SANCTA Embassy & Intelligence

[damnrunner]

Do we have a good estimate on how much Science Sancta is producing? Since they just teched RP, they should get Rifling really soon after we do – we might have 1 or 2 turns on them but that is about it. Once they can start drafting large numbers of rifles it will make our attack much more difficult. Still most of their large cities are pretty far away and it will take them a while to move drafted units to the front line.

Does anyone want to game out Sancta’s optimum attack plan vs. our stack. It would be nice to know what the worst case scenario we could face is. I’ll try to work out something on this and will be factoring in a massive dose of luck on Sancta’s behalf as well.

Also I noticed that sancta upgraded most of their knights with the withdrawal promotion. And after winning against Sancta’s muskets they added pinch promotions. The single withdrawal promotion seems an odd choice. Anyone have ideas what they are thinking?

Lastly, there anything our spy can do to disrupt sancta? Right now we are doing some good exploration but what about covert ops (I think cutting some roads could be really helpful). Again I am not a BTS player so I have no concept of how the cost and risk here would work out.

 

[cav scout]

I just noticed that Memphus said he got replaceable part from a "solid trade" in the turn log thread?! I asked slaze about it and he has no idea...

 

[damnrunner]

Diplo screen should indicate if there was any under the table tech trading. I suspect it is just Sancta being sneeky.

 

[damnrunner]

How is this for declaration of war to post in the main forum. It also hints that we are going after Phoenix.

We hope this will meet the ballerinas’ high standards for role playing. We will be happy to accept the disbandment of all units in Zero and Phoenix as notice of your satisfaction. Also, our team has long noted that these are aptly named cities to face destruction.

“Inspired by the Confucian religious revival and in anticipation of a long prophesied Messiah, the zealous young men of Kazakhstan have enlisted by the thousands to join the Royal Kazakh Expeditionary Force (RKEF) and reclaim the promised lands from whence the headwaters of the Irtysh and Syr Darya Rivers flow. Fortified by their Confucian faith, the young men of Kazakhstan know they will have the strength to resist the hated pagan gods of Ra, Nemesis, and Gaia when they meet again on the field of battle.”

“May all your ballerinas tremble as they face the dreaded Kazakh sharpshooters”

 

[cav scout]

Diplo screen should indicate if there was any under the table tech trading. I suspect it is just Sancta being sneeky.

I was thinking...perhaps this was the reason for the phony war? To create bad feelings on the diplo screen to conceal the trade. I'm probably just being paranoid, seems to be a Kazakh pastime.

As far as the note, I like it! Did you want to post it in the forum if we do attack this turn?

 

[Jimmy369]

From a flavour point of view, post it immediately after you play the turn. i may have to steal some of that phrasing when I get around to the historical events thread again, damnrunner. It certainly is intriguing.

 

[damnrunner]

Interestig thoughts on the phony war. Could it have been a means to close borders?

 

[cav scout]

Posted the DoW message in the turn discussion thread and sent this pm to memphus to hopefully get them to hesitate.

Sure you don't want to reconsider some of the possibilities raised in our previous discussions? The cost/benefit equation is probably a bit different for you then from before.

 

[damnrunner]

Nice touch.

 

[cav scout]

Got this back from memphus:

Sure you don't want to reconsider some of the possibilities raised in our previous discussions? The cost/benefit equation is probably a bit different for you then from before.

we certaintly would. What are you proposing?

What shall we say to string him along?

 

[damnrunner]

Allow us to raze Zero and Phonex.

They attack Cav's stack. They gift TKY and DT - we follow up and kill Cav's stack.

 

[cav scout]

Chat with Memphus:

Spoiler :

