SC03 - Oscillating War for Dummies

Umm... Soul warrior, were we allowed to enter Medieval Era according to our variant rules? What happened there?

dover is retaken by lizzie

Umm... Why are we taking cities rather than razing them? The expenses already killed our research once, I would prefer not to see it happen again.

This is not a "got it", as I won't have time to play this until Sunday or even Monday night, UK time. If anyone wants to jump in and play before then, please do - otherwise I'll post a "got it" just before I'm ready to play.
 
Maksim said:
Umm... Soul warrior, were we allowed to enter Medieval Era according to our variant rules? What happened there?
research finished.
that is why i set science to ZERO.
i think it now says feud will be in 194 turns or somewhere in the hood.



Maksim said:
Umm... Why are we taking cities rather than razing them? The expenses already killed our research once, I would prefer not to see it happen again.
it was taken earlier by TOKU and his gang.
now it is under british control. again.
hope this makes it clearer.

i havent taken ANY cities this turnset.

Maksim, getting ready for tomorrow afternoon are we ;)
just remember that too many :beer: = :vomit:
i just want to see a England VS Brasil final :worship:
 
soul_warrior said:
research finished.
that is why i set science to ZERO.
i think it now says feud will be in 194 turns or somewhere in the hood.

Hmm... But what technology did we research to enter medieval era?

soul_warrior said:
i havent taken ANY cities this turnset.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I guess I was too optimistic.

As for football, beers etc. - well, it is a national pastime, you know. Noblesse obligee or something like that. :)
 
S_W - Finishing the research on Machinery busted the variant if Lizzie still lives!!! :mad:

The prospect of football and beer has clearly addled your wits. :crazyeye: ;)

I am all for playing on, just means we can't use anything unlocked by Machinery until Liz is dead....
 
Hmm... What does Machinery uncover?

Training crossbowmen, building workshops/windmills/watermills?

So we'll be doing none of that, then.

As I mentioned, I'm not likely to get to this before Sunday/Monday night, and I'll post a "got it" when I do, so if you have time to play before then, Bede, please do.
 
I'll have it back to you by Sunday Maksim.
 
Trained up some more troops and sent them south. Changed a lot of projects as we don't need culture or happiness we need troops and cats, lots of them...

Razed an English town and killed some more barbarians.

Just as the force got big enough to do some real damage to the English towns defended by longbows and crossbows the Japanese made a peace deal with England and canceled the Open BOrders agreement. I also made a peace treaty with England and got her World Map and some more cash in the deal.

1775West.jpg


1775Japan.jpg


1775East.jpg


Got the Forbidden Palace started and a couple of settlers for the Inland Sea, one at Heliopolis and another at Pi-Ramses I think. Settle one along the coast south of the western towns and the other on the neck of land west of Heliopolis.

1775.jpg


We may need yet another settler south and west of Heliopolis to protect our access to the south. The Inca are encroaching on our road network to Timbuktu.

We can build galleys on the Inland Sea and ship troops to Liverpool for a further English adventure if we get the opportunity. Taking down anybody's towns are going to need catapults with CR promotions as well as lots of War Elephants. The defenses are getting tougher against our swords and axes.

Barbarians are still active from the NW and in the south, coming with swords, axes and the occasional horse archer. I am pretty sure I cleared the majority of them so there aren't any bogies inside our border.

England occupies the whole SW portion of the landmass. As an alternative we could start to disassemble Toku who is closer to us. He may not give us the choice as I sense he is getting a little crabby.


Spoiler details :

Turn 255 (1725 AD)
Paradise starts building Forge
The Outcasts starts training Spearman
Thebes starts building Forbidden Palace
Memphis starts training Spearman
Elephantine starts training Catapult
Elephantine starts building Lighthouse
Elephantine starts training Worker
Alexandria starts building Barracks
Nubian starts building Courthouse
Liverpool starts building Lighthouse
The Capital finishes Swordsman
Paradise has grown to 12
Thebes finishes Aqueduct
Heliopolis finishes Axeman
Elephantine finishes Hindu Missionary
Pi-Ramesses has grown to 10
Pi-Ramesses finishes Market

IBT
Defending War Elephant defeats (2.24/8) Barbarian Axeman
Defending Archer defeats (2.43/3) Barbarian Archer

Turn 256 (1730 AD)
Pi-Ramesses starts training Spearman
Axeman promoted to Combat I
Swordsman promoted to Combat I
Swordsman promoted to Formation
Hinduism has spread to Paradise
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
The Capital starts training Catapult
Heliopolis starts training Settler
Heliopolis starts training War Elephant
The Capital finishes Catapult
Timbuktu has grown to 12
Timbuktu finishes War Elephant
Heliopolis has grown to 11
Pi-Ramesses finishes Spearman

