turns off the time to the next Great. Maybe we can hire some kind of specialist in Elektrogorsk (I did put a spy to work to start building up points). Not really anywhere that can use a specialist, unfortunately, so I'll have to see if the whip is still more useful. It'll probably be a little bit 'till I make the change, if I do, so if anyone strongly objects . . . .
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Caste is fine if you don't think you'll need Slavery for emergency whipping against Napoleon... I don't know how the set's been going so far, of course. Once most of the cities are pop 10+ Slavery is not as useful / efficient anymore.
Once most of the cities are pop 10+ Slavery is not as useful / efficient anymore.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Smoke and Mirrors: Ready, Go!
Pre-turn: Turn 306, 1430 AD
Ok, so Napoleon is in WHEOOH mode, so he will surely attack soon. We have one turn of Golden Age Left.
One thing that I see needs to be done is to build a road connecting Magnitogorsk to the north. Since we have Engineering now, that southern riverbend isn't so much an obstacle and we want to be able to quickly move troops back and forth. I'll send over a worker as soon as one is free and provide it with escort.
I start a crossbowman on the path to Karachev.
I sadly note that we must wait a turn before we can change civics, by which time the Golden Age will be over. I still kind of think that we don't need slavery as much now.
Time to check the cities. (On a random note, I remembered to open a save from an older game; obsolete buildings do lose their functions, but retain their cultural value. That must be what confused me.)
Anyway, first change I make is in Elektrogorsk by hiring a spy. It's still earning +4 food, so I think it's fair. Maybe can hire an engineer, too, make this a grab-bag GP farm for the time being.
Not sure about the improvements around Svetlograd, but I'll come back to it later. May want to eventually replace some of the farms with workshops when it reaches max workable growth. By my calculations, we can replace two farms with workshops (assuming we do not go into State Property).
St. Petersburg is working on a market, but it has no library. Market is almost done, so I'll let it finish, but we're at 80% science so a library would probably do more good. I might want to put cottages on the northeastern grasslands since we're making +2 food anyway. A little extra gold can't hurt.
Hmm. Werzdaartist might run into food problems eventually. Finishing courthouse, maybe a lighthouse next and then a theatre and temple to fight Capac's culture. Might be a place for the Moai Statues, unless we settle a town with more water tiles.
Ok, things look decent as far as I can tell. We have a spy in Magnitogorsk, so I might as well send him into French territory to try and locate that stack. It's not in Grenoble, pretty weak garrison there.
Ok, I think we're done for this turn.
Can't beg any more gold off of Napoleon. Sad. Anyway, I make the trades suggested earlier. Hrm, except Napoleon won't trade off Optics for just Paper. He wants a bunch of cash, too. Erm . . . . I'll just make the trade with Capac, then. Guess we can take Optics off of Napoleon's cold, dead hands.
Turn 307, 1435 BC
Karachev: Castle < Aqueduct (5 turns). It'll grow in five turns and is already at the health limit.
Magnitogorsk: Longbowman < Knight! (2 Turns)
Our Golden Age ends and Napoleon gets a Great Spy. Hrm.
I'm still itching to change to Caste System. We can run at least two more scientists in Mezh, which would cut many turns off of our Great Scientist Generation. Maybe in a couple turns, though I guess this would be a rather unilateral move on my part. I'll check all of our towns, to see if we can afford to lose access to the whip.
We can use some more roads to provide shortcuts, so I'll start doing that with some of our workers.
Found Napoleon's stack, hiding between a mountain between Bactrian and Rheims. I'll shadow it.
End turn.
Turn 308, 1440 AD
Both clowns have banking available, but it's not required for Cossacks, so I won't trade for it. Move units and do worker stuff.
I also decide that it's long past time to settle our remaining two cities. I will get that done this set.
I also shift our EPs to Capac. We should be able to see his research in about 4-5 turns. Hopefully we can trade him education for stuff.
I set Svetlograd to a 4-turn Settler. We're losing money, but Military Tradition finishes next turn, and I'll make some adjustments . . . .
Turn 309, 1445 AD
Capac comes asking for Civil Service. I say no. We have so many pluses that he'll stay friendly for a long, long time.
Military Tradition is in. West Point is (not) enabled. Is there any reason that it should not go in Magnitogorsk eventually? Maybe after we take Napoleon's stone? I just realized that we need a high-level unit. Awww . . . .
Printing Press in 2 turns.
Moscow: Aqueduct < Islamic Monastery (3 turns) for science boost, I guess.
Magnitogorsk: Knight < Pikeman (2 turns) I realized that we need more.
St. Petersburg: Market < Library (34 turns)
I shove research up to 90%, getting Printing Press next turn for 69 gold (we were losing 36 gold at 80%, so this actually saves us money!). I'll hold off on any civic changes until next turn, at least.
Magnitogorsk's road is connected. Yay for easier transport!
I send our knight in to keep an eye on the stack so that we can pull our spy out. I just realized that we were probably keeping him in town to stop enemy sabatoge. Oops.
Hmm, the cost to see Capac's research went up. He must have put Espionage Points on us.
After we get Rifling, let's run to Constitution and Democracy so that we can get Jails and Security Bureaus. Espionage Points for everyone!
I go ahead and whip Novgorod for 2 to get a courthouse. +2 EP and slight decrease to maintenance for the win and whatnot!
Turn 310, 1450 AD
Printing Press is in. Set to Banking 'cuz I realized I should have traded for it. Doy. Will get on that.
Stalingrad: Knight < Pikeman (3 turns). Because I realized that we don't want to invest too heavily in knights.
Werzdaartist: Courthouse < Theatre (5 turns). Culture wars!
Novgorod: Courthouse < Confucian Monastery (90 turns). Meh.
Forest grows near Stalingrad. Huzzah.
What to trade . . . . We can give Napoleon Nationalism for both Banking and Optics. And some cash, which would be nice. We'd have to give Capac Civil Service and Drama for just banking and less cash. I trade with Napoleon because we already have the Taj, and if he really wants to draft, let him, I say. More troops for us to kill.
