Scared to move up in difficulty

[Murphy613]

I always play Civ 5 on Prince, and I always win. The time has come for me to move up in life, but I'm scared. Can someone give me advice on the difference between Prince and King and how to overcome them? (I have all DLCs.)

 

[Monbijou]

I use this Strategy: I pieced together a lot of information from this website to help make my strategy:

Tech order: Science tech first, then back fill in each era with priorities being happiness, growth, wealth, culture, military. Once filled move to next era and repeat. Also I do sometime go fast NC tech, if I am not Wonder Building.

Build order: Growth, Science, Then a three way tie between, culture, money, and military depending on needs. A worker and settler are a must early for happiness and spreading your empire. I try to get a worker from an early war, I like to get mine from an AI over a city state as I like to ally with as many as possible.

The above help me with my jump to prince

 

[Derpy Hooves]

Not that much change really, the AI will still fall behind in tech easily, be massively incompetent in wars, the only times they'll ever manage take something is if they spent most of their time building units (usually focussed warmongers like Shaka, Attila or Genghis, although later on they tend to falter somewhat as the AI still hardly ever annexes anything, while wide empires like Hiawata or Cathy become more dangerous).
Due to the AI getting free pottery though your chances of the Great Library are minimal, as it seems it's a rediculously high priority for them, yesterday on a deity game I even had Askia complete it, who I believe is not supposed to really care about building wonders, just conquering them.
For that matter, until you get to around medieval, assuming you managed to get a tech lead with the national college and such (if you didn't prioritize it yet, do so), don't focus too much on wonders, the AI on King only has to pay 85% of the hammers, so unless you managed to start the wonder a good amount of time earlier then your rivals, you'll probably be missing out.

And if you wheren't doing it already, managing your cities population manually can make a big difference too, managing those speciality slots, getting that bit of extra production out with another worked mine instead of a dye plantation when Shake just declared war on you, or sacking production for more growth when you have a pretty isolated start and want to get your population (which is also your main source of science) up quickly.

As a last note, if you try to play fast and loose like me and have absolutely minimal defensive units up most of the time, try to always have a bit of a cash bank, just enough to buy 2 units, or even to rushbuy that library in your 4th city up when you want to build the national college.

Just follow these basic things and you should be able to go straight for emperor, not that big of a difference in difficulty with king anyway, and after getting used to that a bit you can be playing immortal or deity in no time, its all just a matter of trimming your build more and more until you're left with the bare essentials.

 

[EK834]

I always play Civ 5 on Prince, and I always win. The time has come for me to move up in life, but I'm scared. Can someone give me advice on the difference between Prince and King and how to overcome them? (I have all DLCs.)

Don't be afraid. You might struggle on King at first, more or less depending on your play style on Prince, but you shouldn't get systematically steam rolled. The AI won't be "more clever" than you're already used to, especially in warfare (it will have more units).

On King the AI has modest bonuses. It gets Pottery free at the start (but not all AI will make the most of it by researching Writing, with gives you very good chance to get to it first if you go Pottery-Writing, and to build the Great Library, get Philosophy and build your National College early. On Emperor and above the AI has the other techs that on King it will often prioritize before Writing, making getting the GL extremely difficult or simply impossible). It has only 90% of the unhappiness, it has a 10% growth bonus, it has a 15% production bonus, less expensive units Etc.

The whole values are those:

                S	C	W	P	K	E	I       D
	     	---	---	---	---	---	---	---     ---
DeclareWar	0	75	85	100	100	100	100	100
WorkRate	0	0	0	0       20      50	75	100
Unhappiness%	100	100	100	100	90	85	75	60
Growth%	        160	130	110	100	90	85	75	60
Train%	        175	130	110	100	85	80	65	50
Worldtrain%	160	130	110	100	100	100	100	100
Construct%	160	130	110	100	85	80	65	50
WorldConstruct%	160	130	110	100	100	100	100	100
Create%	        160	130	110	100	85	80	65	50
WorldCreate%	160	130	110	100	100	100	100	100
BuildingCost%	100	100	100	100	85	80	65	50
UnitCost%	100	100	100	100	85	80	65	50
UnitSupp%	0	0	10	20	30	30	40	50
UnitUpgrade%	50	50	50	50	50	50	50	50
Inflation%	100	90	80	80	80	80	80	80
AdvStart%	100	100	100	100	120	135	150	170
PerEraModifier	0	0	0	0	-2	-3	-4	-5
StartSETTLER    1       1       1       1       1       1       1       1
StartDEFUnits	0	0	0	0	1	1	2	2
StartWORKUnits	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	2
StartEXPUnits	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	1
AIBonusTech1	---	---	---	---	Pottery	Pottery	Pottery	Pottery
AIBonusTech2	---	---	---	---	---	A. Hus.	A. Hus.	A. Hus.
AIBonusTech3	---	---	---	---	---	---	Mining	Mining
AIBonusTech4	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	Wheel

The AI behavior on the whole isn't that different on King. Expect it to expand a bit more or get its cities 2-3-4 up faster (as apparently on Prince in BNW it doesn't expand as much as before), because it has the bonus happiness. Expect more units, and to see a few Wonders go earlier than you're used to.

To adapt you have to focus more on growing your capital to increase your science and overcome the AI's small lead as soon as you can (you should have consolidated a lead in tech after you get Education, but it's only an average). Perhaps you already do this on Prince and won't find King much harder. Beware Wonder spamming. On Prince you can get nearly every one without hurting your chances to win, but on King if you go after too many you will neglect something more important to your chosen strategy, or something fundamental like getting units, infrastructure to make you grow, buildings etc. On King you need to start given up everything you don't need. You don't build Petra for just 2 desert tiles, you don't build Terracotta Army if you have a small army and no plan to use the bonus units to wage war soon after. Well, you get the idea... you need a bit more focus and avoid being wasteful as the level is less forgiving than Prince if not quite as punishing for wasted time than Emperor and above.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The best advice I can give is to play your games to conclusion.

If you re roll every time something bad happens, you will learn slowly. Play a game to the end and even if you lose, there will have been a number of new things you experienced and can be prepared for in the next game.

 

[EK834]

Due to the AI getting free pottery though your chances of the Great Library are minimal, as it seems it's a rediculously high priority for them.

That's not as true as it used to be since BNW on King. A lot of AI seem to love Animal Husbandry more than Writing, and Mining if they have luxuries using mines. Few actually prioritize getting Writing as their first tech on King, and often not as their second or third either (a lot of them seem to focus on gaining the "Deity bonus techs" and research Writing fourth, it seems). It's common place on King to meet neighbors who still can't exchange Embassy for Embassy while you're halfway building the Great Library.

It's just better to give it up if you have a bad start for growth and take much longer than usual to research Pottery as your first tech, and whenever you meet someone who can buy Embassy before you have Writing (even though it doesn't mean they are building the GL the risk gets too high they do), if you need to delay Pottery or Writing to get Archery early to defend, if you have poor production tiles and can't get a worker up before you start the GL, so it can either build a mine or chop and most of all build farms to grow while you produce the GL. You might still get it, but the risk becomes much higher to fail and struggle afterward to catch up. Otherwise the GL is easy to get on King, especially if you got +1 pop or even Pottery from a goody hut and if you get culture to gain a second and third SP fast enough, but even with a more "normal" start I think I missed it once in 10 games since BNW, and it was because of a big distraction (I forgot that Casimir had asked to buy Embassy before I got Writing)

Learning to play King without the GL right from the start had the hardest learning curve (at least it was for me), as it was so different from my strategies on the Prince level and it easily got overwhelming. I found it easier to learn to play without it gradually, after spending a while on King, by spotting the conditions in which I couldn't risk starting it and had to research Philosophy.

I quite agree if the goal is to get to play on Emperor and above the sooner you develop and refine start strategies without the GL the better, though.

 

[Scarpa]

Play and lose, it's a lot of fun.

Overall the two main things I would focus on for moving to King is growing as fast as you can and optimizing science. The rest comes naturally after that.