Memphus says:
So the cost Benefit is quite different
Memphus says:
Simming it out, all we can do now is choose who wins the game.
Memphus says:
your stack & reinforcements is stronger than Cav's
Memphus says:
if we attack you Cav runs through us and then easily win the game
Memphus says:
if we attack Cav you can run through us, but do you stop and hit cav ever?
Jon says:
well we could work with cav to wipe you off the map of course
Memphus says:
true
Jon says:
and then let figure out things with them after you are gone
Memphus says:
guarantted cav win.
Memphus says:
you could work with cav to still do that
Memphus says:
but if our units happen to only attack thier advancing stacks not yours....
Memphus says:
then you have many more troops in the long run for after the dust settles.
Jon says:
true
Memphus says:
I guess where I am going with this is your opening asked us to abadon zero and walk away.
Memphus says:
what if we do that?
Jon says:
well in our previous discussion tky was always the sticking point
Memphus says:
that it was, but that is currently our only way to hold back cav.
Memphus says:
(I have proposed TKY to the team as well)
Jon says:
well do you see any possibility of hold zero, tky, chai and zue cha against cav and us?
Memphus says:
yup
Jon says:
ah ok
Memphus says:
but for itnerest sake if we gifted you TKY or walked away from it and zero, where would that get us?
Memphus says:
you woudl still have all your troops and would jsut press us at that point no?
Memphus says:
btw if you had waited one more turn to declare....you coudl of easily walked through us
Memphus says:
i would of attacked one of the 2 cav stacks.
Memphus says:
and then all our units would have been damaged / dead.
Memphus says:
but now with 3 stacks I am not sure If attacking this turn (cav) is the way to go.
Jon says:
well how much do you think our combined forces could roll up cav?
Memphus says:
right to their capital
Jon says:

Memphus says:
assumign neither of us built anymore troops.
Memphus says:
sancta has enough units this turn to wipe out 1 of the 2 cav stacks.
Memphus says:
your initial stack easily kills thier other one.
Memphus says:
meaning we are at about +10 rifles on them now. they also have minimal defences throughout thier empire.
Jon says:
well what would be the division of spoils?
Memphus says:
all of cavs land would be yours.
Memphus says:
every city.
Jon says:
so are we back to tky as the sticking point?
Memphus says:
is that the stiking point?
Jon says:
well i know you guys built globe there
Memphus says:
it can draft 1 unit every turn.
Jon says:
some on our team say you guys will never gift it now
Memphus says:
meh
Memphus says:
if we had a concrete deal that once you have TKY you go right for cav
Memphus says:
i can see it happening
Jon says:
well we'd need assurances that you'd go after them 100% alongside us
Memphus says:
might as well...we need to put a dent in them to re-balance the game
Jon says:
and that we could come out with a relative balance of power
Jon says:
swapping 2nd place from behind cav to behind you doesnt really change all that much for us
Memphus says:
with TKY and Zero you are 1st with your stack.
Jon says:
so getting cav's land would go a long way to evening things out
Memphus says:
take 4 of Cav's city's at their mouth and look out.
Memphus says:
Cav without you to tech and they start falling behind fast.
Memphus says:
back in 30 min work meeting.
Jon says:
k

 

[damnrunner]

So they think they can kill either our stack or Cav's apparently? Lets press the point on that to see what they say. How they plan to kill either stack would be interesting. Could gain some intel on their strategy and units.

I think our response is that TKY is a crucial if we backstab Cav. We can't have an empire split in the middle by TKY.

Also Sancta does not face elimination if they lose the battle now. They have a lot of cities and while our combined army can probably win in the valley - pressing forward after that will be very hard.

We may want to say something along these lines.
If Cav starts winning and takes all the cities Cav could continue spamming units and could roll over Sancta - and then everyone else. But if we take the valley cities we are in a situation where we will need to consolidate power. Also if we did start to roll over Sancta, Cav could easily attack our flank to keep us in check.

 

[mikotian]

I think our immediate goal is twofold:
1) find out more about Sancta's strategy and tactics. That's a very good observation Cavscout
2) Try to convince Sancta to attack Cav's stack, not ours! If they think that there's a chance that we can be allies, even a small chance, then the odds of preserving our stack goes much higher. We just have to string them along for 1-2 turns.

 

[cav scout]

More from Memphus:

Spoiler :