I'd really like to nab Gunpowder off of him, but that's 2 turns away and we need banking to continue our tech path. OK, I pull the Trigger.
Replaceable Parts is on the way. Before I end the turn, I'm going to decide if it's worth selling Drama to Capac for just 70 gold . . . .
Even though our EPs went up by 4, Capac is really hitting us, too. Dunno if we'll be able to see his tech any time soon. But we're still in the clear for Napoleon, so no reason not to keep trying, I say.
As for the money, I realize that, deep down, Capac really just wants us to have it. So I let him know. He agrees, and gives us 70 gold coins because we're the bestest of friends. "Don't spend it all in one place," he admonishes.
I reduce spending to 80% again, losing 27 gold but we have a decent cushion now. I'll probably put Svetlograd back on wealth after the first settler is done.
Karachev will build a Caravel or two next, I expect. Maybe Mezh can build one, as well. Time to meet the other guys for ourselves!
I whip the library for 2 in St. Petersburg. I think that'll be the last whip. Right now, the only towns that really need teh whip are St. Petersburg and Novgorod. Most other towns can slow build at a decent pace. I personally think that we will be better served by a higher rate of great people, so I switch to Caste System. Now the Russian people can know their place!
I do apologize that I did this basically without warning. Hopefully I will be forgiven.
Turn 311, 1455 AD
Revolution completes. Capac has more money now. 120. I'll wait a couple turns to see if it gets bigger, then I'll sell Drama. Otherwise, quiet. Mezh grows next turn, so I'll wait to hire the extra scientists.
Turn 312, 1460 AD
Catch a spy near Moscow.
Magnitogorsk: Pikeman < Pikeman (1 turn)
Elektrogorsk: University < Caravel (6 turns). Why not?
St. Petersburg: Library < Confucian Monastery (28 turns). Eventual hammers.
Mezhdurechensk: Hire total of 5 scientists, stagnating the town (it should start growing again next turn when the harbor finishes). Cuts GP down from 23 to 14. It'll produce a GP before Stalingrad does. Hm. Did we want to let Stalingrad produce something first? Well, I'm sure you guys will let me know if this was a mistake.
Oh, right, we wanted the Great Priest so Moscow could get the Islamic Great Temple. Well, Stalingrad will still put something out in 20 turns (now) so it should be next in line, and it's not like we have spread Islam all over the place.
Cut slided to 70%. Replaceable parts still in 7, but we're making 4 gold instead of losing 31. Seems like a good trade-off to me. It'd be 8 without the extra scientists.
Everything else looks in order, so I hit enter.
Turn 313, 1465 AD
Lots finishes this turn.
Moscow: Islamic Monastery < Confucian Academy (9 turns)
Karachev: Aqueduct < Caravel (3 turns)
Magnitogorsk: Pikeman < uh, Pikeman (2 turns)
Mezhdurechensk: Harbor < Grocer (13 turns)
Svetlograd: Settler < University (7 turns). Last one for Oxford.
AP election is up. Now it's us vs. Capac. I vote for us because we don't need the extra dip with Capac, but I'm sure Napoleon is voting for Capac.
I see Capac has built a Caravel down south. And Napoleon is working on Astronomy (16 turns). Hmm. We're slowly gaining EPs on Capac, so might see his research in a few more turns.
Settler on its way.
I realize that I made a terrible mistake with worker actions down south. Built a farm where I meant to build a cottage. Urgh. Tear it up.
I notice that we are technically +10 with Napoleon now. Are we still pleased because he's planning to attack? We can see many of Napoleon's towns. Attack will be an issue at this point. They all have castles as far as I can tell. Though Cossaks will probably bust right through them (they count as gunpowder units for the purposes of bypassing walls and castles, right?).
Wow, Napoleon has a huge fleet in Orleans. 8 Caravels and 8 galleys. Not much to worry about, sure, but that's a lot of boats.
There is also a rainbow peace symbol next to Capac's name. I don't know what that means. Ohh . . . a defensive pact. Hmmm . . . . . I sign it! We can always cancel it later, and now if Napoleon attacks, heh heh heh. Capac probably won't provide much miltary support, but he'll be pissed at Napoleon for a bit.
I think I'm done here.
Stalingrad: Pikeman < Bank (7 turns) Realize that we should start building the gold boosting buildings here to make use of Bureaucracy.
Capac wins the elections, of course.
Turn 315, 1475 AD
Magnitogorsk: Pikeman < Pikeman (1 turn)
Someone gets a Great Engineer, and someone sailed around the world.
Rostov is founded. About dang time. Start a 45 turn Granary. Finish a nearby farm to water the wheat.
Otherwise, it's quiet. Too quiet. Napoleon dropped out of WHEOOH mode. Either he's ready to strike, or we spooked him with the Defensive Pact. We should see Capac's research next turn. Maybe the one after that. Napoleon has 280 gold laying around, but I'm not sure how to get it. Oh well.
Turn 316, 1480 AD
Karachev: Caravel < Confucian Missionary (2 turns) for Rostav.
Magnitogorks: Pikeman < Longbowman (1 turn) to shake things up.
Werzdaartist: Theatre < Lighthouse (5 turns) Borders expand in two turns. Maybe take Juli's cows?
Caravel sails into the distance. Maybe we can find a trade parter soon.
Capac upped the EP ante again, but I briefly saw his research. I think it's 5 turns to Gunpowder.
I'm pausing here to get lunch. Posting save in case anyone wants to take a look. I'm only 10 turns in, so I'll take another 10 after I eat.
Pre-turn: Turn 306, 1430 AD
Ok, so Napoleon is in WHEOOH mode, so he will surely attack soon. We have one turn of Golden Age Left.
One thing that I see needs to be done is to build a road connecting Magnitogorsk to the north. Since we have Engineering now, that southern riverbend isn't so much an obstacle and we want to be able to quickly move troops back and forth. I'll send over a worker as soon as one is free and provide it with escort.