 

[Memoryjar]

Play and loose too.
With time, you'll learn when it's really over.

Think about your capital location. Don't settle automaticaly at the start position. Move, you settler, one or two turn sometimes. Prefer hills.
Build or buy 4 or 5 archers as soon as possible. AI doesn't open war with that around your capital in the beginning of the game. If it declares war, you will have enough to win.

 

[njmfff]

I always play Civ 5 on Prince, and I always win. The time has come for me to move up in life, but I'm scared. Can someone give me advice on the difference between Prince and King and how to overcome them? (I have all DLCs.)

Much like other guys said, AI isn't any different then Prince. They just get slight resource\happiness boost.

You can still grab some Wonders, but I'll suggest you try to avoid them, it will help you move to higher difficulties in a long run.

the only real difference between Prince and Deity is knowing what you are suppose to do. (and minor factor that AI gets two settlers\bigger army on deity right from the start. Details, details...)

Use lower difficulties to practice scouting\teching and building infrastructure. Those are probably the most important things when moving up to Immortal\Deity.

tips on scouting: scout in circles, not in a straight line, so you can get better knowledge of land around you. Tech: focus on techs you need. Don't go first for Calendar if you have no plantation luxuries for example. Infrastructure: build what you need, not everything. If there's enough food\production, you don't need Water Mill. If there's lot of deer\wheat, build Granary asap to boost your growth.

placing cities: that's where scouting comes into play. Spot a good location, with enough production\food\luxuries\strategics. What are it's natural defenses? Is it surrounded by rivers, hills, mountains? Can you place it on a hill to get extra defenses while grabbing enough food\production and luxuries? Can you place one next to a river and mountain while still getting all those?

 

[Derpy Hooves]

That's not as true as it used to be since BNW on King. A lot of AI seem to love Animal Husbandry more than Writing, and Mining if they have luxuries using mines. Few actually prioritize getting Writing as their first tech on King, and often not as their second or third either (a lot of them seem to focus on gaining the "Deity bonus techs" and research Writing fourth, it seems). It's common place on King to meet neighbors who still can't exchange Embassy for Embassy while you're halfway building the Great Library.

It's just better to give it up if you have a bad start for growth and take much longer than usual to research Pottery as your first tech, and whenever you meet someone who can buy Embassy before you have Writing (even though it doesn't mean they are building the GL the risk gets too high they do), if you need to delay Pottery or Writing to get Archery early to defend, if you have poor production tiles and can't get a worker up before you start the GL, so it can either build a mine or chop and most of all build farms to grow while you produce the GL. You might still get it, but the risk becomes much higher to fail and struggle afterward to catch up. Otherwise the GL is easy to get on King, especially if you got +1 pop or even Pottery from a goody hut and if you get culture to gain a second and third SP fast enough, but even with a more "normal" start I think I missed it once in 10 games since BNW, and it was because of a big distraction (I forgot that Casimir had asked to buy Embassy before I got Writing)

Learning to play King without the GL right from the start had the hardest learning curve (at least it was for me), as it was so different from my strategies on the Prince level and it easily got overwhelming. I found it easier to learn to play without it gradually, after spending a while on King, by spotting the conditions in which I couldn't risk starting it and had to research Philosophy.

I quite agree if the goal is to get to play on Emperor and above the sooner you develop and refine start strategies without the GL the better, though.

Yeah I havn't played king for a while, just going from old experiences with GnK and vanilla mostly, these days I tend to either have fun games messing around on prince or just go full out on deity, anything inbetween kind of seems a waste, either I want to be able to build anything I want or have a real challenge.
I imagine it might have to do with civ flavors too though, I.E. Nebuchadnezzar or Sejong would be far more likely to go for writing first then say Attila or Theodora.

 

[reddishrecue]

Well my advice would be to try it out and you could win or lose but try to win. If you lose then try to get a win again. You can lose or win depending on the land you get.

 

[rodrigoq]

My advice.. Screw prince, go full Diety and don't look back.