Memphus says:
so if we walk away from Zero this turn (aka an easy capture for you next turn, no troop loses)
Memphus says:
woudl you then write up something formal upon the surrend of TKY from us?
Jon says:
well you could gift us tky and that would stop cav cold in their tracks
Memphus says:
would it? then then jsut run on the roads right to our next city.
Jon says:
we close borders with them, push there stack on open ground
Jon says:
you attack it
Memphus says:
hmmmm
Memphus says:
now that is very interesting
Jon says:
gifting gives automatic culture for the small bfc right?
Memphus says:
not sure I will have to sim
Memphus says:
because we have culture from our other cities there too...
Jon says:
and we do open borders with you at the same time so you can attack before cav's turn
Memphus says:
but gifting i think removes our orinigal culture
Jon says:
well if they are on the hill right next to tky it would push them 1 west right?
Memphus says:
it should if the culture works.
Jon says:
they wouldnt have time to react because you could attack before their turn
Jon says:
cancels out the guerilla bonuses
Memphus says:
they only have 1 1 rifle with guerilla
Memphus says:
but stilll huge difference
Jon says:
ah they said they had a bunch
Memphus says:
not to mention the -25% for all the other units...
Memphus says:
they have 3 other geurilla 2's
Memphus says:
but that is in anotehr stack
Memphus says:
thier front stack is all outdated units
Memphus says:
AKA they are keeping thier new units until after we both bang up
Memphus says:
which includes 5 rifles, and 6 cannons.
Jon says:
ah ok
Jon says:
they want to preserve their combat power
Memphus says:
exactly
Memphus says:
my best guess (not knowing the dynamics which i can't wait to read)
Memphus says:
is they want us to attack you first, you win zero TKY
Memphus says:
they keep all their units.
Jon says:
well they wanted us to fight you at zero
Memphus says:
well you can still keep that promise and capture zero...walk right in.
Jon says:
make it look like you are just retreating to face them
Memphus says:
FYI the reason i am slighly hesistant on TKY this turn, is we get 2 more riles (1 built, and 1 drafted) if we wait until next turn.
Memphus says:
that is currently how i am leaning
Memphus says:
we stay at war this turn
Memphus says:
you walk in at zero
Memphus says:
we kill their first stack.
Memphus says:
they advance their second
Memphus says:
we gift TKY afterwards
Jon says:
well we could time it so our stack gets there
Memphus says:
and then they have now taken a hit in power
Jon says:
peace and open border at the same time?
Jon says:
does that work to avoid pushing a stack back?
Memphus says:
as in our stack?
Memphus says:
yes our units would stay put
Memphus says:
so the timeline to me is:
Memphus says:
1. you capture zero get the gold next turn
Jon says:
our stack i mean
Jon says:
so we could dow cav and hit them right after yours
Memphus says:
you stack will stay
Memphus says:
2. we kill cav stack 1
Memphus says:
3. we gift TKY, go to peace OB
Memphus says:
4. we hit stack #2
Memphus says:
5. you hit stack #2.
Memphus says:
6. cav has nothing left.
Jon says:
we could roll them up fast after that
Memphus says:
ok so that will be my move this turn then for good faith
Memphus says:
i will walk away from zero (and rename it)
Jon says:
well i need to get my team 100% on board
Jon says:
we'd need assurances
Jon says:
full tech cooperation
Jon says:
stuff like that
Memphus says:
walking away from a city is a good start
Memphus says:
oh for sure
Memphus says:
lib can come in the peace deal
Jon says:
well you guys were going to evacuate anyways
Memphus says:
not for sure.
Memphus says:
i could upgrade the LB
Memphus says:
move in 4 rifles
Memphus says:
and try to make a stand
Jon says:
well thats what we assumed anyways since tky w/ globe is worth defending
Memphus says:
true
Jon says:
we attacked because we figured now was when we had leverage
Memphus says:
you certainly do!
Memphus says:
that is why my openign was:
Memphus says:
we can hold both
Memphus says:
but we can swing the game one way or the other.
Memphus says:
TBH I woudl rather you guys beat cav and us come 2nd
Memphus says:
than to see cav win
Memphus says:
them getting MS on one side wasn't so fair (kinda liek us with saturn)
Jon says:
we still have a strong pro cav faction
Jon says:
based on other game relationships it seems
Memphus says:
haha good to knwo you still have participation.
Memphus says:
the game speed picked up and everyoen at sancta who complained all game were then too busy
Jon says:
people coming back now?
Jon says:
nothing like war to stir up a little interest
Memphus says:
no
Memphus says:
they see it as this was planned sicne the game started
Memphus says:
and most want me to jsut bash into you and gift our 4 front cities to cav.
Memphus says:
i however do not like rolling over
Jon says:
haha
Jon says:
well that would be surrendering basically
Memphus says:
i was also tempted to gift TKY to MS at somepoint...
Memphus says:
but they woudl decline.
Jon says:
they are aloof
Memphus says:
this is why i kinda want to see you guys win now.
Memphus says:
you stack (and reinforcements) show me your team grew leaps and bounds from the last attack
Memphus says:
meanign you came with everythign at once and were really ready.
Memphus says:
you could of declared when cav but didn't instead you waited.
Memphus says:
cav's have been favorites all game, so being kingmaker to you would be alot more fun!
Jon says:
well they have treated us as less that equals
Jon says:
so we are ready for a game change
Memphus says:
alright well the game is down, so how about we both post this.
Jon says:
k
Memphus says:
i will fidn away to convince sancta to walk away from TKY.
Jon says:
cool
Jon says:
have a good one
Memphus says:
you too!