I start a crossbowman on the path to Karachev.
I sadly note that we must wait a turn before we can change civics, by which time the Golden Age will be over. I still kind of think that we don't need slavery as much now.
Time to check the cities. (On a random note, I remembered to open a save from an older game; obsolete buildings do lose their functions, but retain their cultural value. That must be what confused me.)
Anyway, first change I make is in Elektrogorsk by hiring a spy. It's still earning +4 food, so I think it's fair. Maybe can hire an engineer, too, make this a grab-bag GP farm for the time being.
Not sure about the improvements around Svetlograd, but I'll come back to it later. May want to eventually replace some of the farms with workshops when it reaches max workable growth. By my calculations, we can replace two farms with workshops (assuming we do not go into State Property).
St. Petersburg is working on a market, but it has no library. Market is almost done, so I'll let it finish, but we're at 80% science so a library would probably do more good. I might want to put cottages on the northeastern grasslands since we're making +2 food anyway. A little extra gold can't hurt.
Hmm. Werzdaartist might run into food problems eventually. Finishing courthouse, maybe a lighthouse next and then a theatre and temple to fight Capac's culture. Might be a place for the Moai Statues, unless we settle a town with more water tiles.
Ok, things look decent as far as I can tell. We have a spy in Magnitogorsk, so I might as well send him into French territory to try and locate that stack. It's not in Grenoble, pretty weak garrison there.
Ok, I think we're done for this turn.
Can't beg any more gold off of Napoleon. Sad. Anyway, I make the trades suggested earlier. Hrm, except Napoleon won't trade off Optics for just Paper. He wants a bunch of cash, too. Erm . . . . I'll just make the trade with Capac, then. Guess we can take Optics off of Napoleon's cold, dead hands.
Turn 307, 1435 BC
Karachev: Castle < Aqueduct (5 turns). It'll grow in five turns and is already at the health limit.
Magnitogorsk: Longbowman < Knight! (2 Turns)
Our Golden Age ends and Napoleon gets a Great Spy. Hrm.
I'm still itching to change to Caste System. We can run at least two more scientists in Mezh, which would cut many turns off of our Great Scientist Generation. Maybe in a couple turns, though I guess this would be a rather unilateral move on my part. I'll check all of our towns, to see if we can afford to lose access to the whip.
We can use some more roads to provide shortcuts, so I'll start doing that with some of our workers.
Found Napoleon's stack, hiding between a mountain between Bactrian and Rheims. I'll shadow it.
End turn.
Turn 308, 1440 AD
Both clowns have banking available, but it's not required for Cossacks, so I won't trade for it. Move units and do worker stuff.
I also decide that it's long past time to settle our remaining two cities. I will get that done this set.
I also shift our EPs to Capac. We should be able to see his research in about 4-5 turns. Hopefully we can trade him education for stuff.
I set Svetlograd to a 4-turn Settler. We're losing money, but Military Tradition finishes next turn, and I'll make some adjustments . . . .
Turn 309, 1445 AD
Capac comes asking for Civil Service. I say no. We have so many pluses that he'll stay friendly for a long, long time.
Military Tradition is in. West Point is (not) enabled. Is there any reason that it should not go in Magnitogorsk eventually? Maybe after we take Napoleon's stone? I just realized that we need a high-level unit. Awww . . . .
Printing Press in 2 turns.
Moscow: Aqueduct < Islamic Monastery (3 turns) for science boost, I guess.
Magnitogorsk: Knight < Pikeman (2 turns) I realized that we need more.
St. Petersburg: Market < Library (34 turns)
I shove research up to 90%, getting Printing Press next turn for 69 gold (we were losing 36 gold at 80%, so this actually saves us money!). I'll hold off on any civic changes until next turn, at least.
Magnitogorsk's road is connected. Yay for easier transport!
I send our knight in to keep an eye on the stack so that we can pull our spy out. I just realized that we were probably keeping him in town to stop enemy sabatoge. Oops.
Hmm, the cost to see Capac's research went up. He must have put Espionage Points on us.
After we get Rifling, let's run to Constitution and Democracy so that we can get Jails and Security Bureaus. Espionage Points for everyone!
I go ahead and whip Novgorod for 2 to get a courthouse. +2 EP and slight decrease to maintenance for the win and whatnot!
Turn 310, 1450 AD
Printing Press is in. Set to Banking 'cuz I realized I should have traded for it. Doy. Will get on that.
Stalingrad: Knight < Pikeman (3 turns). Because I realized that we don't want to invest too heavily in knights.
Werzdaartist: Courthouse < Theatre (5 turns). Culture wars!
Novgorod: Courthouse < Confucian Monastery (90 turns). Meh.
Forest grows near Stalingrad. Huzzah.
What to trade . . . . We can give Napoleon Nationalism for both Banking and Optics. And some cash, which would be nice. We'd have to give Capac Civil Service and Drama for just banking and less cash. I trade with Napoleon because we already have the Taj, and if he really wants to draft, let him, I say. More troops for us to kill.
I'd really like to nab Gunpowder off of him, but that's 2 turns away and we need banking to continue our tech path. OK, I pull the Trigger.
Replaceable Parts is on the way. Before I end the turn, I'm going to decide if it's worth selling Drama to Capac for just 70 gold . . . .
Even though our EPs went up by 4, Capac is really hitting us, too. Dunno if we'll be able to see his tech any time soon. But we're still in the clear for Napoleon, so no reason not to keep trying, I say.
As for the money, I realize that, deep down, Capac really just wants us to have it. So I let him know. He agrees, and gives us 70 gold coins because we're the bestest of friends. "Don't spend it all in one place," he admonishes.
I reduce spending to 80% again, losing 27 gold but we have a decent cushion now. I'll probably put Svetlograd back on wealth after the first settler is done.
Karachev will build a Caravel or two next, I expect. Maybe Mezh can build one, as well. Time to meet the other guys for ourselves!