You will get your ass kicked, ALOT. You will fail frequently. You will even be wiped from the game before Ren era. But you will learn fast, and figure out how to overcome pretty much every situation, that doesn't get thrown at you in lower difficulties.

Then you will get good at Diety, and start getting closer to wins, or just surviving. Then you will start winning, picking and chosing which wins you want, till you get bored enough to start playing God.. Killing and ressurecting civs at will, relocating entire empires because you can. Creating a collection of defeated Civs on a terrible archipelego, so when you win a domininatin victory, you can LOL at your collection of pets, stranded in the ocean/arctic.


It is VERY frustrating to get your ass kicked over and over. Especially when the AI starts with 2 cities, 2 workers, and an army + 6 or 8 free techs... and all you get is a warrior and a settler. Then by time you get out a scout, the AI has scooped up all the ruins, leaving you the scraps, if any.

If you like a challenge, learn to Diety.

 

[anrke]

Meh; I was exactly like you. Played Prince a lot, could always win, just enjoyed the idea of building a new empire every time, and achieving whichever VC I chose to get.

Finally upped it to King last week. Barely noticed the difference, so I only played 1 King game and have now played 3 on Emporer. Won the first three. My first with a culture win, surprised by an aggressive war against me early but soon settled. The second a diplomacy victory still quite easy. The third a science victory, however this had a run-away Germany also aiming for a science victory and was quite close. I'll play another Emporer science victory game to ensure I can get it much faster, and then perhaps go for a domination victory before I step up to Immortal.

 

[EK834]

I imagine it might have to do with civ flavors too though, I.E. Nebuchadnezzar or Sejong would be far more likely to go for writing first then say Attila or Theodora.

I don't have either DLC, so that might explain this in part. A few civs go most times for Writing as first or second but most don't. In my current game I've met 6 civs early. Pocatello, Askia, Hiawatha, Bismarck, Rome went for writing third or fourth, by my guess of when they could offer embassy. Casimir went for it first.

 

[ronjon]

Just upgraded to king from prince myself. Played three games on marathon, 22 civs, each one I have gotten both Great Library and stonehenge, and by renaissance, had easily most wonders, most gpt, most research, most culture, most cities, and biggest pop by far. In all three games just small wars at the beginning to keep other civs from settling near me, and I am not a good player by any means. The small bonuses the ai gets do not yet make up for the fact the ai is still a moron. Because of compressed nature of game under marathon, suspect those bonuses matter more, don't know, still would not be nervous trying to step up if I were you.

 

[Murphy613]

I notice everyone is mentioning the Great Library. I normally don't make it a priority in my games, unless I'm going for a science victory. Should I be going for it more often? Also, could someone give me some pointers for the early game? Like, what do I do first - build an important wonder or get my second city up?

P.S. - I notice the AIs always create Great Works; even civs that don't go for culture victories, ever (like the Mongols). Is there logic behind this, or is it just typical AI stupidity?

 

[jlim201]

You should always build all guilds except for musicians regardless because they give you a tremendous boost to your social policies. Early game, you should use them as Great Works. (this gives you more culture than writing treaties or getting golden ages would). Also Tourism can give you happiness if you make a bad ideology decision. Late game, POP them.

The AI is half smart for doing this, because half the game they are being smart, the other half not.

A question for everyone else: Is the jump from king to emperor hard?

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

I stopped building the great lib when I moved up to emperor, it's fairly standard practice (to get ready for immortal). It is possible to build on emperor, but I found the early game flows alot more smoothly without it.

As any civ except Poland, my early game is usually scout>scout>scout (pangea, unless I'm on a peninsula)>worker>shrine depending on terrain>granary (maybe this is a bad idea?)>settler x3> library>oracle>national college

I go tradition, hit monarchy when I start building cities, get landed elite soon after I'm finished building them, and get aristocracy in time to help with the national college. With Poland, I dip into liberty and get aristocracy before legalism to help with building settlers and oracle/nc as per tommynt's Poland guide.