 

[damnrunner]

Good info. But I can't help but assume they are lying through their teeth. If we do get TKY the city will remain very vulnerable to a Santca back stab - especially if we do end up at war with Team Cav.

A much more defensible situation would be to have TKY and Dragon Tears. Also does the valley extending north from TKY link up with the rest of Santca's land - or is it another cull-de-sac? I can't tell from past screen shots. Does anyone have intel on this?

However, it looks like we get Zero either way as Sancta is leaning towards abandoning the city. So we can continue to evaluate the situation into the next turn. That is when things get really interesting.

 

[cav scout]

Yeah i don't trust SANCTA in the slightest. The fact they are trying to work us became really obvious towards the end of the conversation. As long as we continue to appear naive they will continue to underestimate us and think they can manipulate us though. I think we should come back with demands they wont agree to but still leave the door open for us to flip in the future. We don't want to close the door completely in case CAV betrays us as far as city gifting etc. The one thing I was troubled by was Memphus saying they will evacuate Zero as a good faith gesture. He basically admitted they were going to evacuate anyways so he is trying to pin us with an obligation to follow through on flipping.

Oh and the valley north of TKY leads to Saturn lands.

 

[damnrunner]

We have agreed to nothing so far if they do pull out. I agree that the dumber we seem the better.

 

[cav scout]

More with Memphus, a treasure trove of info:

Spoiler :