I whip the library for 2 in St. Petersburg. I think that'll be the last whip. Right now, the only towns that really need teh whip are St. Petersburg and Novgorod. Most other towns can slow build at a decent pace. I personally think that we will be better served by a higher rate of great people, so I switch to Caste System. Now the Russian people can know their place!
I do apologize that I did this basically without warning. Hopefully I will be forgiven.
Turn 311, 1455 AD
Revolution completes. Capac has more money now. 120. I'll wait a couple turns to see if it gets bigger, then I'll sell Drama. Otherwise, quiet. Mezh grows next turn, so I'll wait to hire the extra scientists.
Turn 312, 1460 AD
Catch a spy near Moscow.
Magnitogorsk: Pikeman < Pikeman (1 turn)
Elektrogorsk: University < Caravel (6 turns). Why not?
St. Petersburg: Library < Confucian Monastery (28 turns). Eventual hammers.
Mezhdurechensk: Hire total of 5 scientists, stagnating the town (it should start growing again next turn when the harbor finishes). Cuts GP down from 23 to 14. It'll produce a GP before Stalingrad does. Hm. Did we want to let Stalingrad produce something first? Well, I'm sure you guys will let me know if this was a mistake.
Oh, right, we wanted the Great Priest so Moscow could get the Islamic Great Temple. Well, Stalingrad will still put something out in 20 turns (now) so it should be next in line, and it's not like we have spread Islam all over the place.
Cut slided to 70%. Replaceable parts still in 7, but we're making 4 gold instead of losing 31. Seems like a good trade-off to me. It'd be 8 without the extra scientists.
Everything else looks in order, so I hit enter.
Turn 313, 1465 AD
Lots finishes this turn.
Moscow: Islamic Monastery < Confucian Academy (9 turns)
Karachev: Aqueduct < Caravel (3 turns)
Magnitogorsk: Pikeman < uh, Pikeman (2 turns)
Mezhdurechensk: Harbor < Grocer (13 turns)
Svetlograd: Settler < University (7 turns). Last one for Oxford.
AP election is up. Now it's us vs. Capac. I vote for us because we don't need the extra dip with Capac, but I'm sure Napoleon is voting for Capac.
I see Capac has built a Caravel down south. And Napoleon is working on Astronomy (16 turns). Hmm. We're slowly gaining EPs on Capac, so might see his research in a few more turns.
Settler on its way.
I realize that I made a terrible mistake with worker actions down south. Built a farm where I meant to build a cottage. Urgh. Tear it up.
I notice that we are technically +10 with Napoleon now. Are we still pleased because he's planning to attack? We can see many of Napoleon's towns. Attack will be an issue at this point. They all have castles as far as I can tell. Though Cossaks will probably bust right through them (they count as gunpowder units for the purposes of bypassing walls and castles, right?).
Wow, Napoleon has a huge fleet in Orleans. 8 Caravels and 8 galleys. Not much to worry about, sure, but that's a lot of boats.
There is also a rainbow peace symbol next to Capac's name. I don't know what that means. Ohh . . . a defensive pact. Hmmm . . . . . I sign it! We can always cancel it later, and now if Napoleon attacks, heh heh heh. Capac probably won't provide much miltary support, but he'll be pissed at Napoleon for a bit.
I think I'm done here.
Stalingrad: Pikeman < Bank (7 turns) Realize that we should start building the gold boosting buildings here to make use of Bureaucracy.
Capac wins the elections, of course.
Turn 315, 1475 AD
Magnitogorsk: Pikeman < Pikeman (1 turn)
Someone gets a Great Engineer, and someone sailed around the world.
Rostov is founded. About dang time. Start a 45 turn Granary. Finish a nearby farm to water the wheat.
Otherwise, it's quiet. Too quiet. Napoleon dropped out of WHEOOH mode. Either he's ready to strike, or we spooked him with the Defensive Pact. We should see Capac's research next turn. Maybe the one after that. Napoleon has 280 gold laying around, but I'm not sure how to get it. Oh well.
Turn 316, 1480 AD
Karachev: Caravel < Confucian Missionary (2 turns) for Rostav.
Magnitogorks: Pikeman < Longbowman (1 turn) to shake things up.
Werzdaartist: Theatre < Lighthouse (5 turns) Borders expand in two turns. Maybe take Juli's cows?
Caravel sails into the distance. Maybe we can find a trade parter soon.
Capac upped the EP ante again, but I briefly saw his research. I think it's 5 turns to Gunpowder.
I'm pausing here to get lunch. Posting save in case anyone wants to take a look. I'm only 10 turns in, so I'll take another 10 after I eat.
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Can't look at the save but it all sounds good! Nappy's too scared to attack, looks like. Good move on the defensive pact with Huayna. I'd make a grocer and a bank a priority in Moscow for a boost in gold, even with the slider high it'll make a difference since it's working on pure gold, not commerce.
I'd rather have more Great Scientists than a Priest so no worries on Mezh - producing great people is its job. If we do get a priest I obviously won't complain, though, but I don't think it's important enough to make it a priority. Once Huayna has Gunpowder give him whatever he wants for it and put our three production cities on full-on cuirassers build mode. Max production.
Cossacks are considered gunpowder units so walls and castles are worthless against them. Spy support would be nice to completely get rid of cultural defences but since the 3.17 patch the city revolt espionage mission costs a lot more than it used to, making it pretty unattractive. I think we're just going to ram stacks of cossacks into his cities, with Flanking II the vast majority will survive. First GG can be a Medic III to speed up the war even more.
We can consider using our next GP for a golden age to boost the war preparations, though if it's a scientist I dunno if he'd be better served doing that or making an academy, and if it's a priest maybe the Islamic Shrine is better. If it's anything else, though...
I'd rather have more Great Scientists than a Priest so no worries on Mezh - producing great people is its job. If we do get a priest I obviously won't complain, though, but I don't think it's important enough to make it a priority. Once Huayna has Gunpowder give him whatever he wants for it and put our three production cities on full-on cuirassers build mode. Max production.