Try timing a golden age with completing the world's fair, with two great writers in stock. Eight turns later, use them for treatise for enough culture for 3-4 instant social policies.

As for great works, it could be a sample bias. AFAIK, you don't get a notification when the AI uses his GWAM for a golden age or treatise, so all you can see are the great works they have in their cities. Also, I have often seen great musicians walking around unescorted trying to get into concert positions while the civ in question is at war. Only Dethklok could get away with that and live.

A question for everyone else: Is the jump from king to emperor hard?

It is, in fact, the smallest step up in difficulty. You might not even notice any change.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

I notice everyone is mentioning the Great Library. I normally don't make it a priority in my games, unless I'm going for a science victory. Should I be going for it more often? Also, could someone give me some pointers for the early game? Like, what do I do first - build an important wonder or get my second city up?

P.S. - I notice the AIs always create Great Works; even civs that don't go for culture victories, ever (like the Mongols). Is there logic behind this, or is it just typical AI stupidity?

The great library can be fantastic if you manage to build it, which according to other people is still very doable on king, make sure you can spend the free tech on something good, I personally tend to go for philosophy, so make sure you have the prequisite techs for it before it finishes, getting philosophy early also means an early national college, which should send your science skyrocketing even more (make sure you have a library in all your cities, and don't found a city while it's still building).

Build order wise, unless you're playing archipelago, always start off with a scout, possibly even 2 if you're playing Shoshone or are on a large pangea map or such that requires a lot of scouting and has a lot of ruins.
Then get a worker or a settler, I usually go for a worker first, then cut down forests while building the settler to speed it up significantly (make sure you have mining so you can chop forests).
If you're planning on getting the great library, start that after the settler, just get a normal library if not, if you need a couple turns to finish the technology, temporarily build something you're gonna get anyway, like a granary, switch over to the GL and then finish the granary afterwards.

Make sure you save your cash until you have enough for another settler, I usually get my 2nd settler this way, although money from CS, ruins, selling resources and such influences this a lot, buying settlers is better then building them, your city won't grow when you're building settlers.

After that it all depends on what direction you want your game to go, if you want to hoard wonders, I'd advice the Oracle, Temple of Artemis if you still can and want to go for more or a science then social policy approach, otherwise, work boats, archers, shrines or even settlers, whatever your situation demands, you also might want to get a monument somewhere early on if you're not planning on using traditions legalism for it (which I strongly advise you to do, at the moment tradition is hands down the best early game policy choice).

The main points about the great works of writing got explained already, but I'd like to add that it gives extra XP (10 IIRC) to units built there, which makes the mongol horde creating them make a lot more sense.

 

[Novalia]

Happiness problem is generally the only obstacle going from prince to king. It's easily managed but its probably the biggest difference. The AI still doesn't make many units on king. But if you don't make ANY units you'll get attacked.

My best advice is to not build any wonders at all except maybe the oracle. Focus on building infrastructure like granaries and water mills, workers, settlers... Get your trade routes up, build some units.

Tech smartly. Research your luxuries and strategics... Hook them up and sell for gpt ASAP. You want to try to delay the first GA until you have more tiles working for you. Tech yourself to philosophy and build the NC ASAP even if you have to buy a library in that low production expo. Then get yourself to civil service then education. Leave the bottom half of the tree starting with iron working until later. This has the added benefit of getting more science from your trade routes as the AI will always tech down there giving them more techs than you thus more science for you from trade routes.

On king once you get to education it's pretty much over.. You'll leap so far ahead from there you'll simply have to decide which victory path you want to take.

If the AI does attack you just weather the storm then counterattack. They don't build many units so as soon as you see them backing off follow them and sack their capital. Early on focus on archers... Tech construction to upgrade to CB. Don't try to counterattack with lowly archers.

Once you get to education you have to choose what next tech to research. Whatever gets you into renaissance before your next social policy because you want rationalism next. After astronomy or acoustics you want to get down to machinery for crossbows. At that point you should start you first war and take someone out.

If you want to continue fighting tech down to artillery and wipe everyone out along with cavalry. After that its cake.