IBT
Defending Swordsman defeats (3.78/6) Barbarian Horse Archer
Defending Spearman defeats (2.80/4) Barbarian Horse Archer

Turn 257 (1735 AD)
Spearman promoted to Combat I
Spearman promoted to Shock
Hinduism has spread to Heliopolis
The Capital starts training Catapult
Timbuktu starts training Catapult
Pi-Ramesses starts training Catapult

Battle Stats:
Units victorious while attacking : 0
Units victorious while defending : 4
Units defeated while attacking : 0
Units defeated while defending : 0
The Capital finishes Catapult
The Outcasts finishes Spearman
Paradise finishes Forge
Thebes has grown to 11
Memphis has grown to 8

IBT
Defending Swordsman defeats (5.40/6) Barbarian Archer

Turn 258 (1740 AD)
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
Spearman promoted to Combat I
Horse Archer promoted to Combat I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
The Capital starts training Swordsman
Paradise starts training Hindu Missionary
The Capital finishes Swordsman
Timbuktu finishes Catapult
Memphis finishes Spearman
Elephantine finishes Lighthouse

IBT

Turn 259 (1745 AD)
Swordsman promoted to Combat I
Axeman promoted to City Raider I
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
Attacking Axeman loses to Barbarian Axeman (5.00/5)
Attacking War Elephant defeats (5.76/8) Barbarian Axeman
Attacking Axeman defeats (3.50/5) Barbarian Warrior
Axeman promoted to City Raider I
Spearman promoted to Combat I
The Capital starts training War Elephant
Timbuktu starts training Catapult
Memphis starts training Spearman
The Capital finishes War Elephant
Paradise finishes Hindu Missionary

IBT

Turn 260 (1750 AD)
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
War Elephant promoted to Combat II
The Capital starts training War Elephant
Paradise starts training War Elephant
The Capital has grown to 12
The Capital finishes War Elephant
Timbuktu finishes Catapult
Heliopolis finishes War Elephant
Alexandria has grown to 8
Alexandria finishes Barracks
Pi-Ramesses finishes Catapult
Nubian has grown to 3

IBT
Defending Swordsman defeats (4.32/6) Barbarian Longbowman
Defending Swordsman defeats (6.00/6) Barbarian Archer

Turn 261 (1755 AD)
The Outcasts starts training Axeman
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
Swordsman promoted to Cover
Hinduism has spread to The Capital
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
The Capital starts training Hindu Missionary
Timbuktu starts training War Elephant
Heliopolis starts training Settler
Pi-Ramesses starts training Settler
The Capital finishes Hindu Missionary
Memphis finishes Spearman
Elephantine finishes Worker

IBT

Turn 262 (1760 AD)
Spearman promoted to Combat I
The Capital starts training War Elephant
Memphis starts training Swordsman
Elephantine starts building Barracks
Attacking War Elephant loses to English Crossbowman (3.12/6)
Attacking Swordsman loses to English Longbowman (2.40/6)
Attacking Swordsman defeats (1.14/6) English Crossbowman
Attacking Swordsman defeats (3.48/6) English Longbowman
Razed Brighton
The Capital finishes War Elephant
Paradise finishes War Elephant
Liverpool has grown to 2

IBT

Turn 263 (1765 AD)
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
Swordsman promoted to Cover
Hinduism has spread to The Outcasts
The Capital starts training War Elephant
Paradise starts training Catapult
The Capital finishes War Elephant
Timbuktu finishes War Elephant
Alexandria finishes Swordsman

IBT
Defending Axeman loses to Barbarian Axeman (1.00/5)

Turn 264 (1770 AD)
Swordsman promoted to Combat I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
The Capital starts training War Elephant
Timbuktu starts training Hindu Missionary
Alexandria starts training Horse Archer
The Capital finishes War Elephant
The Outcasts finishes Axeman
Paradise finishes Catapult
Thebes has grown to 12
Timbuktu finishes Hindu Missionary
Nubian has grown to 4

IBT
Defending War Elephant defeats (8.00/8) Barbarian Swordsman
Defending Catapult defeats (2.30/5) Barbarian Axeman

Turn 265 (1775 AD)
Axeman promoted to Woodsman I
Attacking Axeman defeats (3.10/5) Barbarian Axeman
Catapult promoted to City Raider I
War Elephant promoted to Combat I
War Elephant promoted to Shock
Hinduism has spread to Alexandria
Catapult promoted to City Raider II
The Capital starts training Catapult
Paradise starts training Swordsman
Timbuktu starts training War Elephant


Maksim - up
 
Got it. Will play tomorrow night. Going against Toku's Samurai is a pretty scary prospect. Elephants are our only chance, so let's hope the AI don't get Pikemen any time soon.
 