Cossacks are considered gunpowder units so walls and castles are worthless against them. Spy support would be nice to completely get rid of cultural defences but since the 3.17 patch the city revolt espionage mission costs a lot more than it used to, making it pretty unattractive. I think we're just going to ram stacks of cossacks into his cities, with Flanking II the vast majority will survive. First GG can be a Medic III to speed up the war even more.
We can consider using our next GP for a golden age to boost the war preparations, though if it's a scientist I dunno if he'd be better served doing that or making an academy, and if it's a priest maybe the Islamic Shrine is better. If it's anything else, though...
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Smoke and Mirrors: Round Two!
OK, so Whosit is fed and is ready to wrap things up. The first order of business is to rename our exploring Caravel. "Red Horizon" it is! Everything else seems well in hand.
Onto the next turn!
Turn 317, 1485 AD
Can finally see Capac's research. Gunpowder in 3. Hopefully he'll trade.
Magnitogorks: Longbowman < Longbowman (2 turns)
Elektrogorsk: Caravel < Barracks (3 turns). Just in case, I guess.
Napoleon has started to build Musketeers.
We break a bottle of fine Elektrogorskian wine on the bow of "Skipper Inspector," which promptly sails off.
Workers do stuff. Whee. Turn science down to 60% to stop losing money. I thought we were making money? *sigh* Replaceable Parts in 2, still.
Turn 318, 1490 AD
Novosibirsk: Market < Forge (9 turns). Squeeze another hammer out of the town before we get a library.
Karachev: Confucian Missionary < Settler (6 Turns)
We're slowly but surely pushing on Juli. Don't have the cows yet, though. At least Capac has to bottle all those troops up there.
Turn 319, 1495 AD
Replaceable Parts is in! Load up Constitution while I decide what to do.
Magnitogorks: Longbowman < Library (3 turns) to shake things up. I think we'll be good on units to spare a few turns. Rostov gets Confucianism.
I decide to throw a turn into Constitution. I considered Economics for the free Great Merchant, but it also obsoletes Castles and I wanna get those EP buildings. Hopefully Capac will trade Gunpowder next turn, otherwise, I'll tech it.
Turn 320, 1500 AD
Elektrogorsk: Barracks < Theatre (3 turns)
Svetlograd: University < Grocer (5 turns). For health benefits as well as commerce boost.
Napoleon adopts mercantilism, cutting our income a bit.
Red Horizon spies blue borders not far off in the distance. Who could it be?!
It is Suryavarman II of the Khmer. For some reason, I've never liked him.
Well, he's completely backwards. I sign open borders just to make nice with him. I also see no reason to assign EPs to him.
OK, Capac should have Gunpowder done next turn . . . .
Turn 321, 1505 AD
Spy caught near Rostav. Bank in Stalingrad helps our income. Someone gets a great scientist. A forest grows near Elektrogorsk! Yayyy!!
Stalingrad: Bank < Market (6 turns). Yay for money!
Werzdaartist: Lighthouse < Forge (7 turns). Temples and Library would be nice for culture, but it's making fair amounts of hammers, so this is good.
La-dee-daa. Oh, right, trade! OK, so Printing Press is really the only thing I can give the Financial Capac. We get Gunpowder, 180 gold, and a world map. OK. We learn much. Capac seems to have gotten Napoleon's map who got other people's maps. We can see the other civs, now.
Normally I wouldn't do this, but I don't know if I can risk passing it up. Napoleon has 430 gold. I sell him Printing Press before Capac can. Napoleon is now FRIENDLY! o_O
Suryavarman has 60 gold. Oh, I'll sell Music, why not? He's now pleased 'cuz we're so nice.
So we have the Ethiopians, the Chinese, and the Maya on the other big continent. The Khmer appear to have been isolated. Ethiopians founded Buddhism, and have the religion in all their towns, so they are probably Buddhist. Chinese founded Taoism, but have a lot of Hindu and Buddhist. Dunno what they are. Maya founded Hinduism and Judaism and are clearly Hindu. Sounds like a blast over there.
I think that I will spread Confucianism to the poor Khmer.
Turn 322, 1510 AD
Moscow: Confucian Academy < Confucian Missionary (2 turns)
Magnitogorsk: Library < Longbowman (1 turn)
Napoleon will sign a defensive pact, but, uh, I won't. Huayna is working on Civil Service. I make a note to sell it to him when he is just about finished. Yikes. Napoleon has 100 gold now. Maybe I should have waited to sell?
Also, I do what I forgot to do at the end of last turn . . . . Kick up research to 70%, shaving off a turn of research while losing a bit of money. But we have a nice bankroll.
Turn 323, 1515 AD
Napoleon wants to trade world maps. Nah.
Magnitogorsk: Longbowman < University (8 turns)
Elektrogorsk: Theatre < Bank (14 turns)
Turn 324, 1520 AD
Encounter Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia. Sign Open Borders while I get the chance (he doesn't like us "heathens" much. He is a bit backwards, too.
Moscow: Missionary < Cuirassier (6 turns)
Karachev: Settler < Caravel (3 turns). To transport the missionary I just built.
Geez, Napoleon has 230 gold now. Did I mess up earlier or what? Is he selling tech to the other guys?
Turn 325, 1525 AD
We run into Mao of the Hindu Chinese, but he doesn't care that we're Confucian. He also has Astronomy . . . . But lacks much else. Won't trade. Open Borders? OK. He has Pigs, Gold, and Spices. Will he take Cows, sheep, and wheat? Yes. And he'll give us 10 gpt for Furs.
I missed the chance to sell Capac CS. Last turn it said he had 2 turns to go, but he has it now.
Svetlograd: Grocer < Bank (6 turns)
Moscow loves us. I take a look at Napoleon's trades with us. Renegotiate the fur trade from 8 gpt to 13 gpt. Capac: Sheep for gold; 6 gpt < 8 gpt. No one else we can trade with.