Memphus says:
quick update
Memphus says:
i am close
Memphus says:
they team wants to draft it down to size 6
Memphus says:
and then gift it to you.
Memphus says:
so that is the exact amount of time it needs for you to advance there.
Memphus says:
they are ok with you taking zero this turn.
Memphus says:
staying at war but we will only hit cav.
Memphus says:
we then flip the city
Memphus says:
i also simmed it out.
Memphus says:
all our our culture on a gift is gone
Memphus says:
if you take it by force our culture stays
Memphus says:
you get in inner cross, and then have to build your own culture.
Jon says:
ok cool, so tky in like 4 turns?
Memphus says:
yup maximum
Memphus says:
probably more like 3.
Memphus says:
in time to catch Cav really off guard.
Memphus says:
We can also beeline MT (we have to anyways, we have alot of knights) for tech trading.
Jon says:
we will get it in 3
Jon says:
if we go back to 100%
Memphus says:
we get it in 3 at 70%.
Memphus says:
2 at 100%, but we dont have the gold for that.
Jon says:
cool
Jon says:
do you have alot of beakers in it already?
Memphus says:
we can't research further techs though (like you)
Memphus says:
no none
Memphus says:
we can generate ~1500 beakers a turn at 100%
Jon says:
were about a 1/3 done
Memphus says:
oh shoot
Memphus says:
but any other tech we coudl go for isn't available.
Memphus says:
unless we jsut save gold to upgrade our knights to hit cav with?
Memphus says:
or we coudl go corperation / democracy and go emancipation to mess with Cav, we coudl have it before the end of your GA
Jon says:
well emancipation would jack them up for sure
Memphus says:
by corperation i meant constitution
Jon says:
but would only go that route if we could afford to militarily
Jon says:
sure that we would destroy their stacks
Memphus says:
well constitution is needed for corperation for Assy line...
Memphus says:
but i think we want to keep redcoats in play as long as possible
Memphus says:
not to mention that infantry are 2 pop whips.
Jon says:
drafts you mean?
Memphus says:
yes sorry.
Memphus says:
so is your team close to on board?
Jon says:
well everyone to differing degrees
Memphus says:
i have one naysayer...
Jon says:
some key people havent said anything at all yet
Jon says:
but we operate under silence is consent
Memphus says:
he thinks if we gift TKY, we will go to peace with you for 10 turns, but you will let cav through.
Jon says:
the big hangup on our end is people want more than just zero and tky
Memphus says:
i can understand that.
Memphus says:
but zero and TKY with no fight is also good.
Memphus says:
and TKY as a gift = culutre auto gone
Jon says:
yeah, for me the big thing is the paradigm shift in the alliance dynamics
Jon says:
but with our current leverage chai, zue cha, dragon tears and phoenix have all entered the discussion
Jon says:
and some people doubt you would go after CAV after we flip and just make us fight it out
Memphus says:
we have every reason to go after cav.
Memphus says:
with Astro (which would come from the tech alliance)
Memphus says:
we would load up rifles drafted i nthe east and use our UU to burn all thier coastal cities, or capture them and gift to you as you determined.
Memphus says:
ask G_W
Memphus says:
i became his vassal in an PBEM
Memphus says:
what I commit to will be done, if it make your team feel more at ease, let me know a number of cities to caputre (of cav) or # of troops to send.
Memphus says:
my thinking is we match you troop for troop
Memphus says:
so I need 5 turns (well and steel) to catch up
Jon says:
would be sweet to upgrade all your mounted units and get into their rear areas
Memphus says:
We also have knights in the East that can jump on EIM, or upgrade first) and with circumnav hit their coast fast, with the 3 frigates of yours I have seen that would be enough cover so we wouldn't have to wait building those, feasibly we coudl hit thier east coast in 5 turns.
Jon says:
if we hit them quickly they will have a hard time recovering
Jon says:
well anyways i need to get goin
Jon says:
but i will post and see what everyone says
Memphus says:
ok cool!
Memphus says:
one more alternative
Memphus says:
if you want the culture to go away from zero as well we coudl gift that
Memphus says:
at the same time as TKY
Memphus says:
but you already have culture in the area, so shouldn't be a big deal, not to mention you will get gold.
Memphus says:
actually n/m
Memphus says:
gold is better for you i would think.
Jon says:
well then cav would know something was up to
Memphus says:
and cav would raise thier eyebrow if they didn't see zero fall
Memphus says:
yup exactly
Memphus says:
haha you coudl even tell them you took heavy losses
Jon says:
our stack needs to come to tky to "help" lol
Memphus says:
well it will
Memphus says:
I envision 1 unit going to zero
Memphus says:
and the rest moving W NW, the road shoudl flip to you
Memphus says:
if you get a screenshot and need a road somewhere too, let me know i can build it next turn, i have workers comming in.
Jon says:
ok
Jon says:
i brought some workers too
Memphus says:
so did cav
Memphus says:
but they will lose thier this turn
Memphus says:
FYI i simmed it out. if we hit your first stack we have a 3% chance of killing it
Memphus says:
those odds suck
Jon says:
well we figured as much
Jon says:
we were going to send a split stack again lol
Jon says:
werent
Memphus says:
if it was 25-50% i may have taken it
Jon says:
yeah especially with your rng luck lol
Memphus says:
if you had 2 less units in the stack our odds apprach 30%
Memphus says:
you have exactly the right amount of units.
Memphus says:
hence why i want to see you guys pull ahead, as a tea myou learned.
Memphus says:
sancta didn't
Memphus says:
they wanted more infrastruce, so i listen
Memphus says:
so now a whole bunch of team members need to see what happens.
Memphus says:
but matial law has now been delcared
Memphus says:
which is why if I commit to something in this window, i won't ruin my civ rep on it, so we will follow through.
Jon says:
well thats another thing
Jon says:
balance of power
Jon says:
regarding all your infastructure
Jon says:
you guys could win space down the road
Memphus says:
if the game gets that far
Jon says:
some people are wondering how the end game plays out if we ally with you guys
Memphus says:
after cav, domination limits approach
Jon says:
one idea is we agree to settle it with space
Jon says:
after reaching a sort of balance of power after taking cav down
Memphus says:
that could be cool.
Memphus says:
if you want an infra update:
Memphus says:
we have only science buildings
Memphus says:
no cash
Memphus says:
so if saturn cuts off the cash we stop researching
Jon says:
your gnp is looking really good
Memphus says:
GA, and we are researchign a tech 3 people have
Memphus says:
artificially inflated
Memphus says:
also we are cultural
Memphus says:
but yeah if we ever got some $$ buildings.
Memphus says:
TBH I would be happy to settle on sapce, but i think you guys can win domination.
Memphus says:
after Cav Ms is a joke.
Memphus says:
same with saturn.
Memphus says:
and both of their lands open up...
Memphus says:
Saturn might even hit cav's back door really messing with the game.
Jon says:
yeah their civics would indicate war plans
Memphus says:
TBH our team didn;t listen to krill and I
Memphus says:
they though cav was going to wipe our saturn
Memphus says:
cut off our $$
Memphus says:
then we wouldn't be able to keep up
Memphus says:
so saturn went into a defensive sheel
Memphus says:
but now they are draftign rifles,
Memphus says:
so unless cav has another stack at thier back door...
Memphus says:
but that would mean 3 giant stacks.
Jon says:
well how does saturn fit into the whole equation?
Jon says:
if they go in im sure they want the spoils of what they take
Memphus says:
realistically considering we had to MM some of thier cities...they won't get too far
Memphus says:
but what they will do if force cav to not funnel units from thier back end to thier core
Memphus says:
Saturn basically will head advice from us
Jon says:
cav is going to experience some system shock
Memphus says:
so if we say we need them to attack cav they will
Memphus says:
if we tell to raze the first city then pull back, they will.
Memphus says:
basically saturn jsut became your vassal's vassal
Jon says:
well do you have an agreement with them?
Jon says:
or do they need a seat at the table too?
Memphus says:
we do...but it is really old, hold on i can dig it up
Memphus says:
they are like MS though
Memphus says:
aloof
Memphus says:
tough to get a hold of.
Jon says:
probably low participation
Memphus says:
so a seat would be pushing it, they will miss everything
Jon says:
well if they have freedom of action i'd rather engage them in some sort of discussion vs just waiting to see what they do
Memphus says:
found it
Memphus says:
Article 1: Non-Aggression
It is hereby agreed that we will not attack each other or provide aid, in any form, to anyone fighting any member of the alliance.
Memphus says:
It is hereby agreed that we will cooperate on technology in a generous fashion with eachother.
It is hereby agreed that we will pursue rapid technological advance in good faith – and not attempt to abuse the alliance.
(ie - No member of the Alliance shall stockpile gold at a rate greater than is reasonably necessary for general strategic concerns.)
It is hereby agreed that we will openly and for
Memphus says:
forthrightly share research plans to avoid any duplication of effort and ensure rapid progress.
It is hereby agreed that all technology shall be shared openly, upon request, without regard to beaker value, with eachother.
Memphus says:
It is hereby agreed that if either member of the alliance comes under direct military attack by an enemy power and the other alliance member is NOT under direct (or imminently direct) attack the Alliance member who is not under attack will provide:
150 hammers worth of military aid as soon as possible.
10 hammers per turn* (accruing each turn till balance is paid off by delivery of a military uni
Memphus says:
...basically that is how we can get saturn to attack or not attack cav.
Memphus says:
G_W didn't post it as a file
Jon says:
so will they gift rifles to you?
Jon says:
or the hammers get credited when they attack in support
Memphus says:
yeah it is faster for them to attack so that is how the credit works.
Memphus says:
so that is what i was saying you guys coudl write up for us attacking cav
Memphus says:
that way it is really easy to follow.
Memphus says:
if Saturn could get troops to TKY faster (it would take them 30 turns) then we might have taken the gift....
Jon says:
yeah that makes sense
Memphus says:
so it is up to you (kaz) if you want saturn to have a seat.
Memphus says:
but realistically i see it liek this
Memphus says:
we (sancta) tell saturn we made consessions with kaz to shift the game
Memphus says:
and that they need to stay tuned
Memphus says:
so my next question would be
Memphus says:
they give us all theri gold every turn
Memphus says:
that in turn lets us research
Memphus says:
if we are sharign techs, can we gift only what we discover to them? or can everything funnel to them?
Memphus says:
fyi they are still fighting off barbs....
Jon says:
i hope they dont loose another city!
Memphus says:
haha yeah we had to scout and fog bust for them.
Memphus says:
but i know the bad blood you guys had with them
Jon says:
if they cant handle barbs with the draft...
Jon says:
this will get a good laugh in my forum
Jon says:
"thats why they changed civics!"
Memphus says:
it was one of the reasons...
Memphus says:

Memphus says:
to draft muskets to defend thier outer cities
Jon says:
wow, well i guess they will remember fog busting for the next mtdg
Memphus says:
haha they need more than that...
Memphus says:
ok i gotta run
Jon says:
me too
Jon says:
talk to you later
Memphus says:
later

Memphus seems to be enthused about us flipping. I have to admit it is an intriguing prospect.

 

[damnrunner]

It is. What may be most fun is to back stab them both and kill both sancta's and Cav's stacks!

Imagine all the GGs we would generate!

Then they ally up vs. us and we die. Sweet!