Nothing much happened, since our armies were far away, there was a peace treaty with the English recently negotiated, and taking on Toku in his Samurai age seemed unwise. I dropped out of OR/Hinduism, as it weren't making us any friends, but Toku still wouldn't negotiate Open Borders, even though he was at +4 relations.

I built the Forbidden Palace in Timbuktu, as FP only helps with distance costs, and building it in Thebes, so close to our capital, would not have helped much.

The rest of the turn involved just building units. I've also got two new cities founded, one on the lake - it should get to building galleys soon. This will help with the transporting armies.

Overall, I must confess I am filled with ennui at the state of this game. An army of elephants, swordsmen and catapults will likely go obsolete and get slaughtered by anyone we choose to oppose, and the logistics of sending troops halfway around the world mean we can't just pile on reinforcements. This is no short victorious war here - this is a messy affair.

A few tech leaders - Huayna and Gandhi - were able to sell me their World Maps at the beginning of my turn, so they have Paper. Gandhi built Spiral Minaret, so he's had Divine Right for a while.

I remind you that we have no Civil Service, nor Machinery, nor Engineering. What we have is less than 200 turns before the end of the game. Situation looks vaguely bleak - our numerical superiority deters the AI from attacking us, but neither can we do much damage to them.

What has gone wrong? Well, we did make a few blunders, both tactical and strategical.

Taking on Mansa may have been unwise, as we have stretched ourselves across the whole world after finishing him off. What made it only worse was that we took him on in the skirmisher age, and suffered painful losses - this was not my first turnset spent simply moving units to the front. This delayed us significantly, enough to lose our window of opportunity.

What really set the odds against us from the very beginning? It was the map, I believe. The large distances between the civilizations, the difficult terrain, the raging barbarians meant that it was hard to go on the offensive - in fact, the raging barbarians alone meant trouble for us and free experience for the AI.

Is this variant doable? Indeed it is, although the requirement to wage war in the ancient age, pre-swordsmen, catapults and courthouses may be too strict (the first two are needed to take cities without the huge losses we suffered, the last are necessary to keep the economy from going down the drain, as ours did). It will also be beneficial to play a more crammed map, where the AI are closer to both each other and the player. Finally, Epic speed would allow us more turns to get our units to the front, which seems a painful necessity now.

So, what's going to happen to us now? Well, chances are we'll declare war on Lizzy soon (before my next turn), take a city or two, and then either her advanced units or simple attrition will dwindle our forces to nothing. We'll stumble about for a while, maybe get a second expeditionary force going, even take her out if we are lucky.

After that, the rest of the AIs would be so far ahead we wouldn't be able to do much against them. We might get sneak attacked by Toku who'll take a few cities in our western core and will limp to the finish line.

So, what am I missing? Who's got a brilliant plan that will save us all?
 

Attachments

As always your assessment is sound as houses. I felt the same ennui as I passed the save off and for much the same reasons.

I agree that taking on a nation that was about as far away as it could be as our first opponent was a mistake, the second mistake was continuing to fight that war with War Chariots. City Raider axes would have done us much more good. And closing out that war until we could get a sound base going with more knowledge of the map would have done even more.

It was meant to be a challenge and it turned out to be one. I think trying a similiar map, Highlands with Raging Barbs, and the same variant but choosing the Inca with the Quecha might help get us over that early hump in the road.

So in the interest of avoiding ennui let's close this one down. I will start OWFD 2 as soon as some other games finish up.
 
Bede,

If so, may I suggest going with a smaller map/epic speed? The former is going to be necessary for a quecha rush, I think; while the latter would help with troop movement, of which there will be many.

An interesting map to play would be small Lakes - because of the nature of the world, we'd have lots of neighbours, and even if we should take out one or two civs, the others would be able to capitalise on that, so we won't be able to steamroller lesser opponents.

While I really do like the Inca's Aggressive trait, and Financial is nice, I'm quite fond of Kublai (Creative/Aggressive) for this variant, as the former will really help with border pops, which would allow the team to control barbarians better.
 
Just wanted to put my nod in agreement. We made a few big mistakes too early... attacking Mansa so far away was the biggest IMO.

I'd be up to trying this again. I think Bede's got the right idea with Incans. If we could do a Quecha rush when the AI's only got 1-2 cities, and hopefully not much culture...
 
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