Final White Dot is settled. Yaroslavl'. And it makes us go from +7 to -7. *weeps* I shudder to think what we'd be paying if I didn't get all that gold. 90 turn granary.
Spot a Mayan boat. Open Borders! Holy cow! They have 230 gold, but 23 gpt!! But we can't trade with them.
They are fairly advanced. Can't get Astronomy from the Chinese, and I'm sure that Pacal won't have such a trade surplus in a few turns.
Napoleon has been in WHEOOH mode for a bit. Who will he attack? He's still Friendly with us (and was friendly before he got busy).
I cut research to 60%. Still get Rifling in 7 turns, but we make 34 gold instead of losing 7. Overflow be damned. I belatedly slot in a 3 turn Cuirassier in Magnitogorsk over the University. We can probably build 2 before we get Rifling.
I shift a few EPs to Pacal. Capac is still spending on us, so I weight him at 2.
I am contrary and spend the waiting Missionary on the new town. We'll need another to send to the Khmer.
Turn 326, 1530 AD
Mezhdurechensk: Grocer < Work boat (3) (For Yaroslavl') Great Scientist. Next in 20! But first Stalingrad will give us something in 16, so probably longer. I recommend an Academy in Stalingrad, followed by one in Mezh.
Karachev will finish its Caravel next turn. Have it build the Missionary and then send it over. I buy Suryavarman's map for 20 gold. His land isn't terribly impressive, but we might as well "relieve" him of it at some point.
Capac is working on Drama ("2 turns away"). He has 110 gold, so we might as well sell it to him. Napoleon has 380 gold. How?! He won't give it to us, either.
Note: Zara is worst enemy of Mao. Zara probably won't be too friendly with us, and Mao is much more advanced. I already signed open borders with Zara, but let's think twice about trading with him again, and think about siding with the Chinese over the Ethiopians. Unfortunately, no wars are currently active.
Most tiles around Rostov have been improved. Still need a hill mine. New town needs a worker crew to chop it out, build farms, or whatever. Mezh can build Oxford whenever.
Not sure what to do with Yaro. It can do some decent hammers, already has a mine and a quarry. Can build another mine. Clams will give it some food to work with. Maybe a farm or two, and workshops? We could make it a production town, or we could just cottage everything and get a quasi-commerce town. Note that it could steal a grassland mine from Mezh (Mezh could work more farms), so I'm edging towards production. We don't really have a good coastal industrial town, anyway, and we will probably want at least a small navy at some point.
I kind of lost track of Napoleon's stack, but we still have a knight that can try and sniff it out. Anyway, I think we're in a pretty good position. We'll want Astronomy soon, too, to trade with more overseas people. Otherwise, let's get some of those financial buildings built, especially banks. We're running 60% science so the income will make a difference.
Note: I miscalculated. The workshop south of Rostov should probably be a farm? Maybe. As everything stands, it won't be able to work ALL tiles, but a lot of them, including all the workshops and grass hills (but not the desert hill). Maybe pull in 32 hammers when all is said and done (before any modifiers). Yummy.
Edit: I did goof a bit. Didn't get on the Cuirassier builds as quick as I should have, and as Glare mentioned, Moscow needs banking buildings.
So I think the roster is:
Whosit (just played -- for great justice!)
Dave Hartwick (up)
Glare Seethe (on deck)
radiofreestl
Norvin Green
Tho' Dave mentioned in High Seas that he's busy this weekend and will take that set Monday. If you're still prowling the forums, let us know if you want to take it at the start of the week, or pass your turn.
OK, so Whosit is fed and is ready to wrap things up. The first order of business is to rename our exploring Caravel. "Red Horizon" it is! Everything else seems well in hand.
Onto the next turn!
Turn 317, 1485 AD
Can finally see Capac's research. Gunpowder in 3. Hopefully he'll trade.
Magnitogorks: Longbowman < Longbowman (2 turns)
Elektrogorsk: Caravel < Barracks (3 turns). Just in case, I guess.
Napoleon has started to build Musketeers.
We break a bottle of fine Elektrogorskian wine on the bow of "Skipper Inspector," which promptly sails off.
Workers do stuff. Whee. Turn science down to 60% to stop losing money. I thought we were making money? *sigh* Replaceable Parts in 2, still.
Turn 318, 1490 AD
Novosibirsk: Market < Forge (9 turns). Squeeze another hammer out of the town before we get a library.
Karachev: Confucian Missionary < Settler (6 Turns)
We're slowly but surely pushing on Juli. Don't have the cows yet, though. At least Capac has to bottle all those troops up there.
Turn 319, 1495 AD
Replaceable Parts is in! Load up Constitution while I decide what to do.
Magnitogorks: Longbowman < Library (3 turns) to shake things up. I think we'll be good on units to spare a few turns. Rostov gets Confucianism.
I decide to throw a turn into Constitution. I considered Economics for the free Great Merchant, but it also obsoletes Castles and I wanna get those EP buildings. Hopefully Capac will trade Gunpowder next turn, otherwise, I'll tech it.
Turn 320, 1500 AD
Elektrogorsk: Barracks < Theatre (3 turns)
Svetlograd: University < Grocer (5 turns). For health benefits as well as commerce boost.
Napoleon adopts mercantilism, cutting our income a bit.
Red Horizon spies blue borders not far off in the distance. Who could it be?!
It is Suryavarman II of the Khmer. For some reason, I've never liked him.
Well, he's completely backwards. I sign open borders just to make nice with him. I also see no reason to assign EPs to him.
OK, Capac should have Gunpowder done next turn . . . .
Turn 321, 1505 AD
Spy caught near Rostav. Bank in Stalingrad helps our income. Someone gets a great scientist. A forest grows near Elektrogorsk! Yayyy!!
Stalingrad: Bank < Market (6 turns). Yay for money!
Werzdaartist: Lighthouse < Forge (7 turns). Temples and Library would be nice for culture, but it's making fair amounts of hammers, so this is good.
La-dee-daa. Oh, right, trade! OK, so Printing Press is really the only thing I can give the Financial Capac. We get Gunpowder, 180 gold, and a world map. OK. We learn much. Capac seems to have gotten Napoleon's map who got other people's maps. We can see the other civs, now.
Normally I wouldn't do this, but I don't know if I can risk passing it up. Napoleon has 430 gold. I sell him Printing Press before Capac can. Napoleon is now FRIENDLY! o_O
Suryavarman has 60 gold. Oh, I'll sell Music, why not? He's now pleased 'cuz we're so nice.
So we have the Ethiopians, the Chinese, and the Maya on the other big continent. The Khmer appear to have been isolated. Ethiopians founded Buddhism, and have the religion in all their towns, so they are probably Buddhist. Chinese founded Taoism, but have a lot of Hindu and Buddhist. Dunno what they are. Maya founded Hinduism and Judaism and are clearly Hindu. Sounds like a blast over there.
I think that I will spread Confucianism to the poor Khmer.
Turn 322, 1510 AD
Moscow: Confucian Academy < Confucian Missionary (2 turns)
Magnitogorsk: Library < Longbowman (1 turn)
Napoleon will sign a defensive pact, but, uh, I won't. Huayna is working on Civil Service. I make a note to sell it to him when he is just about finished. Yikes. Napoleon has 100 gold now. Maybe I should have waited to sell?
Also, I do what I forgot to do at the end of last turn . . . . Kick up research to 70%, shaving off a turn of research while losing a bit of money. But we have a nice bankroll.
Turn 323, 1515 AD
Napoleon wants to trade world maps. Nah.
Magnitogorsk: Longbowman < University (8 turns)
Elektrogorsk: Theatre < Bank (14 turns)
Turn 324, 1520 AD
Encounter Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia. Sign Open Borders while I get the chance (he doesn't like us "heathens" much. He is a bit backwards, too.
Moscow: Missionary < Cuirassier (6 turns)
Karachev: Settler < Caravel (3 turns). To transport the missionary I just built.
Geez, Napoleon has 230 gold now. Did I mess up earlier or what? Is he selling tech to the other guys?
Turn 325, 1525 AD
We run into Mao of the Hindu Chinese, but he doesn't care that we're Confucian. He also has Astronomy . . . . But lacks much else. Won't trade. Open Borders? OK. He has Pigs, Gold, and Spices. Will he take Cows, sheep, and wheat? Yes. And he'll give us 10 gpt for Furs.
I missed the chance to sell Capac CS. Last turn it said he had 2 turns to go, but he has it now.
Svetlograd: Grocer < Bank (6 turns)
Moscow loves us. I take a look at Napoleon's trades with us. Renegotiate the fur trade from 8 gpt to 13 gpt. Capac: Sheep for gold; 6 gpt < 8 gpt. No one else we can trade with.
Final White Dot is settled. Yaroslavl'. And it makes us go from +7 to -7. *weeps* I shudder to think what we'd be paying if I didn't get all that gold. 90 turn granary.
Spot a Mayan boat. Open Borders! Holy cow! They have 230 gold, but 23 gpt!! But we can't trade with them.
They are fairly advanced. Can't get Astronomy from the Chinese, and I'm sure that Pacal won't have such a trade surplus in a few turns.
Napoleon has been in WHEOOH mode for a bit. Who will he attack? He's still Friendly with us (and was friendly before he got busy).
I cut research to 60%. Still get Rifling in 7 turns, but we make 34 gold instead of losing 7. Overflow be damned. I belatedly slot in a 3 turn Cuirassier in Magnitogorsk over the University. We can probably build 2 before we get Rifling.
I shift a few EPs to Pacal. Capac is still spending on us, so I weight him at 2.
I am contrary and spend the waiting Missionary on the new town. We'll need another to send to the Khmer.
Turn 326, 1530 AD
Mezhdurechensk: Grocer < Work boat (3) (For Yaroslavl') Great Scientist. Next in 20! But first Stalingrad will give us something in 16, so probably longer. I recommend an Academy in Stalingrad, followed by one in Mezh.
Karachev will finish its Caravel next turn. Have it build the Missionary and then send it over. I buy Suryavarman's map for 20 gold. His land isn't terribly impressive, but we might as well "relieve" him of it at some point.
Capac is working on Drama ("2 turns away"). He has 110 gold, so we might as well sell it to him. Napoleon has 380 gold. How?! He won't give it to us, either.
Note: Zara is worst enemy of Mao. Zara probably won't be too friendly with us, and Mao is much more advanced. I already signed open borders with Zara, but let's think twice about trading with him again, and think about siding with the Chinese over the Ethiopians. Unfortunately, no wars are currently active.
Most tiles around Rostov have been improved. Still need a hill mine. New town needs a worker crew to chop it out, build farms, or whatever. Mezh can build Oxford whenever.
Not sure what to do with Yaro. It can do some decent hammers, already has a mine and a quarry. Can build another mine. Clams will give it some food to work with. Maybe a farm or two, and workshops? We could make it a production town, or we could just cottage everything and get a quasi-commerce town. Note that it could steal a grassland mine from Mezh (Mezh could work more farms), so I'm edging towards production. We don't really have a good coastal industrial town, anyway, and we will probably want at least a small navy at some point.
I kind of lost track of Napoleon's stack, but we still have a knight that can try and sniff it out. Anyway, I think we're in a pretty good position. We'll want Astronomy soon, too, to trade with more overseas people. Otherwise, let's get some of those financial buildings built, especially banks. We're running 60% science so the income will make a difference.
Note: I miscalculated. The workshop south of Rostov should probably be a farm? Maybe. As everything stands, it won't be able to work ALL tiles, but a lot of them, including all the workshops and grass hills (but not the desert hill). Maybe pull in 32 hammers when all is said and done (before any modifiers). Yummy.
Edit: I did goof a bit. Didn't get on the Cuirassier builds as quick as I should have, and as Glare mentioned, Moscow needs banking buildings.
So I think the roster is:
Whosit (just played -- for great justice!)
Dave Hartwick (up)
Glare Seethe (on deck)
radiofreestl
Norvin Green
Tho' Dave mentioned in High Seas that he's busy this weekend and will take that set Monday. If you're still prowling the forums, let us know if you want to take it at the start of the week, or pass your turn.
Glare Seethe
Prince
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 547
Eventful round, so lots to comment about...
First of all, you are building a bank in Svetlograd and a cuirasser in Moscow. Should be the other way around! At this point we shouldn't mess around anymore, slider to 100% (we have tons of gold - don't want to solicit requests/demands that we'll turn down and suffer a diplo penalty for) straight to Rifling, most cities - especially our production cities like Magnitogorsk which should not waste hammers on universities unless we really need one to open up Oxford - should build cuirassers/cavalry nonstop.
I'd leave Moscow to build the gold multipliers first but most other cities should be building units at this point, let's just set a rally point to Magnitogorsk.
I would not have traded Printing Press to Nappy, he is now only two techs away from Rifling and we don't even have a single cuirasser built. Diplo situation looks good, though. Zara we should not trade with cause he's Mao's worst enemy and different religions means we will never be friends (since he places a lot of importance on religion), at least until Free Religion. Oof course worst enemies change all the time, so we should keep an eye on that. Generally that tech screen demonstrates that we have already won this game, it's just a matter of actually getting the job done. We can just as easily tech to space at this point, but that's just not as fun I think...
Some micro issues... Stalingrad should be growing one of those southern cottages instead of working a plains forest. Rostov should work the cows instead of the horses. Nothing big. Werzdaartist's cottages should be farmed over, they are useless for a production city. I agree it should have Moai but we shouldn't build it until we capture stone for Nappy. I see this city producing our navy. If we build forts near Novosibirsk's silver mines we'll have a canal for our ships to pass through.
Tech path, well, I think Constitution can wait, I'd rather have cannons than jails. For me Chemistry > Steel should be next. If Nappy gets Rifling and we can't attack we can turn around and hit Huayna instead, hopefully, with cannon support if necessary. Honestly cavalry and cannons are all we need to clear our continent.
We can also just aim for UN... tech to Mass Media, gift it to the least popular AI (Zara?), wait for it to get built and win UN victory with Nappy and Huayna voting for us. We are the largest in land so if we spam cities and focus on growth (corporation-supported?) we should be able to get to no. 1 in population too.
I'd personally rather go domination... but the game is won, we'd have to make a monumental series of mistakes to lose it at this point.
First of all, you are building a bank in Svetlograd and a cuirasser in Moscow. Should be the other way around! At this point we shouldn't mess around anymore, slider to 100% (we have tons of gold - don't want to solicit requests/demands that we'll turn down and suffer a diplo penalty for) straight to Rifling, most cities - especially our production cities like Magnitogorsk which should not waste hammers on universities unless we really need one to open up Oxford - should build cuirassers/cavalry nonstop.
I'd leave Moscow to build the gold multipliers first but most other cities should be building units at this point, let's just set a rally point to Magnitogorsk.
I would not have traded Printing Press to Nappy, he is now only two techs away from Rifling and we don't even have a single cuirasser built. Diplo situation looks good, though. Zara we should not trade with cause he's Mao's worst enemy and different religions means we will never be friends (since he places a lot of importance on religion), at least until Free Religion. Oof course worst enemies change all the time, so we should keep an eye on that. Generally that tech screen demonstrates that we have already won this game, it's just a matter of actually getting the job done. We can just as easily tech to space at this point, but that's just not as fun I think...
Some micro issues... Stalingrad should be growing one of those southern cottages instead of working a plains forest. Rostov should work the cows instead of the horses. Nothing big. Werzdaartist's cottages should be farmed over, they are useless for a production city. I agree it should have Moai but we shouldn't build it until we capture stone for Nappy. I see this city producing our navy. If we build forts near Novosibirsk's silver mines we'll have a canal for our ships to pass through.
Tech path, well, I think Constitution can wait, I'd rather have cannons than jails. For me Chemistry > Steel should be next. If Nappy gets Rifling and we can't attack we can turn around and hit Huayna instead, hopefully, with cannon support if necessary. Honestly cavalry and cannons are all we need to clear our continent.
We can also just aim for UN... tech to Mass Media, gift it to the least popular AI (Zara?), wait for it to get built and win UN victory with Nappy and Huayna voting for us. We are the largest in land so if we spam cities and focus on growth (corporation-supported?) we should be able to get to no. 1 in population too.
I'd personally rather go domination... but the game is won, we'd have to make a monumental series of mistakes to lose it at this point.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
I agree. War for the win!
As far as Rostov's tiles, this may be due to my misunderstanding of how granaries work, because it was originally working the cow. Thought it'd work out better if the granary was built first, but it seems I was wrong about that. Whoops.
Nice eye on the canal project. There was something else . . . but I lost it. Oh, right, my fixation on espionage points. Blame the Builder.
Hmm, since this game is "as good as won," maybe we should do something harder next time? How about a One-city-challenge on a huge, continents map, conquest only?
As far as Rostov's tiles, this may be due to my misunderstanding of how granaries work, because it was originally working the cow. Thought it'd work out better if the granary was built first, but it seems I was wrong about that. Whoops.
Nice eye on the canal project. There was something else . . . but I lost it. Oh, right, my fixation on espionage points. Blame the Builder.
Hmm, since this game is "as good as won," maybe we should do something harder next time? How about a One-city-challenge on a huge, continents map, conquest only?
Norvin_Green
Emperor
Nice set and report Whosit! Being a realist I'd say lets get the "W" first before plannign our next game. p.s. My vote is domination as well.
p.s. My vote is domination as well.Similar threads
